XJ650 RJ Seca 4ko Rear Drum Brake Sticking

Are you tightening the axle nut before you tighten the pinch bolt (on the right side of the swingarm), or after you tighten the pinch bolt?
Do you have the thick washer under the castle nut?
Better yet, do you have photos of both sides of the assembly as it sits on your machine?

 

hes was talking about the other end of the axle the unthreaded side

 

I have no pinch bolt in at the moment as per you previous instructions on putting the rear wheel back in.

What I have been doing is starting from the brake side the spindle the thick washer which then goes through the brake plate behind that the bearing then the spacer with the centralising flange washer

two bearings on the drive side then a smaller washer that will only fit over the thread then the castle nut.

When I tighten the wheel up the holes for the split pin are past the end of the castle nut.

If I back the nut of so that the wheel can turn it feels a bit notchy but as I have not worked on a shaft drive before I do not know if this is normal.

I did try a 2mm longer spacer inside the wheel but that did not work.

I have not stripped down the drive shaft unit but I did remove it to alter the frame and have the metal work powder coated.

As the same problem occurs when I fit the wheel to the bike or to a another drive shaft unit I am getting a bit stumped as to what is happening.

I have been using a Haynes manual a parts PDF but mostly this site to work on the bike which has been ongoing for over a year and I need to push it on to get it finished for the summer.

 

When I tighten the wheel up the holes for the split pin are past the end of the castle nut.

this is not unusual for the hole to be past the castle nut. what you do is put the cotter (split) pin in sideways . then you bend it into the slots on the nut i have a photo some place

 

like this much neater

 

The holes on my spindle go about 1/8'' past the nut. and the hole on the brake side almost disappears inside the pinch bolt section.
If I back the nut off until the wheel can spin the castle nut is more or less only hand tight.

I am struggling to work out what stops the wheel being pulled tight towards the nut side of the spindle as I an used to bikes that have a spindle with a nut at both ends and spacers that will not allow the wheel to be locked no matter how tight you do up the axel nut.

 

maybe the spindle(axle) is not the correct one I will pull mine and measure it as well as the thickness of washers and nut.
if I recall the nut use for the axle has changed to a less taller version on newer bikes but that would not cause an over tightened situation just a more exposed hole for the split (cotter) pin

 

Interesting development I do not have a spacer on the right side of my spindle (axle). my castle nut is flush with the end of the axle, castle nut is 15.4 to 15.6 mm tall.
spacer on nut side is 4.5 mm thick.
there is plenty of room for a rod to be inserted into axle to aide in its removal.
Spindle is 320mm long end to end. 247mm threaded end to end of small diameter of axle ,73 mm long on the right side end larger diameter section.
my brake plate has a steel bushing init where spindle boss meets brake plate.

so I may be missing a spacer or there was never one there to start with.
Both my 750's have a right side washer between spindle and brake plate.

now I have more reasearch to do.
any 650 seca owners out there would you look to see if you have the right side spacer?

 

Have you, refitted the spacer inside the drive hub?

 

from xj4ever catalog
axles
HCP4799 OEM rear wheel AXLE SHAFT, for all XJ650, all XJ700, all 1981-83 XJ750 models, XJ750-D, and XJ750-X models. Does not include any accessory parts (washers, spacers, collars, etc.).

HCP4810 OEM rear wheel AXLE SHAFT, for all XJ750RL and XJ900RK, RL, N/FN, and F models. Does not include any accessory parts (washers, spacers, collars, etc.).

castle nut
HCP4801 OEM rear wheel axle shaft FLANGED CASTLE NUT, for all XJ550, FJ600, XJ650, XJ700, XJ750, and all XJ900RK, RL, N/FN, and F models. NOTE: this nut is the correct 22mm, dark-phosphate plated version of this nut as originally fitted onto all XJ550, XJ700, and XJ750-X models. All XJ650, XJ750 non-X, and XJ900 models used the same type of nut, but it had a smaller (19mm) hex, a smaller diameter flange, and natural finish. This larger nut will also fit these models properly.

castle nut washer
HCP2328 OEM rear wheel axle shaft castle nut WASHER, for all XJ650, all XJ700, all XJ750, and all XJ900RK, RL, N/FN, and F models.

spacer washer
HCP4803 OEM rear wheel axle shaft COLLAR, for all XJ650, all XJ700, all XJ750, and all XJ900RK, RL, N/FN, and F models. This is the 5mm thick spacer washer that is fitted on the right side of the brake backing plate (all models except XJ900RK) and on the far right end of the axle shaft (XJ900RK models).

FLANGED SPACER RING

HCP1795 OEM rear wheel axle shaft FLANGED SPACER RING, for all XJ550, FJ600, XJ650, XJ700, XJ750, and all XJ900RK, RL, N/FN, and F models. This is the incredibly thin flanged shimming washer on the right side of the spacer tube, behind the right side wheel bearing. A necessary part and one that is easily damaged during bearing removal or forgotten during replacement. NOTE: the original "spacer flange" is larger in diameter than this replacement, but the original is trapped in a secondary dwell cut into the wheel below the bearing pocket on the right side. The replacement does the same job; however, it needs to be installed further onto the spacer tube so that it misses the "land" for the original and just does its spacing off the inside of the casting itself. Then it works fine. It's only there to make the tube line up with the axle.
SPACER TUBE
HCP21015 Aftermarket rear wheel center hub SPACER TUBE this 2-1/2" long tube spacer fits into the wheel hub, and the HCP1795 flanged spacer ring fit onto the right end of it. For all XJ550 Seca, XJ650, XJ700, and all XJ750 (except XJ750RL models), Each:


HCP21016 Aftermarket rear wheel center hub SPACER TUBE this 2-1/2" long tube spacer fits into the wheel hub, and the HCP1795 flanged spacer ring fit onto the right end of it. For all XJ550 Maxim, 1984 XJ750RL Seca, and all XJ900RK, RL, N/FN, and F models, Each:
$ 21.95


HCP12325 OEM final drive output/wheel clutch hub SPACER TUBE this almost 3 long tube spacer fits on the wheel side of the final drive housing, into the splined clutch hub on the left side of the wheel. If this spacer is missing, you will not be able to align the rear wheel properly side-to-side within the swingarm. For all XJ650, XJ700, XJ750, and all XJ900RK, RL, N/FN, and F models. Each:

 

I have all the things on the list and my bike has the smaller flanged spacer which did have me thinking as the wheel has a recess under the brake side bearing but even when I put a 1 mm shim behind this bearing it still locks up.

The final drive housing looks like it has the spacer in which sits flush on the inside .

The bike is at work so I will need to pop in and check the spindle dimensions against your dimensions.

Is there anything that can fall out of the wheel or drive when left lying around for some time which can happen with a chain drive bike with spacers.

 

I have been looking at lots of drive units on E bay and I have found one with what looks like a spacer protruding out of where the spindle goes.

It looks like I could have been thinking that the spacer was in place and flush so I am going to work to have a good look around to try and find another spacer which looks a bit like the one inside the hub, and hopefully sort this issue out.

I suppose this is one of the problems of taking so long to do the bike that you can forget the simple things that seam obvious at the time of disassembly and that you will not forget!

When I stripped the engine down I did it all over the Christmas holiday 2016 so as not to lose any thing and I have been so focused on altering the frame ,battery box, air box etc that the wheel and drive unit have been moved around a few times.

Thanks all for taking the time to reply to what hopefully is just a case of a missing item.

 

I know 550. He needs to put a screw driver or scratch awl in the other end of the shaft BEFORE he tightens the castle nut and pinch bolt which prevents the shaft from being pulled through the frame and keeps the wheel aligned.

Gary H.

 

Well after 3 hours of going through all my boxes of motorcycle parts (do need to get some on E bay) I had almost given up and was going to look at ordering one..

I though I would have a look under one of the benches that run around our workshop and there it was at the back among some rubbish where it has been for over a year.

At first I was not sure that it was the correct part as it is so slack when put into the drive unit,but when I put it on the spindle it was a nice fit.

Wheel now in place and torqued up with the back brake working fine.

I did use a screwdriver in the hole on the spindle to stop it turning which I gather is what it is for rather than stopping the spindle from passing through the swinging arm .

I have started to read all I can on the forum regarding the electrics as that will be my next phase of the build as I have bought an M-Unit and fitted different Yamaha controls and speedo.

I do need to learn how to put images on the site as what I have changed might be of some use to another member.

 

Incorrect. Putting something in that hole before tightening the castle nut will guarantee a loose wheel.

I still think it's an issue with your spacer inside the hub. Take everything back off and measure the length of the spacer for me.

 

Reading thru again......

Questions---

1.are you making sure you have seated the rim ALL the way onto the splines?

2. You said that if you back things off til you can turn the wheel, it turns but feels 'notchy'. Does it turn smoothly if you install JUST the wheel?
If not, then I'm suggesting the final drive unit may be bad. The wheel just turns on the splines. There're no 'mechanical' parts on the wheel itself.

3. Last, you DO realize, I hope......that once you figure this out you are going to have to take it all apart again anyway in order to install the driveshaft, right?!?!?!

 

I now know that I had mistaken the part that the spacer fits into as the spacer its self and as I took the wheel out over a year ago I had forgotten what it look like.
It has not helped me that parts catalogue that I have been using online is not over clear.

I am happy now that I have found the missing spacer that the wheel turns fine and that the spindle is tightened up correctly.

I did not intend for this build to take so long but deciding to strip the engine when I noticed the crank seal leaking and a busy time at work has dragged this out and I now wish that I had taken more images when I took the bike apart.

 

So, from reply #3--- lol

 

It's all good..... glad you're able to proceed

 

So am I, next up when I have the time will be the wiring which is where I think I will struggle.