1. Hello Guest. You have limited privileges and you can't "SEARCH" the forums. Please "Log In" or "Sign Up" for additional functionality. Click HERE to proceed.

Still marble chatter???

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by jablze33, Jun 3, 2014.

  1. jablze33

    jablze33 Member

    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Altoona, PA
    Alright so a month ago I put synthetic moto oil in my xj750rj seca,only to find out I shouldnt have by the marble chatter upon trying to start. Since then, I have drained, replaced oil twice, with seafoam as well, also found out my battery was bad so installed new battery, pulled starter and checked it but its still in good shape, and it still does the unable to start WHEN HOT with marble chatter. Do you guys think it still points to needing to get the engine cleaned out more, like its still too slippy in there? Putting synthetic in it mistakenly wouldnt CAUSE the starter clutch in some way to go bad would it? It starts fine when first firing it up for the day, but soon as it warms up, it wont start...thanks
     
  2. mwhite74

    mwhite74 Member

    Messages:
    964
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    St John's Newfoundland, Canada
    Sounds like the starter, not the clutch.

    I had a case of the marbles, and the brushes in the starter were shot! If you have a spare I'd slap it on and see what happens next.

    M
     
  3. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    21,283
    Likes Received:
    415
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Rural SE Michigan 60 miles N of Motown
    More likely the starter doesn't have the "oomph" it needs once warm to turn a hot motor.

    I doubt the synthetic oil caused the starter clutch to fail; that being said it's also worth noting that there isn't really some massive oil feed to that area, so it may take a while before all traces of the synthetic are gone.

    In short, the remaining synthetic is probably not the entire cause of the remaining issue; but it may be aiding and abetting a sluggish starter.

    Unless you pulled the starter apart and had a peek, you didn't "check it." There are two or three threads currently running involving what members found when they pulled apart a "working" starter.

    And whaddaya know; there's a voice of recent experience that got his answer in quicker than I could type.
     
  4. Gary650

    Gary650 New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Fremont, CA
    Fitz is right on, as usual. I did the seafoam twice. But between the first and second treatment, I rebuilt my starter,new brushes and cleaned the copper contacts and greased the gears. Probably a combination of both, but no problems starting anymore. Thanks Fitz
     
  5. jablze33

    jablze33 Member

    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Altoona, PA
    I did pull it apart and checked , the brushes were still good, just a little dirty but not like I have seen in some pics on here, the commutator and armature needs cleaning but do you think I should still put new brushes on and all?
     
  6. jablze33

    jablze33 Member

    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Altoona, PA
    Also do I need a specific kind of metal cleaner to clean the armature and commutator?
     
  7. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

    Messages:
    19,613
    Likes Received:
    6,703
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The City of Seven Hills
    You already have the starter out and apart. Rebuild it so you don't have to repeat the work later.
     
  8. jablze33

    jablze33 Member

    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Altoona, PA
    Alright we'll try that and hope it works,,,but what about the metal polish, any kind? I cant find glass paper anywhere...
     
  9. Stumplifter

    Stumplifter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,792
    Likes Received:
    1,051
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    near Irma, WI
    For future reference; are the starter brushes on an XJ650 a 'standard' brush or should they be ordered from Len?
     
  10. jablze33

    jablze33 Member

    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Altoona, PA
    As far as I personally have gathered they're the same for 650/750's, 12mm length. I would think as long as they are 12mm brushes.
     
  11. wink1018

    wink1018 Active Member

    Messages:
    420
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Muncy, Pennsylvania
    A mild cleaner to wipe off the dust. A large pencil erasure to 'polish' the contacts.
     
  12. tskaz

    tskaz Active Member

    Messages:
    1,878
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Saint Louis, Michigan
    Mother's metal polish to clean the carbon off the commutator and to clean the area where the brushes set. Also completely clean and replace the grease on the reduction gearing.

    Check out the rebuild thread in my signature.

    Oh, and no matter where you get the brushes, make sure that they come connected to the starter + bolt and the brush holder plate. Much easier than messing about with brushes that you have to connect yourself.
     
  13. tskaz

    tskaz Active Member

    Messages:
    1,878
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Saint Louis, Michigan
    Glass paper (3000 grit and above) is actually getting very hard to find. Your best bet to find it is a "mom-n-pop" hobby shop. The one in my neck of the woods closed last year, so I just used Mother's metal polish when I did the rebuild thread.
     
  14. jablze33

    jablze33 Member

    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Altoona, PA
    TSKAZ, your thread is the one i actually looked at as i was tearing it apart..thanks and Thanks for all the input guys..I love this website!
     
  15. jablze33

    jablze33 Member

    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Altoona, PA
    I've never heard of that Wink1018,,, just curious, can one of the wizards comment on whether That's acceptable to do.
     
  16. jablze33

    jablze33 Member

    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Altoona, PA
    I've never heard of that Wink1018,,, just curious, can one of the wizards comment on whether That's acceptable to do.
     
  17. Polock

    Polock Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,751
    Likes Received:
    2,093
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Beaver Falls, PA
    They might be the best thing to use, the white ones for ink are a little better than the pencil ones
     
  18. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

    Messages:
    19,613
    Likes Received:
    6,703
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The City of Seven Hills
  19. Polock

    Polock Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,751
    Likes Received:
    2,093
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Beaver Falls, PA
    Yea the Heathkit catalog
     
  20. tskaz

    tskaz Active Member

    Messages:
    1,878
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Saint Louis, Michigan
    You can use some very mild cleaners, but most will leave a film on the armature that needs to be cleaned off also.

    Why clean something twice? The metal polish is all removed in the process.

    Pencil erasers work excellent on small brass contact areas, it's the same principal as using the metal polish, you're using a very fine media to "sand" the surface.

    Clay bar on paint, wet/dry on aluminium, eraser on model train tracks, it's all just a form of sanding. (yeah, you name it, I've probably polished it at some point in my life)
     

Share This Page