Oil people use

just bought a 82 maxim 750 that has been re build compleatly from frame the person that owend it t-boned a car her husband is a certified yamaha mechanic and re-built it in his spare time over the winter for her now theay are getting divorced and she is look to get a different bike so now i'm buying it and she said the kind of oil she used but i just figured id see what people are using for oil. And by this i mean brand and all (ex. castrol 20-w50 or castrol 15-w40 and so on just wondering figured it was sotming to talk about see if any one see's a big differance with what oil theay use . i guess i could make this more fun by starting out with my self but not ever changed the oil and i gess i dont have the type of oil it is. i suppose if yo


1982 maxim 750
20/W50

 

not sure what I put in it last time, as this is my first bike and that was my first oil change..... all I know is that I used Penzoil, it gets used on my truck, so I figured it would be fine on the bike.

 

I once had the opportunity to open up a B-O-P 305 that we had religiously used Penzoil in for at least 5 years (we bought it from the family across the street and they had done the same for years prior). The coking in the valve train and on the heads was horrendous! I was very dissatisfied with the results of the Penzoil. I subsequently used Quaker State in all of my big blocks with excellent results. Truth be told however, you must start with a clean engine to finish with one. If the mess is pre-existing, most oils will not clean it out. I have used Castrol on all of my 4 cylinder engines without exception and have always been rewarded with clean engines when I tear them down (VW's aircooled and watercooled, motorcycles, etc...). I started with Castrol at the recommendation of a VW dealer mechanic and noticed that the required 2,500 mile oil change was not necessary anymore. The oil viscosity and "sticktion" were excellent into 5,000 miles!!! Of course on my VW's I ran single grade 30 weight, but even with 20-50 in my motorcycles, I had similar results. I don't believe in changing oil just because the odometer hit the mark, it is up to the condition of the oil. Take a dab off of the dipstick or where ever you get your sample from and rub it between your fingers, does it feel watery or gritty? Does it smell of fuel? Pull your fingers apart. Does the oil seem to cling to your fingers and excert a certain amount of suction? If you do this with a drop of fresh oil and compare them, you can tell if the oil needs to be changed. If you smell gas, it has blow-by gasses suspended in it that can be corrosive, change it and find out why you have the fuel issue (over-rich mixture perhaps). If the oil is not clingy and thick, change it. If it is filled with contaminates (black as night) change it. Grit? Change it (and find out where the contaminiates are coming from, quick!). The other issue is one of friction modifiers. I wrote Penzoil and Castrol about their formulations in oils and why they produced motorcycle specific blends. They both replied that the friction modifiers package was key. The wet clutch most of our machines use requires the oil be able to withstand the shear forces of the clutch, something a car motor doesn't deal with. While the SJ specs for oil in my machine are met handily by regular car oil, the friction modifiers are not in the blend and the clutch will be subject to quicker wear. If you change your clutch often, no big deal. Otherwise, it is recommended you put oil formulated for bikes in your machine. Of course, you have the ultimate say in what goes into your machine. I hope that I have provided some food for thought. Any other opinions?

 

to play devils advocate, the reason for changing your oil accodring to teh odometer, is because there are additives in the oil that get used up over time, thye do many diffrent things from keeping dirt and grit suspended so they come out when you change the oil, to regulating the thickness of the oil at diffrent tempratures, to preventing foaming of the oil inside the crankcase, to helping prevent rust. so while your oil may still be fairly clean and seems to hold up to a viscosity test, there may be protectants in your oil that have been depleated and need to be replaced.

Also another reason is that water will setlle tot eh bottom of your oil (obviously as we've all seen oil shines on the top of dirty water. As your engine is in use over time it accumulates fuel and water in the oil. This is normal, and is unavoidable (you can minimize it but never stop it completely) now the reason this matters is because, 1) fuel and water do not lubricate very well, and 2) because it will give you a falsely high reading when you check your oil. It may look like you have plenty of oil in your sight glass, but iff theres a half liter of accumulated fuel and water, you might not see it in the sight glass, but you've really only got 2-2.5 quarts of oil in there, and these bikes should have aprox. 3 (if i remember correctly). while YOU might not see this, your engine certainly will. Also most oil pumps use a pickup located extremely low in the oil pan, this can become a problem if you have excess water and fuel in your crank case, as your oil pump will be siphoning up things other then oil... not good!

Now, im not saying that i do every oil change on the mark. I do mine much like Robert does his, just putting that information out there.

P.S. diesel oil does not contain friction modfiers.

All oil sold in the US will have a sunburst and a circle within a nother circle. on the front or back somewhere, from SAE and API, if the inside or bottom half of between the two circles on the circle within a cirlce icon says "energy conserving" or "energy efficient" avoid that stuff for your bike. as it means it contains friction modifiers (as previously stated by robert) if it does not say it, then it does not have the modifiers in there, and you should be fine so long as it meats or exceeds your other requirements.

 

I am on board with the modifiers break down you mention Brian, glad you reminded us. Thanks. Hmmm... All right, I'll bite, how does that much water and fuel make it's way into the sump? Condensation is normal but is burnt off as the oil heats up and the water and fuel evaporate and are pumped into the Positive Crankcase Ventilator system, where they are then in turn routed to the air box to be introduced into the intake mixture to be burned. The bulk of the water and fuel are thus removed. Only a miniscule quantity (a cc or less) remains at shut down unless you leave your petcock on the prime position or your float sticks. I've seen "chocolate milk" with water-cooled machines because of cracks and warps, but never on an air-cooled except after a flood. Your spot on about the sump pickup being at the low point, it rests just above the sump floor (about 8-9mm above on my machine) so it is bound to be the first to encounter the dregs. I'm not bashing the question, but the logic is lost to me. I have never encountered this issue in the fashion you describe. I am grateful that you raise the question though, thank you. Please respond. (BTW, My XJ650 specifies 2500cc of oil, 2.6 quarts, your really close).

 

as long as it doesn't have energy conserving on it should be fine, look at the front where the little circle is and it tells there.

 

well from reading the replies there are here now i see that i have started somting that is infact intreasting and ill have to read up more on the net about all the things said. I know of the put the oil on you finger thing this can some times help to find a problem in the motor but most certianly i would not go by that to tell when it's time to change the mile limit is set do to the additives in the oil like said also thus i know from a tuor some motor oil place that our shop class were asked to come to. but i guess my real question was just what kind of oil do you use like i decribed the hole name brand and weight and so forth not how you change it all though i do like the info put in. so ill try to put my 2 cents in about this oil thing i started with out knowing it lol

In the end it's to keep parts cool and help prevent weir i mean to put this in prespective i ran a lawn more engin for 6hrs straight with nothing but pressurized air blowing on the bottem of the piston and bearing's so forth it had a noticble amount of weir on it and some scratches on the cilinder wall and connecting rod to crank connection due to metal on metal and im sure some particles getting between for the rust i hope your not using oil on your hot rod to prevent rus on the body lol well enougfh said id like to see what more people have to say on the hole oil thing not just the pole but what theay use and why mainely

 

Just in case you were wondering where i got all this information, it's because im a student studying "Automotive Technology" and i finished my automotive engines class last semester so this is all pretty fresh.

To be honest it was never really explained to us where the water comes from either, but then again we never asked. My best guess would be that the crank case has air in it, and this air has water vapor in it just like all the air outside the crankcase. So When you run your engine everything heats up, then after you turn it off, water condenses on the inside of the oil pan and on the crankshaft, main caps, and bottom of the block, and they drip into your oil.

I remember seeing a chart in class that said acccording to GM it was typical of a 2.5L Inline 4 engine after 3000 miles to see roughly a half to full quart of water in the pan, and depending on your rings condition, up to a half quart of fuel. there were some other deposits int he oil like some metal bits from wear, not completely uncommon but only in trace amounts. nothing worth really thinking about.

But i do agree with your conclusion that most of it should evaporate and be forced out the PCV. hmm... Probably a fair amount of it does get forced out, but some stays.... i dont really know jsut guessing at this point.

and I've only done one oil change on my bike so far, but i used Shell Rotella 15W-40 cause its cheap, comes in an easy to carry 5 Qt. container and seems to be workin great. (p.s. i live in new england so right now temps range from 10-65 on any given day.)

annnd not to stray further, but as you mentioned oils primary function is to create a "film" that prevents all moving metal parts from actually touching and creating friction and increasing wear. And it secondarily removes a small amount of heat from the area (more so in air cooled engines like on our bikes).

 

GM must have been running that test with the motor partially submerged or in 100% humidity to pull that much water out of the sump. I've recovered flood damaged vehicles and found less. I wonder how they got that much water in there? Brian, I've seen odd things in my engineering classes (electronics engineering) as well, but half of it doesn't equate to real life experience. In my 20+ years as a technician, I've seen components do things they were never designed to, totally defying physics (we have all heard about how it is physically impossible for a bee to fly right?). Your right on about some residual water condensate remaining in the sump, it’s normal, the same as a half empty fuel tank. Simple physics and a lot of rusted out fuel tanks. The commercialized term "liquid ball bearings" is dead on about oil, which is its primary purpose with cooling running a close second. Your education is serving you well. The metal in the sump (provided it is not too big) is the residual of the "final machining" of the parts in the motor and as you said, is normal. Testing this particle suspension can tell you a great deal about what is going on in your motor and which bearings are degrading. Those tests are not cheap ($30-60USD) but can be a great help in trouble diagnosis. Keep at the books and get out into the field as soon as you can for that hands-on experience. Good luck to you! Iwasatoad, did we get your answer to you? I hope so. You mentioned doing some research of your own, may I suggest hitting the major oil websites and the API website (American Petroleum Institute) for more information. Good luck to you too! P.S. Castrol sent me some cool stickers with the literature I asked for, bonus!;^)

 

Well it was nice to meat you all and talk about Oil and see what people had to say on oil. Hope to see you all out crusing this year as currently for me i do not have a motorcycle endorsment or a permit and never had one just road with out it at the end of this month i pick up my XJ750 maxim and paying off all my traffic tickets and gett my permit and endorsment. Well hope to tlak or post to you all agin

 

Get right with the law and we'll see you out there!! Peace to you.

 

Hoo Boy! O.K. here's my .02.
Jan 1 2004 theUS E.P.A. ( meddling @$^*^%^&ers ) took about 90% of the zincdialkyldithiophosphate ( ZDDP )out of motor oils ( SL, SM, and so on) . SJ oil is better but SH oil is what you really want ( good luck finding it ).
Well for the last 3 3/4 years I have been getting calls about dead cams .
The removal of the zinc compound removed the extreme wear lubricants from the oil. Roller cams don't need it but flat cams do.
Valvoline race oil ( with ZDDP additive it says so on the back of the bottle) you will notice does not have the API circle on the back and thus is safe to use. Personally I will use Royal Purple Max Cycle or Redline oils as they have sufficient ZDDP to keep my engine alive. If iI use regular oil I add an STP oil treatment as it puts the ZDDP back in but I'm not sure what effect it has on a wet clutch. Also has anyone tried Justice Brother's Heavy Vehicle Lube in thier bikes? The JB rep puts it in EVERYTHING. It keeps it's lubricating properties even when contaminated with gasoline. I used it in my KZ650 and got smoother shifts. Any other Opinions on this stuff?

 

Hoo Boy! O.K. here's my .02.
Jan 1 2004 theUS E.P.A. ( meddling @$^*^%^&ers ) took about 90% of the zincdialkyldithiophosphate ( ZDDP )out of motor oils ( SL, SM, and so on) . SJ oil is better but SH oil is what you really want ( good luck finding it ).
Well for the last 3 3/4 years I have been getting calls about dead cams .
The removal of the zinc compound removed the extreme wear lubricants from the oil. Roller cams don't need it but flat cams do.
Valvoline race oil ( with ZDDP additive it says so on the back of the bottle) you will notice does not have the API circle on the back and thus is safe to use. Personally I will use Royal Purple Max Cycle or Redline oils as they have sufficient ZDDP to keep my engine alive. If iI use regular oil I add an STP oil treatment as it puts the ZDDP back in but I'm not sure what effect it has on a wet clutch. Also has anyone tried Justice Brother's Heavy Vehicle Lube in thier bikes? The JB rep puts it in EVERYTHING. It keeps it's lubricating properties even when contaminated with gasoline. I used it in my KZ650 and got smoother shifts. Any other Opinions on this stuff?

 

3 best synthetics on the market today.

Mobil1
Amzoil
Royal Purple
they all tested to have nearly ZERO ash content when literaly being burned in a frying pan. Funny story about Penzoil. My dad and I used to frequent Laguna Seca for the F1 races and we had pit passes. One day we got there pretty early and watched them all prep the cars for the race. Well we walked near the Penzoil sponsored car (dont remeber which team it was) and the mechanic was pooring MOBIL 1 into it! They obviously know something! Just thought it was hilarious, my dad has the picture blown up and framed in his gagrage. I stay away from conventional oils period. I only use synthetic. (Mobil)

 

I've been using CARQUEST house brand oil for years in my personal rigs, so when I got the two bikes I used it in those as well. This was before I knew about the problems some people were having with wet clutches using some motor oils (something to do with energy saving additives I believe).

I'm happy to report that I have not had any of these problems. The CARQUEST house brand is bottled for us by Ashland Oil Company. You may know them by one of their better known products: Valvoline. I know that Ashland also makes the NAPA brand oil (or at least they did). I just looked at the back of the bottle and the API rating says SM. Also, I've been using 10W-40.

 

For 11 years I've run a lawn service on Amsoil and only had 1 "pawn shop" edger break [rod bearing] all small air cooled engines, my trucks and boats get synthetic. I save my drained, nice looking oil for the work truck. I buy Mobil 1 in a pinch. With 95 degree air temps I'm afraid of running a 30 weight, so it's 10W-40 for me. Here's where all that water comes from boys: Gasoline is a hydrocarbon, ring blow-by on the power stroke is CO2 and H2O ! Lots of H2O in exhaust! Oil will "hold" some water in suspension before it persipitates. A bike mechanic told me years ago to run only 750 miles because of "gear-shear". That's all.[align=center]

 

After reading though the "tons" of info on this site I made the decision to go with Rotella T synthetic. Available at wally world and relatively inexpensive. Also comes in 1 gallon containers. I add 3.1 qts when changing oil and filter. I donot screw with the "intermediate drain plug". Change oil ~ 4 months or around 5,000. miles.

George

 

nice pick on the rotella syn...although dino is fine too. I use Advance Auto parts 20w-50 or whatever 15w-40 is on sale...they are all plenty stout enough to handle what these motors throw at 'em. Just imagine what people were using in the 80's ;(