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1982 xj650rj SECA

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by XJ650SECATAY, Dec 24, 2017.

  1. XJ650SECATAY

    XJ650SECATAY Member

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    Yes, I had the clutch pulled in, i was in neutral. however, the bike does not have a side stand relay or side stand switch. we just jumped the sidestand switch.
     
  2. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    if you pulled or do not have the side stand relay (be cirtain) you do not have to worry about the side stand switch.
    oil light is supposed to come on when starter button is pushed to test the light bulb

    jump across the solinoid to see if starter works. when you turn on the key do you hear a click (starter cutoff relay)
    if your oil light comes on it could just be your solinoid is bad
     
  3. XJ650SECATAY

    XJ650SECATAY Member

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    I know we don't have the side stand relay, so we just jumped the switch entirely. We will have to try jumping the solenoid as well! however, we did not hear a click when we turned the key.
     
  4. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    the bike will run without the sidestand relay remove the jumper wire

    The Ultimate Relay, Switch, Sensor, and Diodes Guide

    Sidestand (kickstand) switch:
    - twist the two (or three, depending on the model) wires together and ground them. Grounding the wires is the only way to complete the circuit that activates the sidestand switch relay.

    Sidestand (kickstand) relay:
    - unplug the safety relay which disables the whole bloody mess but DO NOT leave it that way, fix it right!

    XJ650RJ Seca and XJ750 Euro models:

    NOTE: according to the factory XJ650RJ Seca service manual supplement, both the headlight relay and the sidestand relay are under the tank---this is wrong!

    It also shows that the ignition cut-off relay is below the TCI?---this is also wrong!

    Flasher: near the steering headpipe, on right side frame rail, under the right side ignition coil.
    Flasher canceller: under the rear of gas tank.
    Starter motor solenoid/relay: on right hand side, attached to and behind the battery box.
    Starter/Ignition cut-off relay (no color): on 650RJ and 650 Euro models, located behind self-canceller, under rear of tank (note: the drawing and the description in the service manual is wrong).
    Sidestand (kickstand) relay (blue): behind the flasher relay, under the front of the tank.
    Headlight relay (yellow): behind the left frame side cover, on the plastic regulator-rectifier mounting plate. (note: the drawing and the description in the service manual is wrong).
    Diode block: inside the headlight housing.
    Neutral switch: in a hole in the bottom of the crankcase, just "outside" of the oil pan, on the bottom of the engine, up inside a recessed "well".
     
  5. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    The ignition/ starter cutoff realay is located under the rear of the fuel tank on the left, and has no color dot on the relay side of the connector. If it is not clicking when the key is turned on, then you either aren't getting power to the relay, or the realy is faulty (or you've misidentified it as being the sidestand relay)
    If you're going by the service manual for relay locations, it has several errors. Use this guide instead
    the-ultimate-relay-switch-sensor-and-diodes-guide.27543
     
  6. XJ650SECATAY

    XJ650SECATAY Member

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    I jumped the solenoid today. She cranked over; however, I am not getting any spark.
    I found a how-to video on youtube that included some very helpful tips on diagnosing this problem.
    I purchased a multimeter to start tracing where the problem could be coming from, but I am fairly new to this, so if anyone has suggestions, I am all ears!
    Thanks!

     
  7. XJ650SECATAY

    XJ650SECATAY Member

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    I did a number of electrical tests. I back tracked all the way from the ignition coils to the pickup coils using the multimeter and a 12v circuit tester. the ignition coils and pickup coils all tested with good resistance; however, I was not able to pick up on any connection using the circuit tester. I tested the circuits while jumping the solenoid and holding the clutch lever in. I'm sure there are a lot of connections being interrupted because of the used harness, but with my low skill set, trying to diagnose electrical problems is not an easy task. I don't have a sidestand relay, so I'm going to start there, but I am open to all other suggestions!
    Thanks!
     
  8. Taylo105

    Taylo105 Active Member

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    Do you want/need a sidestand relay? I’m pretty sure I still have mine off of my Seca. As well as a few other electrical parts if needed
     
  9. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    not having a sidestand relay is not a problem , when you remove the sidestand relay it bypasses the sidestand switch
     
  10. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    lets take a walk through.
    with key on
    start at ignition fuse 12 volts at fuse output?
    then the red/white wire runs to the run/kill switch 12 volts at the connector for the run switch and 12 volts on and off at the connector for the switch?
    recap constant 12 volts on 1 red/white wire ,switchable 12 volts at other red/white wire with run switch ,12 volts in run position nothing in off position.
    switchable red/white wire then runs to oil light and to starter cutoff safety relay .
    do you have 12 volts at the starter cutoff relay in and out ?
    do you have 12 volts at the TCI red white connection and both ignition coils red/white ? this is all from the input side wire to starter cutoff relay.

    do you have 12 volts at the solinoid red/white wire? this is from output side of starter cut off relay.
    do you have 12 volts at the blue/white wire running from solenoid to starter switch ?
    it will be less than the red/white wire in the same connector
    .this is also where the oil light comes back to connect to the blue white wire.
    it goes to diode block as a B/R wire then out of diode as L/w Blue/white to solinoid.

    so when you press the starter button what happens? does oil light come on and starter spin or solinoid click?


    MOST important is that your battery be fully charged because if it drops below 10 volts while starter is cranking you do not get spark.

    that is the entire run of the ignition fuse

    there are a few more tests
    do you get 12 volts at the starter button blue/white wire?
    by any chance are your handle bars painted ? the handle bars are the ground for starter switch.
    if still chrome check control body make sure where it clamps to handlebar is clean.
     
  11. XJ650SECATAY

    XJ650SECATAY Member

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    I will get back to you on that one! It looks like I wont need it to start my bike, but I will keep it in mind, thank you!
     
    Taylo105 likes this.
  12. XJ650SECATAY

    XJ650SECATAY Member

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    I was able to start some of these tests yesterday! Surprisingly, once I tested the ignition fuse, I noticed that I was only getting around 10.5-10.8 volts from my jumper box. I decided to use my car battery to try it out. I was able to get a lot more volts through the system.

    I have a new problem now: I was trying to put gas into the carbs, and the fuel line kind of just overflowed lie it was blocked. I took the line off to check and it wasn't blocked. I took the carbs off of the bike to manually put gas into the bowls ( I found no gas in any of the bowls when I took them off, but gas leaked out of the float hinges, so I am lost there). I tried starting it again and got the same result. Then I tried starter fluid, and it almost fired up, but the carbs aren't allowing any fuel through so it wont start all the way. I took the carbs apart a little bit to check the fuel rail that supplies all of the carbs with gas, and found that it wasn't clogged up or anything.

    I only checked one spark plug (#4) to verify if there was spark or not. This spark was small and white, so I am going to check the other three plugs to see if they have a stronger spark.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
  13. Nuch

    Nuch Well-Known Member

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    How thoroughly? Did you replace any of the parts? What did your float needles look like?
     
  14. XJ650SECATAY

    XJ650SECATAY Member

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    I also forgot to mention that I was able to get spark with the battery, but it was small and white.
    When I bought the bike, the first thing I did was thoroughly clean the carbs. All of the pieces are clean and, float needles are great too, so I'm not exactly sure why gas isn't getting to the bowls.

    However; I was actually able to check the rest of the spark plugs just barely and all of their sparks are weak.
     
  15. XJ650SECATAY

    XJ650SECATAY Member

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    We stripped the paint, and welded the holes in the gas tank, I bought a fuel filter and hooked everything up. the results can be heard in the video. I'm not sure if the carbs are filling with gas or delivering the fuel to the cylinders. I have tried jumping the solenoid while pressing the start button and holding the clutch in, but still no start. that's the only guess I have. Please, if anyone has any suggestions, I would love to hear them!
     
  16. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    Your carbs have you done a full year down ?( church of clean) recommended . But if you just want it to start try a "hot shot" drain float bowls , pull fuel line get a large meat injector syringe fill fuel line with Berrymans B12 carb cleaner (autozone) and a little acetone let sit for 30 minutes . Drain bowls , reconnect fuel line and refill by putting on PRI and see if it starts . Cheers
     
  17. XJ650SECATAY

    XJ650SECATAY Member

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    Thanks man. we tried it out, recleaned the carbs, and it runs now
     
  18. XJ650SECATAY

    XJ650SECATAY Member

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    UPDATE:

    I was able to get the bike running (a video of it running is posted in another thread of mine). It is running rich, but I'll figure that out later when I decide what air cleaning system I want to use with my carbs (pods, stock air box) and when I have the carbs jetted. I am rebuilding the front brake calipers, adding stainless braided brake lines, and I picked up a set of all four brake pads and a rear brake shoe on ebay for $28.00!

    Next problem to address... I don't remember if I have brought this up before, but there were small holes left in the tank from someone attempting to pull a dent out. They filled it with bondo or something and gas started leaking as soon as I filled it up. I found this maybe a day after I bought it. Anyway, a friend of mine helped me strip the paint to look for more holes, and he was able to tig weld the holes. this took care of the biggest holes, but because of the thin metal, gas still continued to leak through small pinholes in the welds. there were at least four that I knew of so I did some research. I wanted to just solder the pinholes, but there were probably a lot more that I didn't know about. then I found out about "Red-Kote." It's a fuel tank liner that seals pinholes in the gas tank and prevents further rusting. I am waiting to do another coat of red-kote in my gas tank, as I want to be very thorough with it, but I will update you guys with how it turns out and probably make another thread about it with pictures and he process that I used to prepare my tank to be coated.

    I found that the gaskets in my petcock were all cracked and desperately needed a rebuild as well. I was able to find a petcock rebuild kit for around $13.00 on ebay.

    I'll update you on anything else that comes up!


    BRAKE PADS/SHOE: $28.00
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/FRONT-BRAK...l:Seca&hash=item419b36f01c:g:tN8AAOSwjVVV04Zx


    RED-KOTE 1 qt.: $25.00
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/RED-KOTE-G...271078&hash=item3fa43c1ab5:g:~pkAAOSwEK9UDcTd


    PETCOCK REBUILD: $13.00
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Outlaw-Rac...929599&hash=item2a53cb567a:g:w7UAAOSwE-xbDaTV
     
  19. Nuch

    Nuch Well-Known Member

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    Careful of eBay stuff... especially where it comes to fuel management and stopping! Cheaps parts are JUST That! That is not a full rebuild kit that you're getting there. Also make sure you buff the heck out of the seating surfaces inside the petcock and slather the rubbers with a touch of silicone grease... not vaseline! Also you might want to replace the onboard fuel filter (kinda looks like an upside down bic lighter) while you're in there...
     
  20. XJ650SECATAY

    XJ650SECATAY Member

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    Deinitely! good to know. I took a look inside the petcock and only found those four pieces. But along with the on board filter, what else do I need to rebuild he petcock? thanks!
     

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