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Smoother shifting mod....

Discussion in 'XJ Modifications' started by LarryMc, Nov 19, 2017.

  1. LarryMc

    LarryMc Active Member

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    I had an issue with my shift shaft spring snapping on me, replaced all three springs associated with the mechanism, an easy fix. While waiting for my new springs to arrive, I did a small modification to the shift star detent thing.
    This is a modification that is regularly used on the Yamaha 650 Banshee to fix missed shifts and provides effortless operation.
    I'm surprised at what a difference this has made on smoothing out the shifting characteristics of my XJ550 Seca. It'
    nothing to get excited about, its just a noticeable change or improvemen.
    The bearing I used is 2mm smaller than the stock sized detent roller (washer). It is off a R6 shifter that one of my parts bikes. It fits perfectly into the shift star valleys and is attached with grade 8 hardware. The nut that secures everything was permanently tacked.
    It happy with the way it shifts now... 2017-11-19 15.03.07.jpg
    Factory set up
    20171119_150439.jpg
    Modified set up
     
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  2. lostboy

    lostboy Well-Known Member

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    Do you have the part number?
     
  3. xHondaHack

    xHondaHack Active Member Premium Member

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  4. LarryMc

    LarryMc Active Member

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    Sorry, I don't have a part number as the bearing was cut off the shift star lever of a wrecked 2007 R6 that I'm using for parts on another project.

    Yes, I'm guilty of copying the Factory Pro kit. There are several other companies selling the kit as well along with different modified shift stars. The bearing seats nice into the star lower segments but I polished the upper segments of the star with a small buffing wheel, just because. I pulled the cog wheel off the shift drum to do this with it in place on the bike.
     
  5. LarryMc

    LarryMc Active Member

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    More pictures for clarification:
    20171121_165335.jpg 20171121_165326.jpg 20171121_165306.jpg
     
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  6. LarryMc

    LarryMc Active Member

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    20190504_135512.jpg 20190504_135858.jpg 20190504_140004.jpg

    These are the changes made when installing an R6 bearing on the shifter pawl.
    The spacer is required for correct alignment of the bearing on the shifter drum star detents or valleys. When aligned correctly, the bearing fits into the "star detent valley" perfectly. Naturally, the bearing travels around the shifter star much easier. It has more of a footprint than the stock configuration so engagement into gear is positive, always.
    Smooth as butter shifts, no false neutrals or missed gears 99% of the time. A worthy modification and definite upgrade, for sure. All newer bikes benefit from this design.
    Someone should manufacture these things for other forum members wanting this upgrade.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
  7. Colin 85 700

    Colin 85 700 Active Member

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    Uuh, the purpose of this spacer?
     
  8. LarryMc

    LarryMc Active Member

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    Someone asked for clarification on this modification I did over a year ago. Since I have my engine removed while doing a 600cc top end swap it was a no-brainer to post some pictures.
    I posted the pictures without text. Doh!
    I haven't been on here for over a month and I'm out of practice
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
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  9. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Merged with the original thread. Permanant redirect too for those who bookmarked on their computer.
    I also made the original a sticky.
     
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  10. Colin 85 700

    Colin 85 700 Active Member

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    Thats mint! :)
     
  11. xtmag

    xtmag Member

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  12. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    added spacer goes on motor side of torsion spring so its not any parts of oem set up.
    stop lever assembly is stock for the 550 with the bearing from a R6 stop lever assembly attached to 550 part.

    just as a note I do not think any parts from R6 were used except the roller after it ws removed from r6 assemblly
     
  13. chacal

    chacal Moderator Moderator Supporting Vendor Premium Member

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    That is correct.
     
  14. xtmag

    xtmag Member

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    I see that now, makes sense!
    Anyone else done this? Good improvement?
    Plenty of parts on eBay for this.
     
  15. dkavanagh

    dkavanagh Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    So, the bearing is part of part #7 in the diagram?
     
  16. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    yes you take the bearing from the part 7 and install on 550 part.
    I would think with the measurements of the 550 washer bearing one could find a suitable bearing to use in a catalog loke granger or mcmaster carr
     
  17. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    The engineer in me is wondering whether it is the reduced rolling resistance on the detent roller because of the use of an actual bearing, or the 2mm smaller diameter of the detent roller itself that is providing the "improvement" in shifting feel/operation. Granted, the bearing will move much more freely under load than the stock roller with its "pin thru a hole bearing" BUT is the load such that it (a more freely rotating detent roller) really matters? Or is the smaller diameter of the roller the true improvement and having a bearing there is overkill? Does having a smaller diameter detent roller create the need for a true bearing due to the load placed upon it compared to the larger roller? Since the R6 is directly evolved from the XJ550, one has to wonder why Yamaha made this change, was there an issue they were trying to fix? Did FJ600s or other in-between models have a problem with the detent roller or its pin wearing excessively? Or did they reduce the size of the roller to improve shifting and discovered the need for a bearing?

    An interesting experiment might be to simply reduce the detent roller diameter on a stock part and see what the results are.

    Just wondering aloud; any time we try to out-think the Yamaha engineers it is often a good idea to look at all aspects of the issue.
     
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  18. chacal

    chacal Moderator Moderator Supporting Vendor Premium Member

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    Good questions, Fitz, although Yamaha pretty much went to the bearing style roller on many later model bikes.

    BTW, we have these available as a pre-assembled, ready-to-install unit for both the 550's and the bigger 650-900 models, too:

    HCP26910 OEM modified shifter lever shaft PERFORMANCE PAWL ARM, this is what operates the shifter drum star segment. This is a used original arm that has a later-style R6 roller bearing installed in place of the stock “metal washer roller”, and provides for a much more improved, positive shifting feel, reducing both shift pedal effort and missed shifts. This very easy-to-install upgrade comes complete with installation instructions. For use on all XJ550, 1984-85 FJ600, 1984-90 XJ600 Euro, 1986-87 FZ600, 1986-90 YX600 Radian, and 1981-82 SR185 models. NOTE: a $ 15.00 core charge applies to this item, and a re-usable, same-model arm must be returned for the core charge to be refunded. NOTE: "re-usable" means it is complete and has not been physically damaged, bent, or chewed up in any way. NOTE: while you are “in there” performing this installation, we recommend replacing the 3 springs involved (2 torsion springs and the one linear spring) since this is the ideal time to do so. Also, if your 1981-82 model XJ550 has not already been upgraded to use the larger HCP26889 torsion spring-with-collar unit, we strongly recommend that you do so while you have things apart.


    HCP26911 OEM modified shifter lever shaft PERFORMANCE PAWL ARM, this is what operates the shifter drum star segment. This is a used original arm that has a later-style R6 roller bearing installed in place of the stock “metal washer roller”, and provides for a much more improved, positive shifting feel, reducing both shift pedal effort and missed shifts. This very easy-to-install upgrade comes complete with installation instructions. For use on all XJ650, XJ700, XJ750, and all XJ900RK, RL, N/FN, and F models. NOTE: a $ 15.00 core charge applies to this item, and a re-usable, same-model arm must be returned for the core charge to be refunded. NOTE: "re-usable" means it is complete and has not been physically damaged, bent, or chewed up in any way. NOTE: while you are “in there” performing this installation, we recommend replacing the 3 springs involved (2 torsion springs and the one linear spring) since this is the ideal time to do so. Also, if you have a 1980-81 XJ650, 1982 XJ650RJ Seca, XJ650 Euro, 1981-82 XJ750 Seca, and XJ750 Euro model, and have not already upgraded to the larger HCP5143 torsion spring-with-collar unit, we strongly recommend that you do so while you have things apart.
     
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  19. 50gary

    50gary Active Member

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    ..also the disc is very narrow compared to the much wider bearing thus less psi along with the much freer rolling action of the ball bearing, and smaller dia.
    all aspects point to a much smoother, more accurate shifting experience.
    To quote Ted Nugent "Overkill is Good". Over at the CX500 forum when I mentioned what my modifications were a guy said to me "that's too much overkill"
    Cheers, 50gary
     

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