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(not) Another stupid pod thread?

Discussion in 'Hangout Lounge' started by luvmy40, Sep 9, 2016.

  1. luvmy40

    luvmy40 Member

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    So here's my question:

    Pod Filters. Why?!

    I can understand trying pods to get a smaller air induction system if you are doing drastic frame mods. Say a bobber project and you want to drastically lower the seat position or some other radical customization. I get it. I even like it. But, it seems to me that most who are asking about the pods just seem to be doing it because... well, just because.

    What's the draw?

    Now if your air box is damaged and unusable in some fashion, I understand exploring other, seemingly easier options to get running again, but how often is that the true scenario? Very rarely is the likely answer. When this is the motivation, it's more than likely because a PO thought "Pods, I wonder..." and proceeded to hack up a perfectly functional piece of machinery.

    Have there ever been any proven improvement in performance/function from a pod mod? Ever? Is it just a questionable aesthetic view? I'd appreciate any thoughts from anyone on this. Especial from those who considered it and why it was a consideration for you.

    Please understand, I'm trying to bash anyone for any decision. I simply would like to understand what the draw of pod filters is.
     
  2. luvmy40

    luvmy40 Member

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    Uh.. "NOT trying to bash anyone..."
     
  3. Simmy

    Simmy Well-Known Member

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    My story is a little different. I installed a 750X motor into my 650Seca. Initially I left the 650 airbox and exhaust on the bike. The X has the carbs positioned further from the motor to clear the water pump. This meant the rubbers between the airbox and the carbs became a custom item. I trimmed the 650 rubbers shorter but sealing to the airbox was compromised and I was reluctant to use any silicone as it would in-evidently end up getting sucked into the carbs if it ever came loose. I mounted a 4-1 Supertrapp, hacked out the airbox and mounted individual Uni Filter foam jobs, shortened to fit inside the frame downtubes. It stumbled and ran like crap and this is when I took it to the local tuner with a dynomometer. I knew I needed professional help. There was no commercial stage 3 kit available for the 750X. With Jim's experience and inventory we tried a few combinations, replacing the slide springs, drilling out the diaphragm holes. Also different needles and jets of course All the while testing it on the dyno and monitoring air/fuel. For best performance you need to keep this ratio near 13:1. He had it running quite respectable but it wasn't cheap. I then installed an FZR1000 cylinder block and pistons without any further changes to the carbs. This improved the throttle response over the 750. There was a dead spot between 5-6,000 but it made a ton of power and torque everywhere else. I rode it like this for more than 12 years. Last year one of my foam Uni Filters disintegrated after 20+ years and a big chunk got sucked into #4 carb holding them all open to 6,000 rpms. I replaced these this spring with the Chinese E-bay wire mesh and corrugated paper types for $20 for the set. Once I played with the idle mixture and re-synced them the difference was huge. The bike runs fantastic now. I got lucky. I realize that.
     
  4. MattiThundrrr

    MattiThundrrr Not a guru

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    With fuel injection, more air can get you more power. Hence the popularity of cold air intakes. Perhaps it's a style thing, or people incorrectly assume the same power gains will be found with carbs.
     
  5. JPaganel

    JPaganel Well-Known Member

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    Because racers use pods, and if you get pods, you'll be a racer. :rolleyes: Stickers add HP, and red is a faster color.

    There are three common pod myths:

    Pods filter better

    Fabric and wire mesh pods are actually a pretty crappy filter. They have to be oiled to work, oil comes out of them quickly, especially if they are mounted right on carbs where you get fuel backwash, and you get dust through the engine. Oiled foam is a better filter than oiled fabric and mesh. Paper is also better than fabric and mesh, but is not reusable.

    Pods get you more airflow


    Pods don't actually get you "more airflow" unless you are at Wide Open Throttle, which in street riding you are never. Airflow is limited by your throttle plate. You get the same amount of air regardless of filter.

    Pods help performance

    Since they don't get more air in, they don't help performance. The reason they mess with CV carburetors is that pods alter the velocity of air hitting the air bleed jets in the carb throat, which changes the pressure operating the diaphragm.


    Racers who use pods do it because they constantly fiddle with their engines, from oiling the filters to complete rebuilds. Ease of access to carbs is about the only tangible benefit of pods.

    I've said it before, and I will say it again:

    Pods are far cheaper than designing and manufacturing an airbox. If they were so great, manufacturers would use them to shave cost and increase profit. Given that there hasn't been a production bike that came with pods from the factory, I would say they aren't better.
     
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  6. JPaganel

    JPaganel Well-Known Member

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    With a CAI, it's the cold air drawn from somewhere other than the hot engine compartment is what gets you the 1-2 HP gain. Not the filter.

    Changing only the filter can change throttle response, but not add HP. Once again - amount of air going into the engine is limited by the throttle plate.
     
  7. Stumplifter

    Stumplifter Well-Known Member

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    Seriously - pods look cool. :cool:

    I'm too old to worry about looking cool or looking uncool, so I'm just a goon with an airbox.
     
  8. steber

    steber Active Member

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    Awe look at you! You liked the name so much that on the first useless comment on this post you used it! Congrats!



    I've never been under the impression that pods would improve the performance of a 30 year old antiquated machine. If people assume that than theirs bigger issues.. I went with pods because when things are said and done, theirs going to be no room for an air box. It was a realestate situation that I needed to address and pods won out over airbox. That being said i've owned my xj for over a decade and have driven with the airbox day and night for many many years. The bike absolutely screams with an airbox, i went to pods fearing the worst, only to find out it works fine. If i was comparing a run to the airbox I'd say I'm still at 90% or greater of the performance of a stock airbox. Being I went into this with the notion of losing performance, I'm completely happy with this. I also think that when I'm fully finished with the bike i can squeeze out a few more percentage points and close that gap even more. If i do, great, if not, thats fine too.

    My biggest appeal was doing something i was told wouldn't work. Taking a problem and solving it.

    If its raining I'll ride my other bike. If i have to go on a long trip where wind buffeting is a constant on the pods, I sure as hell wouldn't ride a slow and uncomfortable 500cc bike over my newer more comfortable 1900cc, so for all the negative aspects you want to throw out to those who have tuned a cv carb to work with pods, they're moot in my case.

    That's just one application though.
     
  9. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Please refrain from using personal attacks. They add nothing no to the conversation, and have gotten members booted from this forum.
     
  10. steber

    steber Active Member

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    So It's okay for him to make a nod at a previous post and both of you to do nothing but contribute to your antipod agenda? At least I contributed information on topic to this thread. Man this group sure he's changed.
     
  11. luvmy40

    luvmy40 Member

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    Actually, I'm the one that instigated the "They look cool" aspect. They do look nice, no question there and if looks is the main reason one decides on pods then that's cool. I don't see it as a reasonable trade off but hey, it's not my bike in question, right?
     
  12. luvmy40

    luvmy40 Member

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    Also let me be clear. None of my bikes are "Lookers" They are functional tools and all could use a little cosmetic sprucing up! The fact that the Maxim and Seca are pretty darn good looking bikes is quite irrelevant to me. What matters is they are comfortable, responsive and easy to maintain.
     
  13. steber

    steber Active Member

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    They're definitely a good looking bike for the time period, and a very strong bike, but as are most yamahas. I can't say I'd do pods strictly for cosmetics, theirs nothing to be gained in performance. Although if it was strictly for looks, the trade off is a slight loss of power, if that notion is fine with the owner so be it.
     
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  14. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    1. I am not anti-pod. I am pro-making-informed-decisions.

    2. Discussing a technical matter, and the pros/ cons, is quite different from making personal attacks.

    3. When asking for opinions one should expect to get positive opinions, neutral opinions, and negative opinions.

    4. We self-moderate here (for the most part). Unlike the majority of forums, XJ bikes is known for discussions remaining civil, even when there are strongly held beliefs that result in disagreements. Again, please refrain from making personal attacks.

    5. Gentelmen, this particular topic has strayed from the OP's question. Can we please get it back on track.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2016
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  15. Stumplifter

    Stumplifter Well-Known Member

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    Yes, in my opinion pods really do look cool on an XJ and member Stybe is taking a very logical approach to try and crack the nut. I applaud him. Other members have had 'success' with pods. The successful ones rarely bash people who aren't running pods and I don't believe the air box group bash pod runners.

    The fact is that through my brief tenure here there have been many people coming here bemoaning their bike's performance and then slapping their foreheads when they realized what they have done - they didNOT look before they leapt. Inexperienced and now frustrated. . . They wanted the cool pod look but lacked the mechanical aptitude that you seem to have.

    No one is targeting you, there is no "anti-pod agenda" (sounds like Orwellian Newspeak) you are only seeing a culmination of frustration based on a statistical up tick of the cafe racer trend and people thinking an XJ is easily podded.

    Please don't take it personal; life is far too short. The core community here is awesome, informed and eager to help.


    P.s. If my budget allowed I would love to have a cafe racer bike in my garage. My budget currently allows one bike in the garage I like it stock, it is easier for me to maintain.
     
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  16. steber

    steber Active Member

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    Okay, this is running away from the topic, and lets put the nail in this one here. I don't feel targeted, nor do I target anyone, if that's how I came off, my apologizes.. yes I'm a bit vocal, maybe cynical, maybe blanketed some members into a group I shouldn't. It's been awhile since I've been around, and I rarely see the members I'm used to chiming in - such as Rev and Fitz.. Maybe I've been so deep in pod research the past month since pulling the XJ out that I've only seen some post from members I've blanketed into that are more or less cut and dry, and overlooked some of the very valuable information they have also provided to this page. Yet its the initial search, which fueled me both to figure it out and to peck my chest in stance that pods are capable of running on CV carbs. So, Once again I apologize for being so scrappy, at least the way I worded it, not my stance on pods.

    Lets move this slightly on topic.. Maybe I under appreciate the fact that I'm fortunate enough to have more than one bike, and that I can build a project bike that may not function in a general manner of a daily commuter or be practical. If a situation arises where it wouldn't be wise to take out the XJ I'll jump on my other bike, no biggie to me. Pods look cool, lets face it, it gives a look to a bike, and if that bike pulls up or runs down the road without sounding like ass it kinda shows that you know your way around a bike. This is no means a reason to throw pods on, simply an added bonus. Yet, it is on point, for me.

    Border line crazy, do something because you're told not to, a bit of the old biker heritage lifestyle of use what you got. I've been sourcing parts from various newer model bikes for my XJ. Such as Triple tree parts off an FZR, turn signals off a raider, and i plan to continue that trend if possible. Get the weight off, get the bulk off, modernize a few aspects. (Yes pods are not modern, my fuel injected bike uses a airbox) This, in part, has nothing to do with pods besides the fact that I like a scrappy bike that looks well done, not a hack job but a bike that's been well thought out and resourced appropriately.

    I think one thing we can all agree on, if its done it needs to be done right. Most people don't have the time to tinker with a carb every other run or what not, i'm an insomniac (remember, border line crazy?) and have no problem pulling my carb, taking it in my shop, and just fiddling with it for fun in the middle of the night. If you don't have the time to dedicate to tuning, pods are not for you. Regadless of what side you fall on, we all agree they're a treat, and take a lot of patience, which means for most, pods arent for you. Okay I'll stop rambling on here.. Check out my build thread, i just posted a link to my hard acceleration pod runs on my project XJ. We can banter there if we choose and leave this thread on topic.
     
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  17. Wagy

    Wagy Active Member

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    Here was my POD solution and i like it !
     

    Attached Files:

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  18. luvmy40

    luvmy40 Member

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    Wagy,
    It's hard to see in the pic. Did you lop the back half of the air box off? If you did; What did you do with the space? How's she run? etc, etc, etc.
     
  19. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    are all the pods active on your set up ? its a different look .

    it also looks like you have restricted the adaptors
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
  20. MattiThundrrr

    MattiThundrrr Not a guru

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    His pods are built into the side of the air box. They do not replace the box, they supplement it.
     

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