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What did you do to your Yamaha today?

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by Cutlass84, Jun 4, 2007.

  1. Chitwood

    Chitwood Well-Known Member

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    Tomorrow I can look in the garage. I have the ngk part numbers for inner and outer cylinders both with 5k ohms resistance.
     
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  2. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    Spent the day at the casino for a change I lost but wife won :mad: so we went to an estate sale nothing I needed . On the way home we stopped by local gas station we got some scratch off was standing outside , a guy on a full dress Harley pulled up to another dude on his Harley , he told the guy he just bought it paid 7k for it with 65k miles on clock ( WOW) he was worried he over paid ( do you think lol) it is his first bike , he had a tough time moving from stop sign it did not sound real good. Came home got on my Seca rode around town passed 100 miles on my 2nd tank of the season , my bike might not be perfect and it is not a Harley , figure I have less than 2k in bike , between up grades,tires, brakes,clutch, spin on oil filter, braided brake lines, AMG battery, fork seals, I bought the factory hard bags, I have the factory front fairing I have to repaint and all the other parts I have bought. Guess my point is I can enjoy my bike with no guilt of making payments , since this year so far has been a bust for riding this season due to RAIN, RAIN, MORE RAIN, FLOODING and temps in the 50 to 60's . Cheers.
     
  3. Timbox

    Timbox Well-Known Member

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    Jetfixer, we could start a thread about Harley's and (some) of the people that ride them. I am metric all the way...Love my metric bikes and the cost and ease of maintenance is one of the reasons. Thanks for the story.
     
  4. Lodewijk

    Lodewijk Member

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    Worked on the rear brake. The calipers were dragging on the disc and not retracting properly, making it hard to get the brake assembly off. The pistons are stuck in the caliper; managed to squeeze them part of the way out by pumping the brake (first time bleeding brakes, now I know the pain, too). Tried compressed air to get them completely out but that didn't work. Luckily, a mechanic friend of mine will help me out (so grease gun option is off the table atm).
     
  5. Lodewijk

    Lodewijk Member

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    As a European, the Imperial system confuses the heck out of me. All my tools were metric already, so pretty happy I don't have to get everything double as I don't skimp on tools.
     
  6. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Some people need three sets. Older British motorcycles use Whitworth (BSW). The fun part with that standard is that the fastener head sizes changed a bit during WWII.
     
  7. Simmy

    Simmy Well-Known Member

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    Interesting you mentioned it K-moe, below is a pretty good explanation of the fasteners on British bikes. Personally when I built my own BSA anything which needed a nut and bolt I substituted metric fasteners. If it screwed into a BSA part I used the correct bolt. I didn't actually buy a set of Whitworth wrenches, I was careful using an adjustable and in a few instances I made my own filing down 11 & 15 mm metric wrenches.


    The Meaning of “Whitworth”

    Included in this catalogue by kind permission from the author Charles Falco.

    First, a bit of history. Although by the 19th Century England was well into the Industrial Revolution, every British
    factory that needed to bolt something to something else devised its own fasteners to do so. Clearly, this caused all
    sorts of compatibility problems. To the rescue came Joseph Whitworth, who in 1841 invented a standardized system
    of course threads with 55 degree thread angle and rounded roots and crests. This was only one of his engineering accomplishments,
    for which he was knighted in 1869.
    Along with his form for the threads came heads for the bolts that were based on the length along the side of one flat,
    rather than across the flats. Hence, there is no simple fractional number for the length across the flats, which is why
    your American wrenches don’t fit. The fractional number on an English wrench refers to the diameter of the bolt
    (which is 1/4”, 3/8” etc. just like in the U.S.); not the distance across the flats (which ends up being various weird
    dimensions). Some years later the British decided they needed a finer pitch for some applications, so another thread
    series was introduced (although using the same 55 degree Whitworth thread form). They also decided that the heads
    were too big for the bolts, so for most of the applications they switched to using the next size smaller heads. Because
    of this, and to add one more bit of complexity to your life, one manufacturer will mark a particular wrench (spanner),
    “3/8BS”, while a different manufacturer will mark the very same wrench “7/16W”. They fit the same size head.
    The first thing any fledgling Brit biker learns is that his or her motorcycle has “Whitworth bolts”. They think this is interes
    ting , buy a set of “Whitworth wrenches”, discover these wrenches fit their bolts, and believe they now know everything
    they need to know about British fasteners. Unfortunately, at this point they know only enough to make themselves
    dangerous. Instead, what they should have muttered to themselves is “Oh my god, what other bizarre and incomprehensible
    things have the Brits done to the fasteners on my machine?” The answer to this question is:

    British Standard Whitworth (BSW)
    These are the original, 19th Century, coarse-threaded industrial bolts designed to hold locomotives together. Because
    of their coarse pitch, they are prone to vibrating loose, so are little used on motorcycles. The major exception is for
    threading into aluminum (e.g. crankcase studs), where a coarse thread is less prone to stripping than a fine one. It
    turns out that, other than for 1/2” (where the Brits use 12 tpi, and the Americans 13 tpi) the thread pitches are the
    same as for American Unified Coarse (UNC). However, the thread form is different; Whitworth = 55 degrees with a
    rounded shape, while UNC = 60 degrees with straight sides. In spite of this, mismatched nuts and bolts will mate without
    apparent problem (even though the ultimate strength of the combination is somewhat less than it otherwise would
    be), so you’re likely to find UNC bolts or studs where BSW should have been.

    British Standard Fine (BSF)
    This is a finer pitch series, using the same thread form as BSW. BSF is analogous to American Unified Fine (UNF), although
    - unlike the case of BSW/UNC - none of the pitches are common with UNF. Many fasteners and parts with BSF
    threads are found on motorcycles.

    Cycle Engineers’ Institute (CEI) or British Standard Cycle (BSC or BSC)
    These are different names used for the same threads.
    These have straight sides and a 60 degree thread angle, rather than the 55 degrees of BSW/BSF. By far the most common
    pitch is 26tpi for all sizes from 1/4” through 1/2”, although 20 tpi appears as well. Most, but by no means all, fasteners
    on post-War BSA’s were CEI. That is, until the late 1960’s, when it got more complicated. Although both the
    thread form and pitch are different than BSW/BSF, the heads on CEI– threaded fasteners use the same “Whitworth”
    wrenches you bought for your machine. Also, since 1/4”CEI and BSF are both 26tpi, you will find these fasteners interchangeable,
    even though they are of a different thread form.

    British Association (BA)
    BA has a 47 1/2 degree thread angle which, oddly enough, is the same angle as the angle between the cylinders on pre-War Series
    A Vincent engines. Normally, I would assume this was a coincidence but, when dealing with British engineering, one never knows.
    Anyway, BA is a metric thread system devised by the British for small screws used in components like speedometers. Not metric
    like you might expect, but with the thread pitch and diameter determined by multiplicative factors of the number 0.9 to the power
    BA. Hence, the bigger the number, the smaller the size. I couldn’t possibly be making this up. Ah, the English. You’ll find lots of BA
    threads on any British bike, but only for fasteners smaller than 1/4”. BA fasteners have their own set of wrench sizes. Typically, a
    set of “Whitworth” sockets will include a 0 BA and maybe a 2 BA socket.

    British Standard Pipe (BSP)
    These are based on the Whitworth thread form, and come in both a straight and a tapered series. You’ll probably
    find one of the former threads on your bike’s petcock, while the latter is the self-sealing thread system used on such
    things as galvanized water pipes.

    Unified Course (UNC) and Unified Fine (UNF)
    In the late 1960’s, when even the U.S. was thinking of going metric, the giant BSA Corporation decided it was finally
    time to scrap that old 19th Century Whitworth-based system, and switch to …..yes, you guessed it, American. Since
    they had lots of money invested in tooling, the switch wasn’t made suddenly (or completely), so starting in the late
    1960s bikes had a mix of all sorts of thread forms. Typically, engine internals (e.g. the thread on the end of a camshaft)
    stayed with whatever form it used to have, while simple fasteners (e.g. holding the fenders on) switched to UNF. A
    typical wrench for UNC/UNF fasteners is marked with its size using a notation like “3/8 A/F”. Many people mistakenly
    believe “A/F” means “American Fine”. Not so . It simply means the measurement is taken Across the Flats. Also , although
    this thread form is commonly identified as being “American” (and, indeed, is based on the older Society of Automo
    tive Engineers, SAE, standards), in fact it is a British Standard as well. This particular standard was developed in
    1948 as a result of the painful realization that it would be convenient if during the next war Nigel’s spanners and fasteners
    worked on Joe’s Jeep. The short term solution was to flatten the crests, and round off the roots, of the SAE
    thread form, which allowed UNC and BSW to interchange.

    Model Engineering (ME)
    These are based on the Whitworth thread form, but have threads with finer pitch than BSF. They come in a range of
    diameters, but all are either 32 or 40 tpi. Miller used ME for at least one fastener on some of their electrical equipment.

    Metric
    I can’t think of any examples of classic British motorcycles that left the factory with metric fasteners, but have every
    confidence that there were some. But, even leaving these aside, unless you bought a machine that was never uncrated
    before reaching your hands, don’t discount the possibility that some previous owner substituted metric fasteners
    when he couldn’t get his hands on proper ones. At this very moment the rear fender on one of my British bikes is being
    held in place with metric fasteners. Although I don’t intend that they stay there to vex some future owner, you
    never know. They’ve temporarily been on the bike for more than 15 years thus far. And don’t assume all metrics were
    created equal. Prior to the creation of the ISO standard in the mid-1960’s, the Japanese JIS metric standard was different
    than the German DIN standard, which in turn was different than the French standard. Although the bolts were the
    same diameters, in many case the pitches were different.

    “None of the Above”
    While the above systems account for well over 95% of all threads you will run across on a British bike, they are by no
    means all threads that were in use during the 20th Century. Also, some manufacturers couldn’t restrain themselves
    from inventing a few oddball pitches of their own. This is why, when dealing with British bikes, you should assume
    nothing. You must have a pitch gauge and calipers.
    So, let’s say you would like to buy a set of “Whitworth” taps and dies to use on your British motorcycle. My first recommenda
    tion is that you buy a HSS set (rather than carbon steel), even though it will be at least twice the price. Then,
    in order of overall usefulness, I believe you’ll find in first place will be a CEI set, then BSF, then BA. Unless you really
    get deeply involved, I suggest you make do with UNC to “simulate” BSW, although you’ll want to buy an individual
    1/2”-12 at some point to supplement your UNC set. Thus, if you follow my recommendation, one of the very last
    things you’ll want to buy for working on your British motorcycle is an actual “Whitworth” tap and die set.
     
    Lodewijk and k-moe like this.
  8. MattiThundrrr

    MattiThundrrr Not a guru

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    America's friendly hat
    Unrelated update: I no longer want any British bikes in my stable.
    That is all.
     
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  9. PavelK313

    PavelK313 Active Member

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    And I been really wanting early 80s GS750
     
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  10. Lodewijk

    Lodewijk Member

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    I was able to put together and bleed the rear brake yesterday, so I took the bike to work today. It makes for a better start of the work day. =)
     
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  11. Lodewijk

    Lodewijk Member

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    Interesting read, thanks. Def. something to consider before getting a British bike.
     
  12. Timbox

    Timbox Well-Known Member

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    Ya, that was a interesting read for all the different standards...can you say "proprietary" . Used to run into that all the time with electrical stuff in the service, why not in the mechanical fields.
     
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  13. joe elliff

    joe elliff Active Member

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    Took the ole girl out for Applebee’s

    Tinkering as well with the new to me 750r parts bike
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Uxbridge Brule

    Uxbridge Brule Active Member

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    Welded a hole in the collector box, doesn't look that great but I didn't take it off the bike so that's what I get. Reinstalled the front fender with a coat of truck bed liner sprayed over it, I like the look. This bike has so many dings and pitted chrome that I'm starting down a blacked out paint scheme. It sounds so much better with that hole filled.
     
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  15. firebane

    firebane Active Member

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    Go fast parts for the seca 650

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. firebane

    firebane Active Member

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    I've been having a horrible break of the bike around 6500-7000rpm where the bike just doesn't stumble and I've been working slowly through everything to get it fixed.

    Found out the following:
    1) Bike is using resistor caps with resistor plugs - proper plugs and new caps on the way
    2) Coils measure within spec although the primary spec for both are right at the tail end of 2.8
    1/4 P = 2.8 S = 11.45
    2/3 P = 2.8 S = 11.05

    Replaced pods for airbox and adjusted mixture screws to 2.5 turns but going to to out to 3

    Started getting parts to get the oil cooler back on the bike

    Tonight or maybe tomorrow its going to be valve check time.
     
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  17. joe elliff

    joe elliff Active Member

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    Took the girl to work. Shouldn’t take her here coz it’s too dang dusty
     
  18. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    Please note the idle mixture screws do not have to agree , I use a colortune plug on my seca started at 2.5 most of mine are at 3 to 3.5 , I check plug color once in awhile I pull the plugs to check color. Another thing your valve adjustment can effect carb settings .
     
  19. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    Today temp in the high 80's , I worked yesterday on my wifes Chevy HHR replaced both hub bearings , and rotors and pads ( love Rock Auto) only took me about 3 hrs temp was in 90s after that I rode to gas station to buy Powerball ticket , was not in mood to ride , but today I rode ran some errands and rode to a buddies house , looked at his ATK 605 cool bike . Headed home and the sky looked mean storm rolling in ,wind really blowing , was moving me around , made it home just in time. My wife was worried about me , when I got home she showed me the radar :eek: BIG red and yellow storm. Oh well was a nice ride till the last 10 miles, would have not been first time I've riden in the rain.:D
     
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  20. Tim O

    Tim O Active Member

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    Hmmmm... this guy good or bad luck just before a ride?

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     

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