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BK's Winter RestoMod Project - 82 XJ650 Seca

Discussion in 'XJ Modifications' started by Busted Knuckles, Sep 26, 2015.

  1. rocs82650

    rocs82650 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Nice videos. Honestly, I've never seen busted sleeves on one of these bikes. For this reason I'm going to shut up, watch and learn. While this...

    IMG_20150124_214726.jpg

    would be my next move I don't want to recommend unnecessary procedures. I'd also weigh the cost of a machine shop dropping a new sleeve in the existing block against buying a good used one. Looks like k-moe is for the latter. The other gurus (which I'm not) and members will hopefully chime in soon.

    Gary H.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2015
  2. Busted Knuckles

    Busted Knuckles Member

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    I ordered a used set of jugs this morning. $66 to my door.

    Right now I'm weighing financial gain vs credibility for the bike. I crack it open, and I see bad bearings, then what? Start pumping more money? Right now the plan is get the jugs replaced, throw it together, get it running, and go from there. The initial plan when I bought this bike wasn't to keep it. Run it for a year, maybe, then sell it. The plan is still the same, but instead of riding it I'm just going to sell it for (hopefully) close to what I have in it, and treat this as a learning experience.
     
  3. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Burbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Most likely there was a nick or some other flaw along the very edge of the sleeve. Something that would have easily been missed during pre-assembly inspection. The other possibility (and I think the more likely one) is that the barrels were mishandled (e.g. dropped) by a PO who had the top end apart. In either case a small crack formed, and grew.

    That's one scenario. No consider that something let loose in the bottom end and slammed into the sleeve. You'll find that out when you split the cases.


    If you see bad bearings then you can make a decision.

    Find used bearings that are still in useable condition (this will make a runner that should be reliable for tens-of-thousands of miles), and get your money out of it by riding the thing.

    Part it out and get your money back that way (though it may take a year to sell everything).
     
  4. rocs82650

    rocs82650 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Last edited: Nov 28, 2015
  5. Busted Knuckles

    Busted Knuckles Member

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    I don't know. I need to sit on it for a few days. I've been in this situation before. Projects keep draining me dry as I rationalize to get them running again. I lost about $10,000 on the 4x4 not too long ago.If I had just kept it the way it was, I'd still have it. This is exactly what happened too. I went to fix one problem, found three more, fix two of those, and found another issue doing those. It just kept spiraling. Past experience is telling me to get it back running, and part with it.

    We'll see.
     
  6. Polock

    Polock Well-Known Member

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    on the bright side, you're about to become a XJ expert! the first thing to do is have a mid-project clean up, that nice neat laid out in order method just went out the window. that steel plate in the oilpan hides a bunch of crap, take it off. Your oil is that color because it has water in it, no big deal. other than the jugs and grit in the oil, the only other thing is the broken studs for the head bolts.
    i put one together from a box and found a 5 gallon bucket with a gallon of kerosene worked good to rinse off parts. Don't dwell on anything, just do it.
    these things are just a few steps up from a lawnmower, you got this.
     
  7. Busted Knuckles

    Busted Knuckles Member

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    Yea, I'm due for a mid-build cleanup. I tore the motor out in about 45m. I went into bombshell mode. I'll need to regroup and get my bearings again.

    The head bolts aren't snapped. Just three weren't threading in easy. The sheathing stuff that was on them fell down into the threaded hole. I removed it all so they're all good now.

    Coming from the 4x4 world, these things really aren't all that complicated. The broken sleeve just did a fantastic job at f***ing this up. I'm confident it will run again. I mean, its not like I did anything more to damage the bike. I doubt it will run any worse.
     
  8. rocs82650

    rocs82650 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    You're right there. Once you clean the case and do this
    20150420_220823.jpg
    while you're in there you should end up with this
    when it's all buttoned up and back together.
    Gary H.
     
  9. Busted Knuckles

    Busted Knuckles Member

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    I did think about doing this, but what happens if I pull it apart like that and notice damage.

    All in all, if there is any damage, I'm sure its been done. I mean, what happens if I pull the rods and they're all scored up? Replace the rods? What if the crank needs to be resurfaced? Machine shop? I get hit with the dilemma of putting thousands of dollars into a $1000 bike.

    Its hard for me to commit to it, because this exact thing happened to the 4x4. Transfer case was making noise. Replaced the bearings ($250). Still made noise, pulled it apart and cracked the case. Bought a new case ($200 for a spare case). Swapped in lower gears (a deal at $400). Stripped a bolt and had to have some aluminum welded ($150). Lower gears caused too much torque and cracked the case (another $200). Had to buy a special cradle ($400). Extra torque gave me issues with the wheel studs. Sheered them off. Had to buy new axle chromoly shafts ($900). And it just went on and on. In the end all those parts in parentheses ended up selling for $300. And that just one portion of the rig. Don't get me into motors and transmission work. If I had just stuck with noisy bearings from the start I would have never gotten myself into that hole. I still have a few parts left over in the basement from this build that remind of all the money I lost. In the end, this is a $1000 bike. I don't want to end up investing all this money into, a $1000 bike. The time I'm fine with.

    All in all, say I split the case and pull all the pistons. If they're scored, I'm not getting new ones. If they're good, then they're good. Same with the rod bearings. If they're damaged, I'm not getting new ones. If they're good, they're good. I say get the jugs, slap it in, shim the valves, install the head, replace the intake manifold, throw on some cheap blinkers, and throw it on CL for cheap money in the spring. While its up on CL, run it 'till it blows.
     
  10. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Burbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Make sure to let the new owner about the unknown condition of the innards if you are just going to slap new jugs on without checking.

    If you tear it down and find parts that need replaced then you are already one step closer to parting the enigne out. The price you get from the good innards will pay for a used engine.

    Compromises. It's always about compromises.
     
  11. Busted Knuckles

    Busted Knuckles Member

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    Of course. They'll be made aware of the issues.

    So if I were to tear the motor down, notice wiped bearings, just part the motor out then? Would it fetch much?
     
  12. Busted Knuckles

    Busted Knuckles Member

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    mmk. one decision has been made. I'm done with this bike. I got jammed hard by someone on CL and I'm left with picking up the pieces.

    The Maxim jugs will be here possibly this week. I have two options:

    Throw it back together, put it up on CL for short money as a running bike, and try to recoup some of my money.

    OR

    Part it out. Heads are 100% rebuilt. Carbs are synched and cleaned. No idea what something like that would fetch. Then I have to deal with shipping stuff, the emails, texts, calls, etc.

    I honestly just want to throw it together and send it. Its a cheap-ass bike. Its not worth my time or money to get any further into it.
     
  13. rocs82650

    rocs82650 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Understood.

    Gary H.
     
  14. Busted Knuckles

    Busted Knuckles Member

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    Yep. It sucks. I was really looking forward to riding it. If the sleeve was OK, the motor would be all back together today minus the valve shims. For the time and money I need to throw at this, I can get a different bike in way better condition.

    Been dicking around with selling parts online. Amazon doesn't do used parts. eBay has all sorts of small print. I suppose I could post one long ass thread in the for sale section here with the parts. The simpler way would be to slap it together and send it though.
     
  15. rocs82650

    rocs82650 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Sounds like you're very upset right now which is understandable. I don't think any of us could have foreseen the problems you've encountered with this one (it's very rare). I'm glad you decided to pull the jugs instead of just the head. If you had done just the head and put it back together you probably would be thinking we are all full of sh!t. A lot of members haven't done what you've done in such short time. For those of us that have it is clear you have what it takes to make it a solid bike.

    Gary H.
     
  16. Busted Knuckles

    Busted Knuckles Member

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    Yea, I'm really bullshit. This is not what I signed up for.

    Oh, I certainly have what it takes. Its not complicated. I could get a cylinder hone and piston ring compressor for ~$100. Piston rings are $400 from here. No idea about rod end bearings. So, yes, I could drop another grand into the bike and make it a solid bike. Absolutely. Or, I can try to recoup what I have, and spend more money on a better running machine. Something closer to the 1000cc range would be neat too. In the end I really have two outcomes. I could throw something close $3000 and two months of work I'll have into this bike that will have a few "ifs". Or, I can spend $3000 on a bike that is better equipped, is more common, and I feel more comfortable with in the end.
     
  17. Polock

    Polock Well-Known Member

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    poke around Craigslist and look at the prices for "lost intrest, project" and " it ran, clean title" type bikes. Maybe you can save a lot of work just putting the parts in a box.
    I'd rather buy a box of parts than a "who knows what" that's put together (actually i did).
    there is a lot to be said for bikes made in this century
     
  18. Busted Knuckles

    Busted Knuckles Member

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    I'm starting to lose sleep over this stupid thing now. I'd love to just load it up in the back of the truck, drive to the guy I bought from's house, and confront him. I see he sells bikes fairly often on CL and his Facebook page.

    Just took the wind right out of my sails. I'm hoping the Maxim jugs I got work ok. Otherwise I have no other choice to part it out. Which sucks because I was hoping to have a bigger bike for 2016 that can do the freeway.
     
  19. rocs82650

    rocs82650 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    It'll probably make you feel better but it won't solve the problems.
    Finish it and you will.

    Gary H.
     
  20. Busted Knuckles

    Busted Knuckles Member

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    Honestly man, its not worth it. The amount of money it will take to unfuck everything I can just get another bike. Even if I do unfuck everything, I'm sure there is already irreversible damage that has been done. Too much money for too many ifs. I have to cut my losses and walk away. I've been in this situation before. I'm not one for repeating history.
     

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