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4Th gear slipping or what

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by iwasatoad, Mar 26, 2006.

  1. iwasatoad

    iwasatoad Member

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    Well iv been waiting all month to pick up my bike and on 3/26 i finely went to baraboo wisconsin and road it back to tomah well it was about 33 or 34F out so it was a relly cold ride but once i got of I-90\I-94 and got on to
    US Hwy12\16 i decided id open her up a bit and back off well 1st,2nd,3rd all came real quick along with 4th but when i shifted from 3rd to 4th at 80mph(aprox was watching the road more than my spedo) noticed my tach started bouncing RPM's it went up to like 9,000rpm's then back to 8,000RPM's and back up to 8,500RPM's and back to 7,800RPM,s i mean it just went all over the upper RPM,range.

    but the hole time it was doing this i was still using full throttel well i decided to shift to 5th shortly after that and it dident do it any more so i slowed back down to 65 and shifted into 3rd and back on full throttel agin the tach climed to 9,000RPM's fine shifted to 4TH and it started doing it agin so i backed off the throttel and held my spead and it stoped doing it.


    What could this be my first instinct is clutch but 1st,2nd and,3rd nevet sliped or 5th on full throttel just 4th well i mean the gear could be striped but wouldnet i hear a grinding sould or have slower accel and it had neather. any info would be nice my only outher thought was that maby the gear for the tach is stripped or somting and in 1,2,3 it accels to quick to ever bounce but then why dosent it in 5th any idease would be nice
     
  2. woot

    woot Active Member

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    Did the engine change pitch? Did the road speed change?

    I don't think it could be related to forth gear as if was you'd have more feel than just the tach jumping.

    I'd suspect rather the tach jumping is related to an old tach cable or the internals of the cluster need some attention.

    That being said - clutch slippage can happen under heavy load - if you think it is that the adjust the clutch cable. If the cable is too tight then the clutch isn't allowed to fully engage and this can cause slipping.

    I don't like the clutch slip idea, however, as why didn't it slip in 3rd and 5th? If you only went up hills in 4th and down hills in 5th then maybe...

    More info :D
     
  3. woot

    woot Active Member

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  4. iwasatoad

    iwasatoad Member

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    well i was thinking of that hill idea i and i guess i dident type any of that in when i tesed this it was a straight level road for about 5 miles that i tryed it on and i never thought of the load thing because i can (not reguarly) drop the clutch in to into 3rd and 5th at high rpm so it drops like 3,000rpm and it jurks the biek foward and the tach drop's the RPM's and dosent seem to slip all though i get what your saying given the new info do you think it could be this the clutch is brand new i guess i should throw that in it has 300miles on it and was adjusted the first time by a certifyed yamaha mechanic and once agin before i picked it up by the same mechanic could it be that the inside of the tach is slipping or durty or somting i mean it only happens in 4th no where els any more info would be nice thanks all l8r
     
  5. iwasatoad

    iwasatoad Member

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    i will Lube to day and see if that fixes it but since it only hapens in 4th i dont think that is it
     
  6. woot

    woot Active Member

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    Well - the tach is fed from the power side not the gear side... meaning the tach has no idea what gear you are in so it *shouldn't* be affected by anything other than engine speed.

    Hang - on - is your's a mechanical tach or an electic tach?
     
  7. richard03

    richard03 Member

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    Stupid Question:
    Could this be related to your speedometer cable problem?
     
  8. iwasatoad

    iwasatoad Member

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    well ya know i dont relly know if it's an electric tach or not i guess i never looked it's the stock tach for a 82 maxim 750 where all the gauges are in one housing. but i have found that it dose it in outher gears i just never pulled the throttel as far back in 1st and 2nd or 3rd. I re dignosed it and i think the clutch is sliping or that's what came to since the clutch only has 400milse on it along with all new rings and every thing els.


    I talked to a re-tired/disabled mechanic and he said that it's proebely due to the new clutch he took it down the road and came back and said that's what he would think he said it could be re-adjusted but it would proebely start sliping agin in a few hundred miles he said there is a 1,000mile break in time for the clutch to wear offf the polish look to it and then you readjust it and its good to go.

    the only odd thing is if im in 5th and doing 45-55 and pull the trottel all the way back it dosent slip but dose in all the outher gears but ill take his word for it because after riding it and thinking about it it right when it hit's around 6k RPMs that it starts to do it and is far from loosing power or accel and no funny nosies so i think i found what it is
     
  9. Robert

    Robert Active Member

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    Break in time for a clutch? Never heard of such a thing. Bedding it like a brake pad I'll buy (which occurs in minutes, not days, but should be unnecessary unless your using some exotic material) but I cannot see for the life of me where you would have to break in a clutch. The material shouldn't need 1,000 to do anything but couple your motor to the drive. All the new clutches I've installed have, without exception, been tight as a gnats wazoo from the word go, bikes and cars. To refer to your tach, it should be mechanical, your J model being a little mix of the old and the new. From what I could see in the Haynes, you have an LCD readout but still retain the mechanical tach ('82 XJ750R right?). The quick and dirty way to determine which your tach is is to examine the front of your bike looking at the exhaust down tubes. Between the tubes you should see a cable going into the front of the motor on the left hand side (as you stand in front of the bike) just below the valve cover. It should route up to the right side (as you sit on the bike) of the bike into the instrument cluster. If there is no cable attached to the front of the motor, your tach is reading the pulses from your coils. I'm as baffled as the rest of you fellas given that it only slips in one gear, so I'm going to side that there is a fourth gear issue. Clutches slip consistantly in all gears if it's worn (at least to my experience, and I've blown a few, get cars cheap that way). If there were syncros in these machines I'd bet it was a bad blocking ring but since there aren't any, there goes that bright idea. Toad, could you pull a few more clues out for us please? I'm burning brain cells trying to think of what is up in your machine.
     
  10. woot

    woot Active Member

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    Plus if you were breaking in a clutch imagine all the crap in your oil!?!

    I say that the clutch cable is too tight - loosen it off half a turn and see if it helps. If it does then turn it another half turn and see if it goes away completely.

    Without riding a bike it is hard to tell if the clutch is fully engaging or not - I'd suspect this before I suspected breaking the clutch in...
     
  11. BlueMaxim

    BlueMaxim Active Member

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    Ok '82 Maxim 750 has an electric tach. When the tach goes erratic check what RPM it does it at. Then hit the same RPM in a different gear. A cold solder joint in the TCI can cause erratic tach behaviour. Mine did this. Along with the tach I also had a rough engine. When I dropped the RPM below 4500 all went away. I replaced the TCI and no problems since.
     
  12. RobsTV

    RobsTV Member

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    Exact same problem occur with my '82 XJ750J Maxim.
    Besides seeing the tach jump, you could here engine rev higher.
    Bike had 20,000 miles, and was in storage last 10 years.
    Clutches are too simple to change.
    Doesn't even lose a drop of oil.
    Old clutches looked fine, but replaced anyway.
    New clutch discs are much better, but it still slips slightly when under load at high RPM's (above 6000RPM's).

    Clutch adjustment is also foolproof, with a little play in clutch lever when released, so that can be ruled out.

    I am starting to think it may be oil type related.
    Using Castrol GTX 20w50, and here in Florida temp never drops below 60F.
    I did not see any Energy Star or special friction reducing label on the Castrol.

    BTW, speedo and tach hands snapped off on a power riding trip, so replaced all w/computer (tach is electric driven), and it made no difference.
     
  13. woot

    woot Active Member

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    If the engine revs then it is slipping - if it is a new clutch then it could be the oil or it could be the clutch cable needs lengthening.

    I use the same oil and no problems here - with what I think is an original clutch.

    The TCI thought from BlueMaxim is a good one if the engine stutters ( not revs)...
     
  14. RobsTV

    RobsTV Member

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    I also did not replace the clutch springs, so that will probably be next step.
     
  15. woot

    woot Active Member

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    That's a valid point... hadn't thought about the springs- John had problems finding springs for his Maxim X... although it should be easier to find non-X springs.
     
  16. richard03

    richard03 Member

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    On the clutch break in - my car's clutch came with a disclaimer saying that it needed to be broken in (Luk clutch - high quality). In fact, when I started using it, I did notice that it got better over 50 miles or so. So there could be something to that. Although a car's clutch is different because it is dry.
     
  17. davidjrmy

    davidjrmy New Member

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    I have read somewhere about people having that problem if they have used some synthetic oils and not cleaned it all out REALLY good with a product like seafoam or B12 Chemtool. I guess it sticks too well to the wet clutch and causes some slippage. So you might try a good crankcase cleaning.
     
  18. Brian750R

    Brian750R Member

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    Synthetic oil would not be any diffrent then regular oil in that case, Synthetics advantage is that is doesnt break down nearly as fast, and all the molecules are the same size. More likely the problems you read about stemmed from the fact that it was probably SJ oil with friction modifiers in it, not because it was sythetic. SJ "energy conserving" oil has teflon and other chemicals in it, that are used in cars, to reduce friction there by increasing HP, and Fuel economy, and lowering engine temps. However this oil is not designed for, and will not work correctly with a wet Clutch. Always check the back of the container when buying oil for a bike with a wet clutch, that in the SAE circle on the back where it says SJ or SE so on, and so forth that it doesnt say "energy Conserving" or anything that sounds similar.
     
  19. Robert

    Robert Active Member

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    You nailed it Rich, wet clutches are just a bit different. Luc makes a fine clutch (I run that or a Sachs in my VW's) but I have never noticed any difference in my clutches from first use into the first year. Strange, I'll pay a little more attention on the next clutch I replace (truck is comming due, its been 4 years). When I've done my clutches on my bikes, I always replace not only the friction disks, but the springs as well. Cheap insurance.
     
  20. iwasatoad

    iwasatoad Member

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    will be adjusting clutch to day once it get a littel warmer out and see if that helps out any i was not aware that thease bikes did not have synro's i guess that's why dose that cause the wiseling or wining noice when ideling along or runing high rpm's because my bike has wisel\winding noise to it when running in gear (my brouther's porsche did this to it was and old 924 with no synro's) he said that's why it had that winey noise to it when in gear
     

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