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17 digit VIN mystery!

Discussion in 'Hangout Lounge' started by AliMac, Jan 21, 2018.

  1. AliMac

    AliMac New Member

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    Hi All - I’m new to this site so hopefully have posted this in the right section ;-)....
    Ok... I recently picked up a XJ650 Special (Maxim) project bike...
    I’m trying to establish the year of manufacture. The frame ID is 4L6-003866... (although oddly enough, the only stamps on the crankcase are 4L6 (then blank)...
    Anyhow, I have spent a large chunk of today researching some very informative pages on XJBikes - particularly the long section about the rules & conventions of the “shorty” VINs and the 17-digit VINs (a fantastic resource - very well written ).
    All this made good sense and after reading, I believe I am right to conclude that my 650 is an XJ650 Special manufactured in 1980 for the Japanese market.
    *However* (and here’s the weird thing), when I enter 4L6003833 into the “XJ Shorty VIN to Full VIN” converter (XJBikes link to dissingermoto) it does its algorithm thing and tells me that my full VIN is
    JYA5K5001BA003866 which is baffling because I believe that K5K was actually the Frame ID for the USA bound XJ550H Maxim!
    I’ve studied it all really carefully and believe that my full VIN should probably be one of the following (depending upon whether manufacturing date is 80, 81 or 82):
    JYA4L6005AA003866 (1980)
    JYA4L6003BA003866 (1981)
    JYA4L6001CA003866 (1982)
    Apologies if I’ve rattled on a bit - I’ve done my best to keep the detail as succinct as possible!

    If anyone thinks they may be able to shed a little light on this conundrum - your comments would be appreciated :)
    Many thanks - Al
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
  2. hogfiddles

    hogfiddles XJ-Wizard, Host-Central NY Carb Clinic Moderator Premium Member

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    COUNTRY: JAPAN

    MODEL NAME: XJ650 Special
    STREET NAME: 1981 XJ650 Special
    MODEL ID CODE: 10H
    FRAME ID: 4L6
    SERIAL NUMBER STARTS AT: 050101
    NOTE: styling the same as North American XJ650 Maxim model.
     
  3. hogfiddles

    hogfiddles XJ-Wizard, Host-Central NY Carb Clinic Moderator Premium Member

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    I think there was something about the dissinger program that people said to not use it til it's Corrected.
     
  4. AliMac

    AliMac New Member

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    Many thanks Hogfiddles :)
    Mine must be a 1980 with frame / model ID 4L6 / 4L6 as my serial no is 003866 and the 1981 serial numbers start at 050101....
    Incidentally, has anyone ever come across a crankcase like mine where the only reference is the frame ID... (without serial number)? Just wondered if this was a fairly common Yamaha practice (or hiccup;-)....
    Thanks
     
  5. hogfiddles

    hogfiddles XJ-Wizard, Host-Central NY Carb Clinic Moderator Premium Member

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    That was often the practice for factory-replacement parts. That way the owner could replace an engine, or a frame without totaling a bike. It's stamp the old number onto the new part. I have two or three replacement frames, but have never been able to get a factory-replacement engine.....yet
     
  6. AliMac

    AliMac New Member

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    Intriguing... so it’s possible (likely) that this is not the bike’s original engine but a factory replacement..(?). No history with the bike, but if I’m lucky, it’s likely to have done fewer miles than another ‘80 bike still on its first engine! ;-)
     
  7. hogfiddles

    hogfiddles XJ-Wizard, Host-Central NY Carb Clinic Moderator Premium Member

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    Possible
     
  8. TheCrazyGnat

    TheCrazyGnat Well-Known Member

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    Any idea what that problem might be? I haven't seen anything pop up, but I haven't been terribly active either lately.
     
  9. hogfiddles

    hogfiddles XJ-Wizard, Host-Central NY Carb Clinic Moderator Premium Member

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    Nope--- probably a formula typo
     
  10. TheCrazyGnat

    TheCrazyGnat Well-Known Member

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    OK, well, please let me know if you come across it again, or think of it. I try to run all VIN's I see on CL, Ebay, etc. when I come across them, just to make sure it is working. I haven't run into any issues myself. Thanks!
     
  11. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I use chrome for a browser this is what I get with shorty vin
    World Manufacturer Identifier:

    J = Japan, Y=Yamaha, A= Motorcycle

    Vehicle Characteristics

    4L600 = 1980 XJ650 Special Japan

    Check Digit:
    1

    Model Year:

    A = 1980

    Assembly Plant:

    A = Iwata City Production Facility

    Serial Number:

    003833 is the Serial Number.

    Your Full VIN Numer is JYA4L6001AA003833

    thing to remember is bike is 1980 so it may have only been a short vin to start with
     
  12. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    from http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/tech-topic-model-id-and-vins.14577/

    "
    Before we get down to deciphering a VIN number, let's take a brief step back in time, and recognize that prior to 1981, there was no real set standard for how VIN numbers had to be assigned.....in other words, the VIN Numbers used (by any vehicle manufacturer) prior to 1981 was more-or-less an internal-use number, and could be conjured up in whatever way struck a manufacturer's fancy and served their internal needs.

    Starting in the late 1970's, with the proliferation of manufacturers, vehicle production volumes, and international sales, a solution to the "VIN dilemma" was suggested by the International Standards Organization (outlined in ISO Standard #3779, for the ultra-curious), and this standard was adopted and required to be used by all manufacturers that sold vehicles into the USA by the National Highway Traffic Saftey Administration (NHTSA) as of 1981. This is when the familiar, still-used-today 17-position VIN number came into use, and similar structured VIN formats were also adopted by Canada, the European countries, and many other countries around the world.

    Prior to 1981, manufacturers could use a VIN number length of their choice, and Yamaha was no exception in this regard. In fact, because of the difficulty encountered with implementing this required 1981 changeover, Yamaha (and some other manufacturers) were granted a 9-month "stay of execution" for their 1981 model-year offerings, where they could still use their older (shorter) version VIN numbers to identify their products."
     
  13. TheCrazyGnat

    TheCrazyGnat Well-Known Member

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    I am getting the same thing that XJ550H is getting when I enter in that shorty.

    Well, I was about to say that I had no idea what could have caused the issue, and that the default is to just say that the vehicle characteristics are not recognized, but I didn't have the default set on the switch statement on the site for some reason. I have remedied that and added a line under the shorty VIN explaining that "Note that motorcycles manufactured on or before 1981 may only have a shorty VIN."

    Since the 5k5 is the first clause in the case statement, it probably defaulted to that after encountering something unexpected.

    Sorry for the inconvenience.
     
  14. AliMac

    AliMac New Member

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    Thanks all for your time and input. Good to know for sure my xj is a 1980 model. I hope to get it into my garage in a few weeks time to start the recommissioning process. Will keep you in the proverbial loop ;-) Cheers Al
     
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  15. AliMac

    AliMac New Member

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    4L6 - 003866
     

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  16. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Al are you in Dover someplace in UK?
     
  17. AliMac

    AliMac New Member

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    Yep - St Margarets at Cliffe - a village on the white cliffs very close to Dover. You in the area too?
     
  18. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    nope US based,
     
  19. AliMac

    AliMac New Member

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    Not too far then ... Good job there’s this internet thingymcjiggy
     
  20. MattiThundrrr

    MattiThundrrr Not a guru

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    Yeah, xj fanatics are WORLDWIDE!!
     

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