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XJ600/FJ600 51J Project Advice

Discussion in 'XJ Modifications' started by Ciarán, May 12, 2020.

  1. bensalf

    bensalf Well-Known Member

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    i had to do exactly the same with my front calipers , i found spraying through the passages with wd40 got rid of most of the grease ,(i used a full can on them) then with brake / carb cleaner, just to make sure, they work fine, no problem.
    stu:)
     
  2. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Get as much out as you can with your fingers and some cotton swabs. Follow up with the degreaser or carb cleaner of your choice.
     
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  3. Ciarán

    Ciarán Member

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    Thanks for the comments.

    I think the brakes are now clean, as much as they're likely to be anyway. I'm not entirely confident they're safe to use, I know some wear on the face outside of the seals is acceptable but there's a weird discolouration deep within the pots. I'll post pics shortly.

    The major discovery of all this, and presumably the reason the brakes were so solidly seized was the complete absence of the outer seal (dust I presume) from both calipers (all 4 pots were lacking the seal). Frankly I'm amazed the brakes weren't in worse condition.

    I'm currently shopping for a master cylinder setup for the bike. New MCs are bloody expensive so I'm considering finding a 22mm mount MC from a fairly modern midsized sportbike. Picking a bike at random to give an example, let's say an MC from a Honda CB500rr, it's probably a lighter bike but with more aggressive braking characteristics.

    Although, thinking it through will I need an MC from a pre-abs bike if I'm going the second hand route?
     
  4. a100man

    a100man Well-Known Member

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    I think my M/C is from a GPZ550 fwiw. Pick something close and you'll not go far wrong. I might even have chosen that one as I could buy a cheap rebuild kit for it..;)
     
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  5. Dave in Ireland

    Dave in Ireland Well-Known Member

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    Assuming the XJ600F uses the same brakes as the 900F, to keep the hydraulic leverage the same I would recommend the m/c from a Honda NT600v Deauville, as it has a nice span-adjustable lever and is just nicer to use. I've been using them on most of my bikes for a few years now.
    Late 90s / early 2000 ones had a mirror perch on them, too.

    Oddly, the XJ900F master cylinder was fitted to my GS long before I bought an XJ, as it was a better feeling m/c than the old Suzuki one - same bore, much better control.
    I'm quite happy with the brakes on the XJ, but if I have to replace the m/c it will be a Deauville one that goes on.
     
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  6. Ciarán

    Ciarán Member

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    Thanks for all the comments. As promised yesterday here are some pics of the internals of the brakes. I still hadn't pulled the seals or finished cleaning when I took these pics.
    I'm anxious they're not safe to use again. Unfortunately full rebuild kits are also out of stock in the store I use so even if I bought second hand brakes from a breaker I wouldn't be able to progress the brakes much.

    I've been looking around and I've seen a new nissin master cylinder 5/8" advertised in a few places that is on sale for about €120. Seems like a good deal on a brand new set up.

    Hope to order that soon. Then I guess it is time to sort out throttle and clutch cables and brake lines.

    Disassembly of the rear brake and master cylinder is high on the list of jobs too.

    I'm taking my sweet time thinking over every part I want/can afford at the moment but mainly it's about getting this thing mid way road worthy to see what needs fettling.
     

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  7. Ciarán

    Ciarán Member

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    Ok so I've just forked over a lot of money for a range of parts. Some are cosmetic which may seem premature but given I was paying shipping charges anyways I took advantage of it to get a few basic items.
    Louis:
    - New throttle and clutch cables (c.€27)
    - New grips (€10)
    - Chain & Sprocket - DID 530VX (€117)
    - New mirrors (old ones were in terrible condition and I hated the look of them) (€49 for two)
    - Chain breaker and riveter (I'm such a beginner at all this - I didn't have one!) (€35)
    CarpiMoto
    - Nissin Master Cylinder (€129 including shipping).

    Tonight I may order HEL braided lines (front €128, rear €43).

    I have successfully removed my old Master Cylinder (had to drill the heads of the screws and then grab the nubs that were left to turn them out). So I had the option of refurbishing the old master cylinder but it's a pretty nasty looking unit now at a cost of €70 for a full refurb kit. I just felt the brand new Nissin was the better choice and required less effort. I'll consider trying to tidy up the MC as best I can to keep it as a spare or potentially to ebay it. The inside of the sight bubble is horribly dirty but I've made some progress in cleaning it. I may invest in a small ultrasonic cleaner at some point but any of the ones I've seen have looked like absolute rubbish or have been ludicrously expensive.

    My main issue now is to determine if the calipers are salvageable (I suspect not) or should be replaced. Opinions welcome based on pics above. If required I can provide more.
     
  8. Kickaha

    Kickaha Active Member Premium Member

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    Is that the same size as the stock one ? changing the size up and down from standard can make a huge difference to the way it feels and not always for the better
     
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  9. Ciarán

    Ciarán Member

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    Both are 5/8" pistons so I'm hopeful it will be similar. I'll admit I took a chance on it as a beginner at all this. I think there could be quite a lot of work in fully restoring the stock MC I have and there's always a risk in buying second hand parts that they'll also need full refurb. So, the short answer is - I won't know for sure how it performs until I get the bike properly roadworthy and can test it - frankly that's a long way away just yet.

    I'm trying to get it to a point that it is rideable to determine whether I really want to sink the cost in for a new exhaust system, taking on wiring, painting etc.
     
  10. a100man

    a100man Well-Known Member

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    Hi Ciaran, since you are this side of the Atlantic you can try Yambits for brake refurb parts, The calipers look ok to me but once you pull the seals you need to scrape all the corrosion from behind them in the grooves with a plastic or wooden pick. pistons and seals are 25 quids a go and so is the master rebuild kit. If you're going to order a heap of stuff then consider using XJ4ever on here postage won't then be so bad.
     
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  11. Ciarán

    Ciarán Member

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    Wow thanks for that - I don't think I'd seen yambits before! Those parts look a lot more reasonable than some prices for kits I'd seen on wemoto (I buy from them a fair bit and I find them very good). Delighted that the calipers may be worth saving. Will give them a good clean up and hope for the best.

    Wow the prices for the repair kit for the front MC are insanely different - £53.53 vs £24.99!
     
  12. a100man

    a100man Well-Known Member

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    You can also use a bit of fine scotchbrite to clean teh caliper bores..;)

    PS Did we ever establish where you are in Ireland?
     
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  13. bensalf

    bensalf Well-Known Member

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  14. Ciarán

    Ciarán Member

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    Thanks a million. High on my list of priorities to get those calipers rebuilt. The nissin master cylinder arrived. Have to say I'm amazed it came from Italy probably within about 36 hours of ordering.

    I'm in Dublin but I'm originally from Mayo.

    @bensalf My bike is registered 1990 but is a 1989 model so I think those may be slightly different. I'll shop round for the lines before I order - but I think the price for them from wemoto is actually a few quid less that direct from Hel (I was looking yesterday but don't have figures to hand).

    I'll keep an eye out for a box large enough to send the crash guard and pannier frames to you - I haven't forgotten.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
  15. a100man

    a100man Well-Known Member

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    HI Ciaran

    Sounds like it's coming together nicely. I know the owner of bike shop in Dublin (not well, but well enough) should you ever need close by help.

    Cheers
     
  16. Ciarán

    Ciarán Member

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    Ok so I'll try and get some pics up tomorrow but pending sourcing a few parts I decided to crack on with a few jobs. I have removed the rear brake (should have done this sooner) and found it too is in a sorry state. I'm assuming it's the same as the front left caliper but didn't get a chance to do a side-by-side comparison. Given the affordability of rear brakes I'll consider getting a master cylinder and brembo caliper from the same supplier I got the new master cylinder set up from.

    I decided I wanted to take the controls apart (I intend to replace all the original switchgear in time). I started on the clutch side and broke a part that I don't see in the parts diagrams. It was effectively a plastic sleeve over the handlebar with a plastic ring and essentially something akin to a rubber washer that faced up against the switchgear on the outside i.e. it would run up against 4 in the parts image below. I'm wondering if it's a non stock part that was associated with the heated grips that were on the bike previously that I don't need to worry about replacing?

    [​IMG]

    If I'm honest the project has been scaring me lately and I haven't really known where to get stuck in. I'm also trying to figure out where I want to get to in the end. At this point I think I'm going to try and focus on getting the brakes sorted, new drive components, and then wheel bearings, new tyres etc. If I can take it for a very short ride at that stage I will then move on to a more complete tear down.

    I know I'm getting way ahead of myself but I was looking at the rear end of the bike and I actually still quite like the proportions but my main issue is disliking the rear mudguard. I'm considering taking a hacksaw (metaphorically so) to the mudguard and sanding back to the level of the undertray. This will be a fair weather bike for short trips to cafés on the coast so I'm not concerned re water being thrown up by the rear wheel. Wondering if any one has done the same while retaining the standard rear end? I reckon it will give the bike a slightly sportier profile for no cost at all.

    *Edit: This person seems to have done something similar (pic). The rear end is stock but mudguard has been trimmed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020
  17. a100man

    a100man Well-Known Member

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    HI Ciaran

    If you can try and just do one or two jobs art a time then stick them back on the bike. eg. refurb front brakes - stick em back on, replace front wheel bearing - stick it back on etc.. That way you don't have to catalogue and store all the loose bits and hopefully
    it won't get too disheartening. There's always more to do on these things than meets the eye - like buying an old house - it take time to uncover and correct the previous bodges. Doing the spanner work should be part of the joy f owning the machine.

    PS - Mudguard? Hack away! there's not many that haven't bee shortened over time.
     
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  18. Ciarán

    Ciarán Member

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    Thanks for the feedback. Yeah I had intended to be more focused but I've been a bit stuck for some parts - TRK make a full refurb kit for the front brakes that is currently out of stock but due back in soon. It's cheaper than buying new pistons, seals etc. individually.

    I have brake lines on the way too. Brakes don't worry me as I've worked on them before so I don't mind tackling other parts for now.

    I'm feeling a little more confident now that I'm actually getting stuck in though. Long run the wiring is the only part that full on terrifies me but I'm coming round to the idea of using a motogadget m unit when I get to that point.

    Did a crappy bit of paint work on the left bar last night to just get a sense that I'm doing something at all. Will probably strip it in future and try do a better job.

    As for the plastic cap with Yamaha on it (see pic of bars) - it's damaged and I don't particularly see any reason for it. I'd rather not break it completely but I haven't been able to see a way to remove it other than brute force. Anyone know more?
     

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  19. GoCrazy

    GoCrazy Member

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    Hey, I have just logged on after a long break from the forum and found your thread. Not mamy XJ600 bikes here :)
    I have recently resumed my work on my 1990 XJ600.
    I went with XJ550 tank and custom seat made of fibreglass.

    IMG_20200714_223048.jpg
     
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  20. Ciarán

    Ciarán Member

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    @GoCrazy yours looks really well. I may have to pick your brains about the side panels - I have an idea for some but I'll possibly only go that route if I swap to pod filters.

    This evening I roughly trimmed the rear mudguard back a bit but it's by no means done. When I take apart the rear end I'll bring the plastic back flush with the undertray.

    As for the rear brake the pistons were well and truly stuck. As you can see in the pictures I have developed a but of a system for stuck pistons. Where one piston wants to come out and the other won't budge you can try and do something like I've done to pin the free moving piston in place - thereby forcing the opposing piston to budge under pressure from the grease gun.

    In my case I actually had removed the free moving piston - the wood forms a good enough seal over the bore and as you can see - the piston came free. At least it looks like the rear brake had both seals - unlike the front.
    IMG_20200812_185243.jpg IMG_20200812_185311.jpg IMG_20200812_222933.jpg IMG_20200812_222435.jpg IMG_20200812_222439_1.jpg

    Edit: My braided brake lines just arrived - I won't bother fitting them until I get the new seals and pistons for the brakes.

    Priority for now is to clean the calipers and rebuild them when parts are available. Putting those to one side I might look at taking off the rear wheel and trying to sort that out. New bearings etc.
     

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    Last edited: Aug 12, 2020

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