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The dreaded starter grind... sometimes

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by jpacman, Oct 25, 2020.

  1. jpacman

    jpacman Member

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    I did read a bunch of previous posts concerning starters not engaging but I want to share my experience on the topic. Bike: '82 XJ750 Maxim, 24k on the clock, I bought it @ approx. 17k (about 7-8 years ago). It's no garage queen, as you can see. The bike is functional and great fun to ride. DSC01319 - Copy.JPG

    Everyone always asks what else has been done to the bike: Brakes and brake lines, wheel and head bearings, tank sealant, flat handlebars, carbs cleaned and rebuilt, valves checked and adjusted, clutch replaced, fuse block replaced, all cables, all LED lighting, non-Maxim to exhaust bent to fit, progressive fork springs and 10w oil, Progressive heavy duty shocks 1" longer than stock, blah, blah, blah. Countless hours spent here on research.

    Symptoms: Occasionally, the starter does not engage but grinds instead. This happens less than 10% of the time whether the bike is warm or cold.

    1. I have used Castrol dino juice 20w40 since I took ownership of this machine. Oil and filter are changed at least once/year even with relatively low mileage accumulation.
    2. The starter was rebuilt this spring at a local, experienced-with-old-bikes, shop. Didn't help the grinding.
    3. When the starter doesn't engage, I leave the bike in gear with the clutch engaged, rock it backwards from the seated position turning the motor over a bit, and try again. This works every time to get the starter to engage and get the bike started.

    90% of the time, the starter (and presumably the starter clutch) work just fine. So what's happening the other 10% of the time?
     
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  2. Yammaat

    Yammaat Active Member

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    Nice bike!
     
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  3. Toomanybikes

    Toomanybikes Well-Known Member

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    So when it sounds like a can of rocks that’s the starter clutch skipping.
     
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  4. jpacman

    jpacman Member

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    Shit.... Well, alright then. Guess I'll start the fixes in the order that have been previously prescribed. I'm a pretty decent mechanic so maybe I'll even try the arthroscopic surgery from the stator side. If that fails, I'll sell it before I remove the motor and split the cases. Not in the cards. Shouldn't have sold it's twin brother this summer.
     
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  5. Fuller56

    Fuller56 Well-Known Member

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    If you have the bike built the way you like it keep it! I am no great mechanic and I did a starter clutch on a XJ900 a couple of years ago. It seems intimidating but once committed to it is not so bad. Once the engine is out and upside down it can be done in an hour or so. The engine actually went back in easier than it came out, or maybe that was just perception? Get the engine loose, lay the bike on it's side and wiggle the bike off the reclining engine.

    Or get a gynecologist to help you fix the starter clutch in place!

    Good Luck,
    John
     
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  6. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Slow down. Start with the easy things

    have the battery load tested.
    Have you ever disassembled the starter for inspection and service? Even good shops mess up occasionally.
    If the starter is not spinning fast enough the starter clutch will slip.

    The older posts about repairing the starter clutch without opening the cases are not relevant to the shaft-driven XJ series of engines, even though a few people claimed that it’s possible. It simply is not.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
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  7. jpacman

    jpacman Member

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    The battery tests OK and the starter spins up nice and healthy when it connects. It was 40F the other morning and it cranked over speedily and the bike started right up. The battery is one of those expensive ($100 maybe), AGM, no-maintenance batteries. Not lithium-ion ($175) but a good battery.

    I have not taken the starter apart myself. I'm sure there's info here telling me what to look for. I was charged around $80 for parts and labor to rebuild it. Don't remember exactly what they replaced as it's not one of those places that gives you an itemized invoice.

    OK, so if the starter sounds healthy and looks good on the inside, should I proceed to light weight oils injected into the starter mounting hole followed by several oil changes with 20w40?

    The occasional nature of the failure is what gets me. More history: I think that's why the PO sold it to me for $300. Yes, it needed everything else done to it that a 30+ year old bike that's been sitting needs to have done to it make it truly road safe. This was my second '82 750 Maxim rebuild so I kinda knew what I was getting into to reverse many years of maintenance neglect.

    OK, I'm done trying avoid the issue. I'll follow the plan, be diligent and thoughtful, and above all else, patient in my approach to this problem. Just REALLY don't want to remove the motor.

    Thank you, sensei, for your sage words.
     
  8. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    I'd go ahead and plan on either living with it for a season or two (the bike is pretty easy to bump start), or doing the starter clutch and alternator chain guide this winter.
     
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  9. jpacman

    jpacman Member

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    Besides being a minor annoyance and attracting the attention of onlookers, are there any long-term affects from the starter clutch not engaging? I mean, that sound is really bad when it doesn't catch. What else is getting damaged when it doesn't work properly?
     
  10. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Nothing.

    Keep in mind though that the alternator chain guide fails from age. The plastic becomes brittle and eventually breaks apart. Opening the cases is an eventuality, not a thing to avoid forever.
     
  11. Franz

    Franz Well-Known Member

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    Removing the motor and splitting the cases is not so bad once you get started. When I did mine the worst part was the two studs at the front of the cam tunnel were corroded, had to get a shop to repair it.
     
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  12. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    My starter clutch would slip when hot , keep trying it would eventually hit , I had bought another engine off of Joe Eliff had 38k on it had it sitting for two years , finally decided I would swap engines ...why did I wait so long "new" engine runs so good before I swapped pulled oil pan very clean inside. Adjusted valve clearance , and replaced clutch disk it was time , so nice to have engine hot shut off ,and start right up. My intentions are to tear down original engine and replace starter clutch , ordered both starter clutch and a repair kit( springs and roller) still will need to order chain guide , bike has roughly 20k if I believe original odometer . Removing engine is not real hard if you still have center stand , floor jack ,two by four about two to three feet in length ,and a good sturdy milk crate , a long pry bar . You will also need a 10mm,12mm,13mm , 14mm 17mm wrench and sockets ...beer helps to. The oil needs to be drained and the oil filter housing removed, pull carbs and disconnect all electrical connections on the engine ...LABEL them and take a picture too , a trick Joe Eliff showed me is to use an old tire to put engine in , this will keep engine from getting scratched up from concrete floor and you can put engine upside down without marring or scratching valve cover . I know member Franz and Kmoe have replaced starter clutch so I'm planning to do mine in spring .Cheers
     
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