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yet another, no start post on 700xj

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by bullheimer, Jun 20, 2017.

  1. bullheimer

    bullheimer Member

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    550H cant do much about the voltage on that sheet cause bike wont run, and i cant not have the headlight be on either. i blew up the diodes diagram but not able to see clearly,
    Rooster, WITHOUT the charger on 12v at the Bat and 10V on the R/W to Bk; WITH the charger on I have 14V at the battery and 12.0 from R/W to Bk

    all this with the 'new' regulator i just got from ebay. i tried all of the TCIs i have (3 of them), and still no hint of a spark happening with it cranking a million miles an hour.
    the bike shops in bellingham: 1st one said their mechanic isn't coming back cause he died, and didn't want to work on my bike until maybe october when he had nothing else to do. the 2nd guy said go away and part out your bike, it's too old.
    i checked the continuity of all white wires and the green and brown from the TCI to the next connector and wires were good. wondinging about how much i could make parting this out. tired of working on it.
     
  2. bullheimer

    bullheimer Member

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    while cranking, V btwn R/W and Bk went to 11V, with or without the charger on. which i thought was weird.

    i have only till the 19th to return the first TCI. but i guess i should return them both anyway. i dont think my original one is any worse than the others and can send that off to get tested. the guy in the Netherlands said that all his parts come off running bikes btw
     
  3. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Active Member Premium Member

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    Did you do this step also? It is so easy to pull the side stand relay, just do it if you have not. You don't even have to pull the tank like most of the XJ's.

    Per Len at http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/the-ultimate-relay-switch-sensor-and-diodes-guide.27543/

    - on all XJ700 and XJ750-X models: under the left frame side cover, on the plastic regulator-rectifier mounting plate.

    It should be marked with blue and the corresponding harness should have blue vinyl tape.

    And this step also, another quick check that ensures the secondary of the coils are OK. Try it first with the caps on by inserting the leads in the spark plug caps, set the meter to 200kohm range since with caps the total will exceed the 20kohm scale. Check 1 to 4 and 2 to 3. If you don't get a reading, unscrew the caps and check the coil and then the caps. Look for corrosion where the cap screws into the plug coil.

    OK, so that was a quick and painless test, now you know the electrical wiring and fuses are good and the TCI is being powered properly.

    This is a little concerning as there should not be any green and brown wires "from the TCI", did you mean to say Rect/Reg Assy?
     
  4. bullheimer

    bullheimer Member

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    the side stand switch, if that is what you are calling the relay, has been jumped. that is what i did to make it run the first time around before it decided to never start again. prior to that i had just unplugged it which did nothing. the wires to it are Bu/Y and Bk.

    yeah, sorry, i meant to the regulator, the 3 whites and the g and brn.

    now in your link (post above), i'm reading that are both a sidestand switch AND a sidestand relay? ok so this would be news to me, as i believe i am only bypassing the switch at the kickstand. is there a sidestand relay? and where is it?
     
  5. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Active Member Premium Member

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  6. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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  7. bullheimer

    bullheimer Member

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  8. bullheimer

    bullheimer Member

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    relay i guess works since i jumped it out grounding bl/y, bk, and bk/w wires. blew the IGN fuse about 4 times till i figured out not to jump R/W to the Bl/y on that relay.... resoldered and refreshed the main ground wire to the block and replaced the black wire from the Neg terminal over to the side panel, since, when i did the neutral sw test (pg 170 of service manual), 0 ohms supposed to be + i got 9, with it all new i STILL get 6 ohms to the frame. i thought maybe i had the problem when i saw that the 12ga or 10ga wire from the terminal to side panel was about 1/2 broken off. but it didn't fix anything. i guess i should run a ground wire from the block to the frame?
    i guess all that i have left to do is start to check diodes in different parts? the engine is cranking, so i can eliminate any parts in that circuit, or not. i'm still open to any ideas. 3 more hours down the drain.

    and btw my kickstand SW is shot measuring 900 ohms instead of zed. and also, i checked the jumped relay as well as the new ground, all with the 3 tci's i have and nothing changed, it just cranks w/o any hint of a sound of a spark. i've tried using a screwdriver to the case but it's not visable or audible that way either.
     
  9. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Active Member Premium Member

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    What in the world prompted that procedure? The goal was to just remove the side stand relay to verify the TCI is not being disabled by a malfunctioning safety circuit component. The ground at the B/W on the side stand relay wire is what can disable the TCI, so removing the side stand relay (normally closed contacts) eliminates that possibility.

    And yes, jumping the R/W to L/Y (blue/yellow) is going to blow the ignition fuse if the bike is in neutral or the side stand is up. If the side stand switch was disconnected or the side stand was down it is likely the diode block was also damaged.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  10. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Burbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    I really think that you need to slow down and listen instead of coming up with you own testing procedures.
    You have two of the most knowledgeable members on here trying to help you.
    Please focus on doing things as they request so we can bring your bike back to life.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
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  11. bullheimer

    bullheimer Member

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    ok, sorry about my confusion between the sidestand switch and the sidestand relay. i thought there was just one until i read the service manual and the wiring diagram, and then brain farted Rooster telling me to just disconnect the damned thing! Well, that cost me a whole day and another page of posts but guess what? the thing fired! killed the battery again before it would fire again but that proved it to me the relay was bad. Hooked my charger back up to it, so unless you hear back from me consider this problem solved. Just had to re-read this whole thread to have it sink in!
    original and first tci's i bought both work. now they are tested. they have the same color label (yellow) and number (TID14-35) and they both idle the same. The third, which i think came out of a 650, has a red label and number is TID14-44 and makes my bike idle abourt 400rpms higher than the others. guess i'm in the selling TCIs market now. my old regulator checks good as well, so wasted money!
    THANK YOU TO ALL WHO POSTED! Really appreciate it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2017
  12. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Active Member Premium Member

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    Good the hear and...

    hopefully it is really partially solved. You have been here before and then things seemed to go south again.

    I say partially solved since if it is running without the side stand relay, the next logical step would be to troubleshoot what is defective. Could be as easy as the relay itself, or it may be the neutral or side stand switch or associated wiring. Having it working as it should will ensure your safety and keep you from driving off someday with the side stand down.
     
  13. bullheimer

    bullheimer Member

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    hi sports fans. i put my xj700n maxim up on the center stand yesterday and this spring fell out onto the ground and i looked under it and can't find anywhere that looks like it's missing a spring! anybody know? thanks!!
     

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  14. William Thompson

    William Thompson Member

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    Did you check the neutral switch, side stand switch, any kind of spring to pull the stands?
     
  15. mlew

    mlew Well-Known Member

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    looks like the center stand spring. it hooks to the center stand and frame.
     
  16. bullheimer

    bullheimer Member

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    i have one (1) spring on both stands and the rear brake, but i will check my diagram in the service manual for a neutral switch. dont see any other springs that could have fallen out except there isn't one behind the headlight is there? i didnt read about one. cant see any description of the neutral safety sw so assume that maybe it bounced out of a 737 going over my house... right when i put my bike on the center stand even!
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2017
  17. bullheimer

    bullheimer Member

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    hi it's running great. have to still do a load of work as far as brakes and rebuilding forks since a seal blew. returning one tci, will probably sell the other. trying to find where a spring goes that fell out of my bike (different thread). thanks again rooster for your guidance.
     
  18. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Burbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    It could be a simple as a dirty sidestand switch.


    Please keep one thread for your machine so we can keep track of what's been done. This lets us help you better.


    Merged. See posts above for the spring question.
     
  19. bullheimer

    bullheimer Member

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    didn't think anybody would want to suffer thru 3 pages of no-start issues to get to my spring thing, but if the two giantest sized brains are here in this post then wth. i cant see where it even came from on my bike. all the springs i do believe must be there. one each on each stand, what else could be that big? i don't know how it got there but it must be from something else if it can't be i.d. stranger things have happened. if and when i get to my fork seals and need any help i cant get from the sticky's or a manual, i can't see posting it in this thread. seems like it'd be more organized to have a separate thread, but hey, yu da boss. could be there's no such thing as journal on this site, i haven't looked.
     
  20. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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