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Bad Experience with Rattle Can Flat Black

Discussion in 'Hangout Lounge' started by ManBot13, May 17, 2009.

  1. ManBot13

    ManBot13 Well-Known Member

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    I was trying to rattle can my headlight bucket flat black because the chrome was in bad shape, and plan to do the turn signals and mounting brackets too (they're suzuki apparently). I know there might be better options in painting, but the can is the only thing I can do since don't have the tools or money to do it any more professionally.

    I tried using Rustoleum flat black over their automotive primer in a can and really liked the color and texture that I got. Then I read the label more closely and it mentioned clear coat. Not wanting to forgo the protection that clear coat supposedly has to offer (I don't want to disconnect all those cables again!) but also not wanting the surface to turn out glossy, I went in search of a "flat" clear at the local Home Depot and Lowes. I found one at Lowes that was Valspar, asked an employee if it would be ok to use it over Rustoleum, got an OK then was on my way.

    I sanded down some orange peel that I noticed, put another coat of flat black on and let is dry for about 30 min. Then I sprayed the clear. When I did it bubbled up, fizzy like a soda, and turned the paint job gray :x . Paint job ruined, I spent the rest of the night with a bottle of Mineral Spirits :cry: . I tried spraying it on a test piece that I was just using for the color, and it seemed to do the same thing.

    What went wrong? Was it the mixing of brands? Does "flat" clear mean it bubbles up to remove the shine? I'm going to try a few other things on test pieces this time and see what I come up with but I was looking for anyone else's experiences with flat black rattle can paint.
     
  2. wingnut325

    wingnut325 Member

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    Sounds like you put a polyurethane clear over lacquer. They don't like each other at all. It may have worked if the lacquer was really cured hard but then again maybe not. I'd forgo the clear and bake the lacquer. Just don't let SWMBO catch you with it in her oven
     
  3. ManBot13

    ManBot13 Well-Known Member

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    Both were enamel.
     
  4. Desinger_Mike

    Desinger_Mike Member

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    I've have had similar bad luck with the rustoleum "automotive" primer.
    I won't use it again.
    I used a different primer (I think I used the self-etch) and no problems.
     
  5. chacal

    chacal Moderator Moderator Supporting Vendor Premium Member

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    The solvents in the clear coat are attacking the solids or the solvents in the primer. A common problem when mixing paints from different manufacturers...........
     
  6. SLKid

    SLKid Active Member

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    One of the guys on here warned me previously about that. I'm currently doing a flat black on my bike for now as well.
    Test piece
    Test Piece
    TEST PIECE
    Was the major suggestion. Always test. I'm using Krylon Rust Protection Enamel. Not reeaaaally a primer, but it'll work for now.
    -SLK
     
  7. jmelton

    jmelton Member

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    I had a similar problem when I painted my bike. When i sprayed the clear on it bubled and wrinkled and pulled up from the metal. Heres what worked for me.

    Took paint off, sanded area, primered let dry about 2 hours. sprayed on my flat black- let dry over nite . then spayed on the clear.
    Sanding and primering will help the paint adhere to your metal, especially chrome. You have to let the flat dry completely or there will be a chemical reaction when you spay the clear. after i did that it worked fine.
     
  8. ManBot13

    ManBot13 Well-Known Member

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    jmelton, How completely should I wait for the flat black to dry? It says clear within 1 hour or after 48 on the can, does that sound right? Also did use use the same brands of paint and did you use a "flat" clear? What kind of paint were you using?
     
  9. jmelton

    jmelton Member

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    ManBot13, i used Rustoleum- primer, Rustoleum flat black and a Rustoleum satin finish clear. The first time i did it i only waited about an hour after i put the black on, untill i put on the clear, thats when it bubbled. So the second time i waited overnight and cleared it and it worked fine. The longer you wait the better your chances are. A satin finish is like a "flat" finish compared to glossy. Also i noticed the thicker i sprayed the clear in one area the more it bubbled, so thin multiple, even coats would be best, with about a half hour drying time between clear coats.
     
  10. ManBot13

    ManBot13 Well-Known Member

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    jmelton, thanks for that advice, I'll be testing that out as well as a few other things on the test pieces (yes lesson learned the hard way on the test pieces). Did you wet sand the flat black coat before putting on the clear?

    This might be a dumb question, but is it ok to use wood as a test piece? I really don't have that much scrap metal lying around. Just sand it smooth and primer it?
     
  11. jmelton

    jmelton Member

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    Actually i did wet sand with i think 1000 or 2000 grit, paper. i also wet sanded the clear when i was finished. As far as using wood-obviosly it will adhere differently than metal, but you could still use it to test for compatability between the paint and clear. As long as you first use primer so that your paint isn't absorbed by the wood as much.
     
  12. lowlifexj

    lowlifexj Member

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    jmelton, if you want your new paint to stick well and not chip off you need to sand blast your chrome parts with 70 grit aluminum oxide media. Now don't try to blast the chrome all off you only need to etch the chrome plating. As far as the clear coat goes I wouldn't worry about it on flat paint unless your doing your tins and tank just put the flat on thick with many thin coats. If you want a really flat paint call your local NAPA. They custom mixed up my flat black and put it in rattle cans for me. The cost was $7.00 a can plus the cost of the paint and they gave me the extra in a pint can for touch ups. The total cost for 4 rattle cans and the paint was $68.00. Three cans was enought to do my hole frame nice and thick.
     
  13. ManBot13

    ManBot13 Well-Known Member

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    lowlifexj, it's actually me who's looking for advice, jmelton was just giving me some. I actually sanded with 80 grit then 100 grit sand paper in opposite directions, used some Kleanstrip Rust Converter, sanded it, and then primed over that with rustoleum.

    I actually got around to doing some test pieces with different brands/clears (day one prime, day two black, day three clear), and discovered that it was probably my lack of patients that cause the paint problems, like jmelton said, 30 mins between clear coats seemed to work very well. I think the valspar flat clear just bubbles as it cures, and as long as the temp isn't too high, the bubbles go away and the clear flows well. The Valspar flat clear will also flatten the Rustoleum gloss clear, which I found out after trying a gloss clear and definitely not liking it. Apparently light coats and finding something else to do in between is all I needed.

    Hopefully soon I can get to actually painting the real parts.

    Thanks for everyone's help!
     
  14. ZaGhost

    ZaGhost Member

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    You can get som nifty reactions with different paints...
    I did a uitar body a few years back, when I clearcoated it I watch sections of the paint crawl... a strange crackle effect, but only in sections, had it been the whole thing I would've left it, was a cool look....
     
  15. ratchetmxr6

    ratchetmxr6 Member

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    Rustoleum??? Really That stuffs nasty thick and the over spray hangs in the air forever lol.But If your going to use the rusty rattle can I have a really simple tip for you and it works with all paints in a rattle can.Get yourself a plastic bucket (or sink when wifes not home)Fill it with the hottest water on TAP,(Dont boil it!!! It explosive!) Let it soak up the heat for 10 or 15 minutes rattle it and go nice and easy thin coats The paint will lay much nicer as it will atomize like qaulity paint. 3 coats of rusty should be good.When going to wet sand youll find there will be less orange peel in it as the paint lays nice and even.After the paint is solid, Wet sand and let air dry for at least an hour to be certain all the moisture is gone then clear 1 coat at a time and let dry complete if not and you shoot that second layer of clear on tacky paint it softens the base coat and will get all wrinkley.If your patient with it and everything is relative temp wise as far air and parts arent freezing cold or damp and the moon is in the correct position It should like a million bucks.Good Luck!
     

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