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Driveshaft removal question

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by Gork, May 2, 2017.

  1. Gork

    Gork Member

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    Hello all,

    I've removed the final drive and need to replace the oil seal on the end of the drive shaft.

    I'd like to remove the drive shaft without unbolting the u-joint (4x#39) at the rear of the engine as I don't know if a way yet to torque the bolts properly when installed.

    As the driveshaft does not simply pull out of the u-joint I'm pretty sure the clip (#36 in the attached?) is still present.

    I attached a rope and a slide hammer to the end of the drive shaft and gave it a couple of whacks, nothing happened (other than some noise).

    I know some have suggested moving the black boot aside and removing a clip at the engine side - I simply can't see what they are referring to and the manual has no pictures (recommendation appears in the post here: http://xjbikes.com/forums/threads/drive-shaft-removal-and-servicing.47091/ ).

    I guess the questions are:
    - Can the drive shaft be removed without unbolting the u-joint and removing the swing arm
    - Can you cause any damage trying to remove the drive shaft without removing the swing arm and unbolting the u-joint
    - Does anyone have any advice on how to remove the driveshaft "in place" or removing the u-joint (it wants to rotate making wrenching the bolts free difficult)
    - Does anyone have any advice on how to best re-torque the u-joint bolts if removed.




    XJ650 Drive Seals.JPG
     
  2. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Burbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    The drive shaft just slides out of the u-joint after you remove the final drive from the swingarm.

    Depending on what revision of the driveshaft you have, there may (or may not) be a spring-wire clip that helps to retain the driveshaft. If you have the clip you'll have to give a pretty good tug on the driveshaft for it to release from the u-joint.

    Depending on which oil seal you need to replace, you will have to make a tool to hold the gears in place so you can adjust the gear lash poperly during reassembly.
    Best bet is to just buy a used final drive. An oil seal failure is uncommon, so a used unit will be a good bet.
     
  3. Gork

    Gork Member

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    Yeah, my drive shaft apparently needs more than a pretty good tug.
    I'm just wondering how long before I break something "tugging" on it.

    Any recommendations on how best to remove it?
    Gear puller?
    More force on the slide hammer?

    I'm looking to replace the oil seal going into the final drive - it's at the end of the input end of the drive shaft as it goes into the final drive/splines.
    There is oil running from the final drive into the drive shaft tunnel, while I have other final drives unless I replace this oil seal any of them will leak.
     
  4. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Burbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    The clip that holds it into the u-joint splines is not accessible. There is a very small possability of corrosion at the splines. Peel the dust boot away from the u-joint and apply pentrating oil. Let it work for a day, and then proceed to pulling the driveshaft out.

    My big question is why you want to pull the drive shaft when the leaky oil seal is in the final drive. The drive jus unbolts from th swingarm and lifts away from the drive shaft.

    Is the engine output shaft seal leaking too?
     
  5. Gork

    Gork Member

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    Made a "removal tool" using a slide hammer and household wire with a single loop over the middle of the end gear... something that would not damage the drive gears... took a few good whacks but popped right out.

    Included a picture of the clip, oil seal needing replacement & the "tool".

    Thanks for the help... now I need to contact Len for that oil seal...

    IMG_5573.JPG IMG_5574.JPG IMG_5575.JPG
     
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  6. Gork

    Gork Member

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    As there is an oil seal between the end of the drive shaft and the final drive it was my thinking there would be oil between the end of the drive shaft, spring, final drive. When I tip my final drive over (where the shaft tunnel bolts to the final drive) oil comes out. As this is my first XJ my thinking is that could be normal - it could also point to a leaky final drive (but why have the oil seal at the end of the drive shaft...).

    As there is no oil coming from the rear of the engine where the drive shaft exits the case to the u-joint and there is only oil seeping from the location where the final drive bolts to the swing arm my thinking was that it's likely the leak is at the oil seal at the end of the driveshaft as it's pretty old and inflexible.

    I could be off the mark, as the oil seal kind of looks fused to the drive shaft I'm wondering if it's replacable - have asked Len but any feedback welcomed.

    Fun bikes to work on, having oil leaking down around the rear wheel is something I need to fix, have 2 final drives on the way now just as possible backup...
     
  7. Polock

    Polock Well-Known Member

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    what electrical appliance sacrificed it's cord for the XJ ? :)
     
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  8. Gork

    Gork Member

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    Dohm sound gernerator :)
     
  9. jayrodoh

    jayrodoh YimYam Premium Member

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    It's pressed on, I did mine as I had the same leak. I don't have a press but was able to get it on although I can't recall exactly how. Just use some common sense so you don't bend or twist it up.

    My company is based out of VF, used to commute out there every other month but haven't been that way in awhile now.
     
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  10. jayrodoh

    jayrodoh YimYam Premium Member

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    Here is the seal you need, fits all XJ650, XJ700, XJ750, and all XJ900RK, RL, N/FN, and F.

    HCP5108 OEM driveshaft REAR OIL SEAL
     
  11. Gork

    Gork Member

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    Awesome - thanks!

    I'll see if I can't document the install process, I'll likely simply cut the old one off...
     
  12. jayrodoh

    jayrodoh YimYam Premium Member

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    That's what I did.
     
  13. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Burbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    @Gork the seal at the end of the driveshaft is there to keep the grease from being thrown away from the splines, and to prevent condensation from getting to the splines in cold weather.
     
  14. chacal

    chacal Moderator Moderator Supporting Vendor Premium Member

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    The HCP5108 oil seal serves 2 purposes:

    1) as kmoe stated above, and....

    2) to prevent any leak from the rear engine case seal from escaping (except thru the u-joint boot).


    There is no gasket betweenm the driveshaft and the final drive housing, and any oil leaking from the final drive input would seep out of that non-perfect/non-gasketed joint.
     
  15. Gork

    Gork Member

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    So if the oil is not coming from the engine side of the drive shaft and there is seepage near the final drive, running out (little bit but noticeable) at the connection between the final drive and the swing arm drive shaft tunnel (where there is no gasket), there is oil in the final drive between the end of the drive shaft where it goes into the final drive and the part (Yamaha 93108-23007-00/93108-43013-00) is referred to as an "Oil Seal" could it not also prevent oil from the final drive from migrating up and out of the drive shaft?

    The only place I can see where oil can be leaking out is from the rear end - from the seal on the drive shaft & oil from the rear - the seal at the back of the engine is totally dry (pulled the boot and looked, zero oil on the shaft, u-joint, etc.) so if its not the oil seal at the back part of the drive shaft I'm struggling to locate where the leak could be coming from.... as Chacal mentions there is no gasket between the final drive housing and the driveshaft (tunnel in the swing arm assembly) so oil will leak from there if present.

    I so hate mystery leaks but at least I didn't have to separate the u-joint to remove the drive shaft...
     
  16. Polock

    Polock Well-Known Member

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    since your into it this far you should take the swingarm off and service the bearings. just smell the oil that leaked, 80/90wt stinks.
    don't be afraid to take the u-joint off, just use 6 point tools, while i had mine out i used a needle point on the grease gun to get a little grease in the u-joint
    bearings, not much but even a little helps
     
  17. Gork

    Gork Member

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    More bearings :)

    I was trying to avoid removing the swing arm, wonder if it will just come off now with the drive shaft out...
    For bearing servicing normally I'd just replace them, repack them, replace the seals - is that what you were thinking?

    For the u-joint I have 2 concerns but with the drive shaft out it may be easier than I think:
    1. Freezing the joint to actually turn a wrench to remove the bolts (if the swing arm just comes off now that may be easier) without damaging the drive shaft
    2. Re-torquing the bolts to their proper torque as a socket won't fit in there...

    So not so much of fear of taking it off but concern that it would come flying off later :)

    And yeah, that oil was rancid - still looked good but awful smell for sure, of course I spilled it all over - the shock stud came all the way out, moved the pumpkin and the fluid just came rushing out of the shock stud hole.
     
  18. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Burbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    @Gork

    Don't mess with the u-joint unless it's not flopping over smoothly.

    You have a leak at the final drive seal. Based on your descripiton of how the Hera oil came gushing out, the breather is plugged. Pressure built up inside of the final drive housing, and blew the seal.
     
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  19. Gork

    Gork Member

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    In the drawing above which seal would that be, also does it require breaking apart the pumpkin (which requires special tools)...

    I have 2 more final drives showing up tomorrow.

    So when you tip the final drive over (and the shock stud is installed...) no oil should run out from where the final drive mounts to the drive shaft tunnel on the swing arm?

    Should the area between the final drive where the spring and splines are and the drive shaft and oil seal be "dry" - aside from grease - of oil (drive oil)?
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2017
  20. jayrodoh

    jayrodoh YimYam Premium Member

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    This diagram is a little better for seal location. The one circled in red is the seal I referenced above. It seals in the grease and keeps out moisture. The seal is green is to keep the oil in the final drive and out of the driveshaft tube (swingarm). Those rarely fail but are very intensive to change, requires specialty tools and some you have to make. You could try hanging it up with oil in with the input side facing down for a few days and see if it drips, but the best test would be to clean everything up with brake cleaner and run it. Take it apart in a month or so and see if there is any evidence of a leak. The front facing o ring is for the pinion bearing retainer.

    Seal.png
     
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