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82 Maxim 650 Starting System

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by Ben Babuski, Aug 22, 2019.

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  1. Ben Babuski

    Ben Babuski New Member

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    If I try to start the bike, it will crank a couple times, but then it will disconnect and make a dry mechanical spinning noise that will stop abruptly when I stop.
     
  2. Ben Babuski

    Ben Babuski New Member

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    The teeth of the starter gear and the gear it spins directly are fine. This is my first ever project so any help is much appreciated.
     
  3. Toomanybikes

    Toomanybikes Well-Known Member

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    That is the internal starter clutch. Sounds like a can of rocks.What type of oil are you using?
     
  4. Ben Babuski

    Ben Babuski New Member

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    Mobil 1 20w 50 4 stroke oil
     
  5. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Does it carry the JASO MA or MB certification? I ask because there are many flavors of Mobil 1 4-stroke oil.
    20-50 is a little heavy, but should be fine since it's been so hot this summer.

    Has the starter been cleaned and re-brushed?
    Have the electrical connections been cleaned and deoxidized?
    Has the battery been load tested?
     
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  6. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    Starter clutch slipping mine does this when hot , eventually I will have to pull engine and split case to fix.
     
  7. Ben Babuski

    Ben Babuski New Member

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    I have not completely refurbished the starter, but I tested it out of the bike and it will spin perfectly fine for however long without overheating. The only thing I have done to the electrical connections is sand off the corrosion to the metal. The battery is about two months old, but it has not been load tested. The oil cans only say they meet the requirements of the API SJ.
     
  8. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Spinning a starter without a load is easy. Spining one fast enough under load is not.

    API SJ is not suitable for wet clutch engines, particularly not when the starter clutch is also sprayed with oil, as is the case with the XJ series. It has friction modifiers that will cause slippage. Unless there is also a JASO certification on the bottle you can't use it.

    Choosing Oil for a Wet Clutch Motorcycle

    Drop the oil and change the filter. Remove the starter (rebrush it too), and spray carb cleaner into the hole toward the front of the bike to clean off the starter clutch. Refill with a JASO M, MA or MB oil (see the link above) as well as a dose of Seafoam to help clean out any of the remaining API SJ oil. You may still notoce some starter clutch slippage until the second oil change, but not nearly as much as you have now.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
  9. Ben Babuski

    Ben Babuski New Member

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    Thanks, Ill give it a try and get back to you
     
  10. Ben Babuski

    Ben Babuski New Member

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    The oil I currently have says that it is designed to work with wet clutches, do you really think I should change it?
     
  11. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Is there a JASO certification stamp, or claim of JASO compliance anywhere on the container?
    If not then it's just Valvoline's say-so that it will work, and they might be wrong (not all wet clutches are created equally, and most modern bikes have "better" starter clutches).

    Which costs more, changing the oil or splitting the cases to repair the starter clutch? (hint: I already know the answer).

    Rebrush the starter first though. Replacing your starter motor brushes w/ pics
    Costs a bit more than new oil, but it's likely never been done. If the starter isn't spinning fast enough the starter clutch won't engage no matter what condition the clutch is in, or which oil is in the sump.

    On the oil side of things: Rotella T4. Inexpensive, and perfect for the machine's needs.
     
  12. Ben Babuski

    Ben Babuski New Member

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    I did everything you suggested with the oil but the problem still persists, I guess the only thing left to try is rebrushing the starter
     
  13. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Oftentimes the solution is a combination of things.
     
  14. Ben Babuski

    Ben Babuski New Member

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    I really need to get this bike running, and I think that if the brushes needed to be replaced, then the engine would never even turn over when I crank it. That leads me to believe that the starter is fine and it is something disengaging in the crankcase that is causing my problem. Remember, when I crank the bike it will turn over a couple times (sometimes for a couple of seconds straight and sometimes only for half a second) but after that something disengages and the starter is left spinning itself and the starter clutch, and when I release the start button it will come to a stop that almost sounds like a dry metal gear grinding against another.
     
  15. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    The term would be "degraded" and just because the starter turns does not mean it is operating at peak efficiency and spinning at the proper speed. The brushes may have ample length, but the commutator could still use a good cleaning and the 37 year old grease on the reduction gears could both contribute to a slower speed and consequently a slipping starter clutch. It's an easy job and certainly value added when diagnosing a slipping starter clutch - the recommendation to replace the brushes is also good advice as a preventative maintenance item while you have the starter torn down.
     
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  16. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    ^That^

    Consider the alternative is that the starter clutch needs to be rebuilt or replaced. The cases have to be split for that job, and it requires around $300 in gaskets and o-rings.
    Tend to the starter first.
     
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  17. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    I tried a starter rebuild , heavier grade non synthetic , motorcycle oil 20/50 , sprayed down starter clutch ( with starter removed) battery fully charged. When my bike gets hot occasionally starter clutch will slip( coffee can full of nuts and bolts) eventually it starts , when it totally gives up , I will pull engine and split the case, I have a spare engine just in case.
     
  18. Ben Babuski

    Ben Babuski New Member

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    UPDATE: I refurbished the starter and it spins even stronger now, I put in JASO MA oil and replaced the filter, and the battery has been load-tested, but the problem still has not gone away. I really do not have the funds or the knowledge/skills to split the case and put in a new starter clutch, so I think I am going to sell the bike as is. It is a 1982 XJ 650 Maxim, and it is missing a horn, has a pretty crappy paint job, and one of the blinkers does not blink (it just stays solid), does anyone know where I could sell it?
     

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