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Shaft drive noise. XJ900RK

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by XJ900RK Dry, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. XJ900RK Dry

    XJ900RK Dry New Member

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    My 900 Seca has 38,000 miles on it. There is a noise in the rear that sounds like a wheel bearing going out. It can be heard best with the clutch pulled in and coasting. I replaced the easy wheel bearing to get at, but the noise is still there. And yes, I know how to replace bearings without brinelling them.:) The wheel does not seem to have any play that would indicate a really bad bearing. The noise has seemed to be gradually getting worse.

    The rear coilover shocks were replaced with a pair of Progressive Suspension units at least 15k ago. They allow the swingarm to droop more than the original as the rear tire touches the ground when the bike is on the center stand. The bike seems to sit OK when it's on the ground and me on it but this is hard to really tell. I'm a little worried though that this has caused the u-joint to operate more misaligned and is damaging it.

    I read a thread where a guy had his rear wheel lock up and it totally FREAKED me out. He survived the crash, but here in Oregon the roads are hardly ever straight, there's no shoulders, and plenty of trees right off the road. A rear wheel lockup would probably result in death.

    Any thoughts, girls or guys?
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
  2. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Pull the tire and final drive. Start inspecting bearings, the u-joint, and make sure that the final drive has gear oil in it (do this last part first).
     
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  3. XJ900RK Dry

    XJ900RK Dry New Member

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    It has gear lube in it! I'm not a total dufus, just a partial one.

    I need to get some ambition up to work on it. I have way too many projects!
     
  4. hogfiddles

    hogfiddles XJ-Wizard, Host-Central NY Carb Clinic Moderator Premium Member

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    If y0u can, make a Short video of the noise so we can hear and diagnose it.

    In the meantime, please contact me via private conversation--I am the registrar for the XJ900rk Seca Database for USA-Delivered Units. Ai would like to check to see if yours is currently registered. If so, I'd like to update the file.....if not, I would like to get it logged.

    Dave Fox
     
  5. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    You know that guy you bought it from? The one who said that it only needs a little work. That's the fella who usually has messed things up. I wasn't blaming you.
    Besides, things leak, and stuff happens, and....
     
  6. XJ900RK Dry

    XJ900RK Dry New Member

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    Thanks Dave, I'll try to get a video. Tomorrow might be a bit busy for me though.
     
  7. XJ900RK Dry

    XJ900RK Dry New Member

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    The weather should be getting better pretty soon so I'm back on this. I took some photos of the rear crown and pinion gear set. There is some wear but I don't know how much is normal at this many miles. There is a little bit of lash but again, I don't know what's normal. I can't feel any roughness in the bearings.

    How many miles can these drive shaft assemblies go before they start to wear out?

    I tried to inspect the universal joint but it's hard to tell anything with the boot in the way. I guess I'll have to pull the swing arm.

    How common is it for the damper assembly inside the engine case to go bad?
     

    Attached Files:

  8. chacal

    chacal Moderator Moderator Supporting Vendor Premium Member

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    Driveshaft Cross-joint Evaluation:

    Is this you?:

    "Everybody should go check their u-joints before you have my problem. I admit I like going fast, and doing hard starts. And it caught up with me.............my u-joint was within a few miles of complete self-destruction before I caught it, and the removed u-joint is scary. So if you've got over 50,000 miles on your bike, then this is critical!"

    Here's how to check your driveshaft u-joint:

    a) Put the bike on the centerstand, and put in 5th gear. Rotate the back tire back-and-forth. There should be minimal slack. If there is more than 1/2" of rotation, you may have a serious problem

    b) Pull the swingarm boot on the shaft back as far as possible, and use a flashlight or a finger to probe for metal peelings on the arms of the joint. If you can feel shards or what feels like bent metal, replace the u-joint ASAP!

    c) If you feel a vibration that shakes the whole bike, pull over and get the bike towed home. It's worth doing that, rather than ending up with a destroyed crankshaft, u-joint, driveshaft, or worse!
     
  9. MattiThundrrr

    MattiThundrrr Not a guru

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    That 3rd picture... if you switched it to black and white, you could frame it and hang it in a gallery. Abstract photography!
     
  10. hogfiddles

    hogfiddles XJ-Wizard, Host-Central NY Carb Clinic Moderator Premium Member

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    Private message sent----

    Dave Fox
     
  11. XJ900RK Dry

    XJ900RK Dry New Member

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    I just got home and tried to look inside the boot but it's hard to see in there. I'll try to get around to taking the swing-arm off this weekend. The noise isn't that loud. You can only hear it while coasting with the clutch in, and below a certain speed so the wind noise doesn't block it out.

    Chacal, I sort of am that guy. The bike has been ridden fairly hard with quite a bit of two-up riding. My wife is the most fearless person I know and loves to go fast and carve corners. I used to roadrace but she can take anything I am willing to dish out on a curvy highway. She cray. I don't beat on the bike but it gets pushed pretty hard. The sides of my front tires wear out first.

    Matti, if you want to make a poster out of that photo, you have my written permission to do so! I waive my copyright to the image.:)

    I just might make a poster too!
     
  12. MattiThundrrr

    MattiThundrrr Not a guru

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    She sounds like a work of art too!
     
  13. XJ900RK Dry

    XJ900RK Dry New Member

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    I had to order a 27mm socket to get the swing arm off. The u-joint is fine. There is zero play or roughness in the bearings. The output shaft turns smoothly in the engine.

    The only thing of note was a puddle of oil in the gaiter. I don't know if the u-joint was whipping this around and making noise. It doesn't seem plausible. I'm wondering now if it is just sort of a normal sound from the ring and pinion gears. Maybe they need to be adjusted. I'll put it all back together again and check the wheel rotation per chacal's direction.

    Before I put it back together I'm going to clean everything thoroughly while it's easy to get at.
     
  14. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Before you put it back together you're going to need to replace the output shaft oil seal.
    Was there any gear oil on the outside of the final drive input shaft seal, or did you just find engine oil?
     
  15. XJ900RK Dry

    XJ900RK Dry New Member

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    There didn't appear to be a leak in the output shaft seal. It may have come from an "incident" I had. I was on a curvy road and had passed some cars. I hadn't snapped my chin strap and it was flapping around and bugging me so I tried to stop quick to snap it. I pulled over on the side of the road and in order to stay ahead of those cars I stopped really quick and lost balance a little bit and my foot slipped on some gravel. I couldn't stop the excruciatingly slow-motion tip-over and down we went. I'm sure you can all relate. For some reason I didn't turn off the engine right away. By the time I got it up, oil had blown out of the breather all over the back of the engine and swing arm. I didn't see this and when I took off and got to the next corner things got really interesting. I've never flat-tracked a big-ass motorcycle before. Talk about a lurid slide! With do way to clean things off, the rest of the ride home was very pensive!

    Anyway, it's back together. I put it up on the center stand and put it in fifth gear and let it idle. I had a couple of guys listen to it and we decided the noise is actually coming from the inside the engine case near the final output.

    I also noticed that when I torqued down the axle nut to the proper value, the wheel bearings were getting pre-loaded so much the wheel was not turning freely. I pressed the bearing that I replaced a while ago and was able to move it .005" (.127 mm) in further but it didn't help much. The inner bearing and spacers aren't tightening up first. My balls are taking it in the shorts. What a pain.

    I'm not sure what to think. The bearing was bought at a Yamaha dealership. I don't have a hydraulic press and so I'm trying to drive it in with spacers and a sledge hammer. Not the way to go. And no, I'm not pounding on any balls. I used to have access to a press where i worked but I quit that job. There's no room in my garage for a press or I would buy one. There's two cars, four motorcycles (two Seca's) and a half dozen bicycles in there. You have to shuffle sideways through my garage.

    That swingarm and drive housing sure look nice and clean on the bike though!
     
  16. MattiThundrrr

    MattiThundrrr Not a guru

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    ... thanks ...
     
  17. Toomanybikes

    Toomanybikes Well-Known Member

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    How many rear ends will swap with the 900 ? Same as my Xj750rl also looks identical to maxim x and Xj700n
     
  18. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Relate? Why no. I've never dropped a brand new motorbike in front of 1,200 high school students while leaving work :oops:
     
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  19. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    They will all physically swap, from the XS triples, to the last of the XJ line; the Virago, Venture, and the V-Max . There are a few models with slightly different final drive ratios, but which ones and what the ratio differences are escape me at the moment. There are a few threads on the issue.
     
  20. adrian1

    adrian1 Active Member

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    "also noticed that when I torqued down the axle nut to the proper value, the wheel bearings were getting pre-loaded so much the wheel was not turning freely. I pressed the bearing that I replaced a while ago and was able to move it .005" (.127 mm) in further but it didn't help much. The inner bearing and spacers aren't tightening up first."

    Are you sure the correct bearing is fitted? There is an unusual one in there that has an elongated inner sleeve that acts as a spacer - item 4 in this link. If the the incorrect one is fitted, the whole thing clamps together giving the exact symptoms you describe. https://www.bike-parts-yam.com/yamaha-pieces-catalogue-9988-32.html
     
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