yet another, no start post on 700xj

PLEASE NOTE this is Page 2 of thread.
I just re-seated every connector behind the headlight the other day. i did not see any fuses in there. I also scraped them before i re-seated them.

From this: "
2. Verify 12V during cranking. Set the meter to DC Volts. Put the red meter probe to the Red/White terminal at the TCI box (with the TCI box connected). Put the black probe to the Black terminal at the TCI. With the ignition on, this should read 11.5 to 13 volts or so. Crank the engine. This should not drop below 10V or so.

2a. Low or no voltage before cranking: Bad fuse box, bad ignition fuse, Run/Stop switch bad or off, bad ignition switch (key)." Where is the ign. fuse? the 25A one in the fuse holder next to the battery?

0 ohms on run, only .3 ohms on stop. that's not right. but what can i say. i have Batt Voltage at all the right places, on the connectors to the start/stop, at the s/s, at the TCI. ground is connected at all the black wires. i reseated all the connectors again. i'm stumped again.

can anybody tell me what the round electric thing is next to the 25A fuse holder under the seat? one thing that threw me is my battery charger was only putting out 11V on trickle. i had to put it on 40A charge to get the full 13V. wasted yet more time on that, trying to find a V drop that didn't exist.

 

round thing i think is starter relay.

this page: http://web.archive.org/web/20071217...es.com:80/MotorCity/Speedway/7795/ignman.html
says ohms at pick up coil should be 700 ohms but both of mine (with the connector at the TCI disconnected) read 115 ohms. should i be measuring with the connector plugged into the TCI?

 

Do yourself a favor and buy a brand new battery......had a similiar problem......little or no spark......I replaced with new. ...it started right up.......TCI rarely the problem

 

i'm sorry for not mentioning this in the OP but my battery from pacific power batteries or whatever, is only a year old. i just have been wearing it out trying to start this pig. It can't be bad already i dont think. but you might be right, i should probably at least take it down there and ask them why its only at 11V. i'm on my way right now.

 

You can get brand new batteries that are weak, age doesn't really matter.

 

This ^^^
Just this spring I had a bad one right out of the box, they load tested it, affirmed it was bad and replaced it.

 

Once a battery sulfates from sitting around from non-use and not being on a tender from day to day .......they are pretty much junk.......sulfating destroys them....they will never hold a correct charge especially during the starting or cranking process when needed the most to fire the TCI & plugs.....

 

my battery is still good.. for the time being anyway. the meter i was using (paid about $15 for it) didn't measure the Vdc accurately! With my fluke its at 13V after bringing it back from the battery store. But even with my charger on it wont even try to spark. My prior post about the 115 ohms at the pick up coil's connector on the TCI is what i'm wondering about because the link (Post #22), says it should be 770 ohms. Is that right?. Both measures the same, 115 ohms, both disconnected AND connected, from black to orange and black to grey. I know the value is off, but i doubt BOTH pick up coils would read the same unless they were both working right as i cant see both going bad at the same time. Just hoping to get a proper resistance reading for these pick up coils as that's the only thing i can think of right now. I guess i should have checked from orange to grey?

 

Along with the FSM or Haynes manual this is the best source of information:

http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/the-information-overload-hour.27544/

"XJ700-X water-cooled models:

Pick-up coils:
120 ohms +/- 20% = 96 ohms to 144 ohms acceptable range"

That is a good resting voltage, but what is most important is what it maintains when providing the starter the high current. Now that you have a good meter, check the battery voltage when the bike is cranking and make sure it stays above 9.5V, and preferably higher. Check the voltage on the battery terminals and not the battery post just to be sure the connections are solid.

Most battery "chargers" are only able to deliver low levels of power and are not near enough to meet the demand for the starter.

 

ok it's been over a month. i have taken my bike to a backyard mechanic who did everything i did and said it was the tci. i bought a used, non tested one off ebay and it did not work. i bought another used, non tested one off of ebay and it did not work.
Tonight, i just picked it up cause he gave up. What are the chances all three tci's are bad? i don't know. but when i told the guys son how my bike acted the last time i drove it, he said that sounded exactly the same as his honda CBR the last time he drove it and went all thru it just like me and it turned out to be the silver heat sink this side of the tci, which is the Regulator/Voltage rectifier. anybody think this could be my issue? any way to test w/o it running?

 

test the diodes in the rectifier with your meter

test whites to red and black both directions with diode test function

 

well bro, i appreciate the post, but i just bought a so called 'tested' one off ebay for $9 + shipping. now i want to get it in there and then see if i need to find a 'tested' TCI. i have about 11 days to send the first tci back to the seller. if it works i might just sell it myself as a known good unit. this blows. i never got a call back to take it up to the shop in bellingham like they told me they would back in june.

 

Have you thought about sending your TCI's to someone to have them tested on a known good running XJ700....

I am sure there is someone out there to help you out. It is an easy plug and play test

 

Highly unlikely, but getting one of them tested as fiveofakind suggested in not a bad idea.

So do this:

1. Verify battery is fully charged with a resting voltage of at least 12.6V
2. Remove the side stand relay, this has been suggested several times but I don't see where it has been done.
3. Turn the key "ON" and attach the DMM positive probe to the R/W wire at the TCI, attach the DMM negative probe to the black wire at the TCI, what voltage do you have?
4. Engage the starter while still monitoring the above voltage, what voltage do you have?

You will also need to revisit this and don't trust the shop. You need to get a reading on each secondary, and if not determine if you have bad parts or operator error that caused it.

I would also be thinking about a new set of plugs as yours may be fouled from improper choke or no spark.

 

Just thinking out loud here but I would check the ground connections. I've read about all the tests you have done which is good but even if you have power where you're supposed to without a ground it's a mute point

 

That is why he needs to check the TCI voltage at the TCI. Any anomaly in the ground or high side will show up as a low voltage.

 

Thanks to all. Five, the best plug and play test i could think of would be somebody elses XJ700!! Anybody live around Bellingham or Everett and want to let me bring my 3 tci's down there?
Rooster i will do as you said and Chit as far as grounds go, yes i have checked and refreshed what grounds i could find in and around the battery and tci. And as far as the side stand relay goes, i did jump that stupid thing out, and thereby was another strange occurance, the bike started right up!! (this is old news tho), then ran till i turned it off for about ten minutes, i never rode it, every day for three days thereafter i turned on the key and started it and it started. Then on about the fourth day I got all my gear on, went out to start it again and the damned thing wouldn't start.

I will get my volt meter out and do Roosters test again first chance i get and get back to you. My bike is still on the trailer, i was thinking about taking somewhere as soon as i find a somewhere to take it to. For some reason i have been fixated on Bellingham and forgot all about Everett, as city ten times the size and just as close. But now, i just want to wait for the regulator to get here and see what happens first. Of course if i get anywhere with these tests I wont have to.

 

You either have the worst luck in the universe, or it's not the TCI.
I'm betting on the latter.

Stop taking it to other people to work on (unless it's another XJ enthusiast). Nobody else will be as thorough as you, and you're already 0/1 when it comes to professional help. Very few techs that know how to work on 80's machines are still in the business.

 

You may have to mail your TCI's to somebody here on this forum to have them tested on their good running bike.....instead of you driving the bike to them.....

Place your trust in the people here on this forum

Start a thread for TCI tester for your XJ700.....if you get a taker...fine....mail them to him...

I agree with k-moe..... I bet your TCI's are good

 

Send the whole bike to Matti. You can trust Matti.