1. Hello Guest. You have limited privileges and you can't "SEARCH" the forums. Please "Log In" or "Sign Up" for additional functionality. Click HERE to proceed.

Hi

Discussion in 'Hangout Lounge' started by Flying Dutchman, Jul 8, 2016.

  1. Flying Dutchman

    Flying Dutchman New Member

    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    NETHERLANDS
    Hey,

    I'm new here, I'm a final year mechanical engineering student, bachelor of applied sciences. 22 years old.

    Last octobre I bought an old 1982 XJ650 seca. It's my first motorcycle ever, and i bought it to learn working on bikes. I've got a while to go until i'm alowed to ride it (1.5years..).
    2015-10-15 13.28.36.jpg


    I bought it broken, the clutch cover was busted because it was tipped over by the wind and the rear brake lever punched a hole in it. I had a classmate weld it (he said it wasn't easy being cast aluminum). I charged the batteries, changed the oil and oil filter, cleaned the carbs.
    2015-10-20 12.22.44.jpg
    (bust clucth cover)

    Today I tried to start it for the first time (because before now it didnt have any oil in it). I put in the battery (it read near 12V), turned the ignition and the lights went on. The starter motor wouldn't work however. I changed the fuses( they were rusty) still nothing. I hooked it up to the car battery, still nothing.

    The weird thing is that a few months ago te blinkers and horn did work, and now they dont. The horn was weak, but now there's nothing at all. The rear blinkers didn't and still dont work, the brake light doesnt work. So I'm guessing I have some sort of an electrical problem.. I'm going to measure the Voltage over the fuses and clean the contacts with scotchbright and contact cleaner.

    My right front brake disc has issues as well, I think the slider is rusted. So I can't try and runstart it.

    My steering lock doesnt work because the pin hits the housing instead of falling neatly in place. It seems to be to high.

    My front forks are rusty, --- the whole bike is.. 2015-10-10 21.00.27.jpg

    Best Regards,
     
    Jetfixer and ecologito like this.
  2. Stumplifter

    Stumplifter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,792
    Likes Received:
    1,051
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    near Irma, WI
    You got yourself a great project there and it will compliment your studies - meticulous attention to detail and methodically working through all of the bikes systems will give you a safe and reliable ride.

    Here's my 2 cents for electrical. If the battery is old a standing 12 volts will not turn it over. Plan on spending money to make the bike right. A new battery may be your first purchase. Go through the electrical system and clean and tighten all connections (pay attention to the ground connections).

    Read this so you have a vision and plan.
    http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/the-information-overload-hour.27544/
    Ask questions here as you move through it.
    Welcome to the camp!
     
    k-moe and Flying Dutchman like this.
  3. Flying Dutchman

    Flying Dutchman New Member

    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    NETHERLANDS
    Thanks mate! New battery is deffinetely in the plan, as is a new throttle cable (last one is broken). I tried to start it with a 12V car battery (hot wiring without starting the car) and there was no difference.. It's just weird to me that something which did work a few months ago stopped working at all.. but I'll tackle the problem.
     
    Jetfixer likes this.
  4. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

    Messages:
    19,613
    Likes Received:
    6,703
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The City of Seven Hills
    The fuse clips get brittle and crack, causing a lack of conduction through the circuit. Start your electrical journey by either replacing the fuse clips, or upgrading to a more modern ATC fusebox.

    The switch contacts (starter nad kill in particular) corrode from sitting, so clean those too. You will want to remove the switchgear from the handlebar to access the contacts.
     
    Jetfixer and Flying Dutchman like this.
  5. Flying Dutchman

    Flying Dutchman New Member

    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    NETHERLANDS
    I think I found the (at least a) problem. The wires that connect to the fuse clips are broken at the end. When I measured the voltage over the "signal" fuse my blinkers went on, my neutral light went on and I heard my starter relais click. So i'll be fixing that somewhere next week. 20160709_134638.jpg
     
    Jetfixer likes this.
  6. ecologito

    ecologito Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,053
    Likes Received:
    89
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    NASCAR Country, NC
    Welcome, it looks like you have a great project on hand. The fuse box looks like it is going to need replacement. You can try to short the relay terminals and see what it does but there is a fair list of things to check before that.

    Have you been able to turn the engine by hand?
     
  7. Flying Dutchman

    Flying Dutchman New Member

    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    NETHERLANDS
    Yes I can turn the engine by hand when it is in a higher gear, in first or second it tough and i dont want to force someting.. I think i'll try to fix the wires in the fuse box just so i can test the starter engine.
     
  8. ecologito

    ecologito Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,053
    Likes Received:
    89
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    NASCAR Country, NC
    great, you can put it in neutral and turn the engine with a 19mm wrench if you remove the left side cover on the motor.
     
  9. Flying Dutchman

    Flying Dutchman New Member

    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    NETHERLANDS
    Thanks that sounds easier than trying to turn the back wheel by hand. I hear the cilinders moving and I'm glad the new oil is lubing the whole thing. The exhaust is off (it's got some holes rusted in it which I'm going to weld shut). So my first start will be a loud one...
     
  10. Flying Dutchman

    Flying Dutchman New Member

    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    NETHERLANDS
    Fuse box is working, but the bike doesn't start. The starter motor works if I put power on it so that's good. Now I have to wire hunt I guess.. if I measure the blue white wire on the solenoid (?) Next to the battery, and ik press the start button, nothing happens. Even with clutch in, in neutral and rear brake; nothing. Should my oil light be on? Because it isn't.
     
  11. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    1,852
    Likes Received:
    723
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    North, FL
    This is likely the issue as k-moe suggested. If the starter switch circuit was working, the blue white wire would change from 12V to 0V when the start button was depressed.

    The Red White wire on the other side of the solenoid should be 12V and stay there, which is an indication that the starter safety circuit is working and the safety conditions have been met.

    The oil light should come on when you press the starter button, so another indication that the starter switch contacts are not closing.

    Since you are dealing with a good bit of corrosion you should inspect all the electrical connections including inside the headlight bucket.
     
    Flying Dutchman likes this.
  12. Flying Dutchman

    Flying Dutchman New Member

    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    NETHERLANDS
    There is always 12v on the red white wire (if clutch is in). Starter button is clean and seems to be working (checked the ohms and voltage). However, still no start.. I'm thinking the solonoid might be bust.. I cleaned the corrosion but still no go. I don't fully understand what should happen, because if I put the negative 12v on the bottom bolt the starter starts working. But if I put the 12v only on the wire to the starter (so solonoid taken out) nothing happens. On both tries the 12v+ is on the 12v+ of the battery.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

    Messages:
    19,613
    Likes Received:
    6,703
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The City of Seven Hills
    With that much corrosion present it's more than safe to assume that the starter solenoid is faulty.

    Th solenoid works thusly: The two small wires fed a electromagnet that moves a st of contacts. Those contacts complete the circuit for the positive side of the starter circuit (the two big posts on the solenoid). You can check the starter by bridging the two big posts on the solenoid.
     
    Flying Dutchman likes this.
  14. Flying Dutchman

    Flying Dutchman New Member

    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    NETHERLANDS
    Thanks! Is the solonoid something I could repair? Or just buy a new one? (I'd like to repair as much as possible to learn).
     
  15. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

    Messages:
    19,613
    Likes Received:
    6,703
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The City of Seven Hills
    The starter solenoid is sort-of repairable, but it's more of a hassle than it is a good idea. Just get a new one.
     
    Flying Dutchman and Rooster53 like this.
  16. rocs82650

    rocs82650 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,663
    Likes Received:
    356
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Middle Tennessee
    Welcome aboard. Did you jump the post as k-moe advised?

    Gary H.
     
  17. Flying Dutchman

    Flying Dutchman New Member

    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    NETHERLANDS
    Hi Gary, thanks for checking in.
    Yes I jumped the post and the starter works! I got the solonoid to work by putting 12v over the small cables as well. I'm getting power from the red/white wire that goes into the solonoid, so the clutch and power side are working. The starter button is working as wel, as is the blue white wire leading to it. (We checked the resistance). We figured out that the starter is probably not ankered. So next time I will check the inside of the headlight (what i should be doing anyway).

    When I manually operate the solonoid, it still won't pass power. I know it works because the ohms change a lot when I operate it (make it click).

    Thanks a lot guys.
     
  18. Flying Dutchman

    Flying Dutchman New Member

    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    NETHERLANDS
    I've been such a major tool... I had the right side steering wheel module removed, so the starter button didn't have a ground. Took me a long while to find out. At least i cleaned all connections.

    Starter turns, engine almost starts. Except when i tried to start her again after a few times the fuse blew, and kept blowing. I hope my starter engine didn't burn through....
     
  19. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    1,852
    Likes Received:
    723
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    North, FL
    You are certainly not the first to go down that path. Yamaha used a separate ground wire on the start button for many models, but there are those few that rely on the ground at the handlebar.

    Which fuse is blowing - main, ignition, head, or signal? The starter motor is not fused, so it is not likely the issue.
     
    Flying Dutchman likes this.
  20. Flying Dutchman

    Flying Dutchman New Member

    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    NETHERLANDS
    I think it's the main one, it's definitely the 20A one.

    It was good to hear it purr with starter fluid. With the carburator it didn't work, I think the idle screw was tured too far. Exhaust is welded, the hole in the crankcase is weld repaired.
     

Share This Page