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Two things that WILL keep you alive!

Discussion in 'Hangout Lounge' started by JeffK, Jun 5, 2017.

  1. JeffK

    JeffK Well-Known Member

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    I'm really glad to hear this being accepted, especially by the newer guys! Once you realize that despite what you might think, that car drivers brain is just not seeing and registering you even though you swear that he's looking right at you......you will understand the real NEED for you to break the plane of the background to draw attention to yourself. Don't, at your own peril.....

    jeff
     
  2. ManBot13

    ManBot13 Well-Known Member

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    I also find that there is a sequence when you approach the car, to maximize your potential for survival given the timing of when a car decides to roll forward.

    For instance, if a car is on your right looking to pull out and turn left crossing your lane, you need to first move from your current lane position towards the car as you approach. If the car was to start moving and not see you completing his lane change, the more likely location to be open would be behind it and by braking you give it the maximum time to leave you a space.

    As you get closer, there will be a "point of no return" where your best option is to speed up and pass in front of it (this is a very small space, dependant on your minimum braking distance). Shifting to the left side of the road sets you up for this contingency. It also accomplishes the weave, since you'll be moving side-to-side to set it up, and execute.

    Finally, how can you tell if a car is moving? Look at it's wheels. It is easier for YOUR eyes to detect a very small change in angular position of a wheel, than to detect the body of the car moving forward (your visual processing has it's limitations too). If you see wheel movement, then you immediately implement the bail out plan you were planning before. If you couldn't effectively plan a bail out, then SLOW DOWN! You need to give yourself the most possibilities for survival and enough time to plan and react.

    If you find it difficult to plan this, consider taking a break. It's a lot of mental work to ride a motorcycle, and giving yourself a break could be the difference between life or death. Also, expending the mental effort shows that you have the mental capacity to react. If you are day dreaming, you may feel fine but your brain is taking the same shortcuts as the cagers!
     
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  3. Kalikiano Kalei

    Kalikiano Kalei New Member

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    -----------------------------

    Jeff, I've taken the liberty of removing the middle section of this article in this quote simply for brevity in replying. Excellent thoughts on two critical subjects to us two-wheelers. Your braking commentary is very cogent and it's a well-documented fact that far too many riders lack even basic knowledge of how to use motorcycle brakes properly.

    What struck me about the section dealing with 'weaving' is that what was implied but unstated here is that a moving target is more likely to be noticed, as opposed to a still or steady one. This concept is underscored by the manner in which small prey such as 'snow-hares' in the Canadian north employ 'motionlessness' as very effective camouflage to avoid being detected by predators, despite the fact that they are in the open, exposed and otherwise unprotected. A moving hare, regardless of whether blending into the white backdrop of snow or not, is easily picked up by a hungry wolf, whereas one that is out in the open (against a snow background) may be entirely missed if it is motionless (as long as it is downwind of the predator). There is an apt analogue here for cyclists: a cyclist presenting a moving image to a motorist stands a markedly improved chance of being spotted at an intersection, as opposed to one that is moving slowly to an even stop. The 'weaving' motion you recommend augments any motion that a motorist may possibly pick up on, thereby exponentially increasing the odds of being seen.

    Tricks like that are invaluable if one wants to avoid ending up stuffed into the grill of a distracted motorist and many times they are not obvious to the average cyclist unless brought to his attention by an experienced cyclist such as yourself.

    In aviation we have a phrase that supports this wiser advice: "See and be seen". Motion increases the chance of being seed. Good on yah for offering up this nugget if wise motorcycling!

    One last thing: I spent many years in high-speed ADC jet fighter operations (with Convair F-106A/B 'Delta Darts'), often reaching beyond Mach 2.0 and 60,000 feet. Accordingly, at age 73, I've literally 'been there and done that', in terms of speed and extremes of travel. I know from those experiences that speed is greatly overrated and that once the youthful male hormones that promote needless preoccupations with speed (and fast maneuvering) have been worked through, one comes to an awareness that it is far more important, not to mention more pleasing and satisfying, to slow down and enjoy the ride. 'Stop to smell the flowers' is not just an old chestnut of archaic wisdom; it actually has substantial benefits. Case in point, my most formidable current machine is a Kawa Ninja that is rated at about 0-60 in 2.5 or so seconds. My previous 'suicycle' was a Yammy FZR1000 that had similarly insane capabilities. Despite this ability to meet God in less than 3 seconds flat, I am perfectly content to ride moderately and value person safety (for myself and others) far more than the ability to exceed Warp Factor 7.

    Thanks for taking the safety of your fellow cyclists as seriously as you do! I wish we had far more people like you on two-wheels! Again, paraphrasing another apt aviation aphorism: "There are old bikers and bold bikers, but few old, bold bikers".
     
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  4. Franz

    Franz Well-Known Member

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    Yes my father who was a Police officer used to say learn how the Police motorcyclists stay alive. A short course is run by the Fire Service free in the UK is Biker Down for accident management etc.
     
  5. Polock

    Polock Well-Known Member

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    it's better to be down here, wishing you were up there, than to be up there, wishing you were down here
     
  6. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Ill probaly be down there wishing I was up here
     
  7. hogfiddles

    hogfiddles XJ-Wizard, Host-Central NY Carb Clinic Moderator Premium Member

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    I don’t do a wide weave, but I do move around a fair bit. I was in a ride one time, and was compliment on how straight of I line I ride for the whole trip. Not long after, someone else commented on how with a rick-solid straight line, a motorcycle disappears into the background. THAT SCARED ME and stuck with me. Now, I INTENTIONALLY constantly drift from one side of the lane to the other in an irregular rhythm/pattern whenever other cars, trucks, OR bikes are are around. I WANT THEM TO BE WARY and unsure of me. THAT way they stay well away.
    I had guy ask why I can’t keep a straight line.... I told him that it’s not that I can’t— I most certainly can.....it’s that in traffic I WONT, to keep other drivers wary and alert to ME. That goes for bikes too.... I detest the lane-splitting/lane-sharing thing. It’s MY lane, so I can be in it wherever I dang well feel like being in it. A bike beside me is only gonna arrive a second or few ahead of when they’d arrive if the just stay back a bit. I do NOT ride “in formation” on ride I hang back a bit to keep some cushion of space. I don’t care if that annoys someone. SAFETY first for me. Sometimes people gun past me — really.... I’m totally unimpressed that you can hit the throttle and make a lot of noise, then you hafta hit the brakes and slow down to the same speed you were already going. See, I may be hanging back a bit, but I’m not going slower.im moving the saammmeee speed as everyone else. I just have a little maneuvering room in my escape route.
     
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  8. kerriskandiesinc

    kerriskandiesinc Active Member

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    I couldn't EVER ride without 'filtering' or lane splitting, as you lot call it.....it was drilled into us....by our instructors, by the Police even, that a motorcycle is pretty much USELESS unless its moving.....siting in traffic jams...in the rain/winter..no heater, no radio....what are you even riding the thing for, lol, if NOT to make more progress than the tin boxes around you!

    I do it to this day...even though it's 'illegal' in most of the States I ride in

    I can't group ride, it strikes me as one of the most dangerous rides ever...and as for 'buddy' riding, side by side, who EVER thought that was safe??...if one of the riders needs to weave to avoid.....anything, well, he's taking his mate next door with him!! We were taught staggered formation, when line riding, to view as much of the road ahead of the rider in front of you as possible !

    I'm with you on the lane weave though.... anything that gets the drivers attention to us, is worth it, but lights on, daytime are just as useless as 'dayglo' vests, these days

    In the late 80's, neon lit London/Manchester etc, I did an experiment, while couriering, for a whole 6? months, I eschewed my orange/white lid, blue and white courier bib, lights on ( we could still turn them off, UK in those days) I matt blacked my old 900R Kawasaki, I had a LOUD but NOT obnoxious exhaust, I rode , for the most part aggressively, maintaining my part of the road, making myself loud, blacked out and obvious..........do you know, I 'unofficially' recorded less people 'pulling out' on me, then almost ever before...I THINK my silhouette, amongst the brightly coloured signs, road furniture, grass, cars even stood out as unusual.....and THATS what caused drivers to think once think twice......what IS that?...Oh blimey, its a big bike, better keep the brakes on 'till he's passed..........Of course, at night I had my lights on, and may have blended in even more, but certainly during daylight hours......it was somewhat eye opening .....and certainly saved me from more evasive maneuvers, and possible hospital visits !!
     
  9. Timbox

    Timbox Well-Known Member

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    I guess we all have our comfort range when it comes to riding in a lane. I chose to crowed the center line so that it makes on coming traffic feel intimidated as to how close I am to crossing. I can tell when they start to drift away from the line a bit they see me. With more and more cell phone use this has become a concern for me and I am extra wary when I ride. Used to be a joy all the time but those coffins with wheels and phones to distract me are starting to take their toll on my joy of riding. I see the point of moving in your lane, but in my area I don't want to give our hard working police officers any more reason to be pulling me over. I can see them have me on camera for erratic driving and pull me over to check if I have been drinking. I know it is not that much swaying but I just don't want add to suspicion of braking the law.

    As for lane splitting I get it, some states have it and as long as I am used to it and trust my driving, let them pass me or what ever. Driving in big groups I only do for a cause, Holiday, fund raiser type riding. I have been on the DC loop a few times, you really have to keep your head moving as those cross cars always want to brake into the loop. This is even with lights on police escorts and (brake down) trucks mingled in among the riders.

    I as a rider will not have one beer and ride. If I plan on riding there is no drinking that day or night before. This is just me, I am not as fast in my reflexes as I used to be when I was in my 20's. With me slowing down and other drivers not paying attention to their driving, just need to take that risk factor out of the equation.

    This is just MHO
     
  10. 50gary

    50gary Active Member

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    Yep, and it's a lie, but a believable lie so they use it to cover the own butt. I've been hit three times. once one my BMW (pick-up left turn) and twice on bicycles, plenty of flight time on all three.
    Drivers go by the code; "The survival of the biggest"
    That is, if they are wanting to make the infamous left turn in front of traffic, the brain automatically does a computation, is my vehicle bigger than the one coming at me? If it's a motorcycle, it's a go, if it's a small car probably a go if it's a big assed semi truck, it's "I'll wait."
    Cheers, 50gary
     
  11. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    if you are in a 40mph zone going 65 mph maybe you should accept some responsibility for a crash as you discribed.
    I'm no saint when it comes to my rate of speed but I do know where I can roll on the throttle and where I should not .
    I make myself visible wearing a floresent green sweat shirt over my gear. lane position changes with whats in front of me combined with what is coming at me.
    had my share of being cut off,started wearing the sweat shirt last season with my new color not a single incendant
    the swerve is also in my tool box when in areas where I may blend in and with lots of cross roads.e
    end of day I do not want to be laying in the ground saying I had the right of way.
    being right and dead is no victory.

    edit: I did have one cut off last season 2 motorcycles came ripping out of a gas station. wtf
     
  12. Franz

    Franz Well-Known Member

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  13. Mechajob

    Mechajob New Member

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    Jeffk, Thank you for this thread. I've been riding on and off for over 30 years and honestly never heard of the Weave. I have never taken a course and I'm in my 50's and consider taking one. My wife just got her permit last year and we both practice in empty parking lots almost every time we ride. She took the course and dumped the bike twice before the second day and was failed out. I've been told that wasn't right and i agree,(what the @#$#@ is the course for if not to correct her mistakes??) also no refund. I will be looking for another course this spring/summer that we both can take. Again thanks for the great advise Jeff i will employ the weave in my travels.
     
  14. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    dumping the bike is reason to be failed in the course. what was the manuver she was attempting that caused her to dump the bike?

    did they supply the motorcycle or did she for the course? What bike was used?


    check out this guy on youtube
    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mcrider
     
  15. Franz

    Franz Well-Known Member

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    Guy you refer too gives good advice on youtube XJ 550. Here is an advert from the 1970's.

     
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  16. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    excellent ad for the auto driver. it also drives home the point for motorcyclists
     
  17. Franz

    Franz Well-Known Member

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    l am more wary now, when l was young l was lucky a few times. Slightly too fast into corners and lucky enough to stop once when a driver pulled out in front of me. My father used to take me out on his bike so to some extent l had an understanding of potential dangers.
     
  18. Mechajob

    Mechajob New Member

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    I didn't go with her, but from what i understand they were teaching braking into a corner. I have talked with others who have taken the course and as long as it was not dumped during the test on the second day they were allowed to continue but maybe its different from course/teacher. They supplied the bike. Was a small 250. May have been a rebel like what we bought for her but not sure.
     
  19. Huntchuks

    Huntchuks Well-Known Member

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    My son took a course to get his license last year. I had no idea there was such a thing. They used little 250's also.
     
  20. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    most courses use the small bikes. and suggest not going wild on size on your first bike then upgrade after a year
     

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