1. Hello Guest. You have limited privileges and you can't "SEARCH" the forums. Please "Log In" or "Sign Up" for additional functionality. Click HERE to proceed.

Fj600/xj600 84 no spark

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by mark1911, Jun 25, 2020.

  1. mark1911

    mark1911 Member

    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    liverpool uk
    Man am stumped got everything working on the bike lights horn etc, all switches work but no spark ran a test light over the coils and no power to them 1and4 2and3 all dead. What is it am missing?Got a second hand relay as indicators weren't working now they are. Could it still be the relay? clutch switch looks tired and a bit stiff but working, side stand switch the blue and yellow wire was frayed a little so cut it back and now seems fine. It can only be the tci or coils couldn't it what else can I test or look for to get a spark.
     
  2. bensalf

    bensalf Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,267
    Likes Received:
    254
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    yorkshire ,england
    first start at the fuse box, are you getting any power to the red/white wire at the fusebox, then the engine stop switch. are you getting 12v at the starter relay red/white wire, what happens if you jump the starter relay ( make sure its out of gear),
    try those first, then get back.
    stu
     
  3. bensalf

    bensalf Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,267
    Likes Received:
    254
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    yorkshire ,england
    there are two relays under the tank, one is the indicator, which wont stop the bike running , the other is the safety relay , which stops the bike running if bike is in gear with sidestand down, if clutch isn't pulled in,
    stu
     
  4. mark1911

    mark1911 Member

    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    liverpool uk
    Hi stu
    Turn ignition and power across all fuses power at the starter relay and red and white wire. Yes tried bridging relay with a flat screw driver nothing, with clutch handle in and and switch gear to run press starter button and it just dims or pulses the headlight bulb no spark.
     
  5. mark1911

    mark1911 Member

    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    liverpool uk
    Yeah I replaced the larger of the two relays the smaller one I haven't. Tested side stand switch and it appears to work but when you press starter button with the side stand down shouldn't your oil light flicker letting you know its down.
     
  6. bensalf

    bensalf Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,267
    Likes Received:
    254
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    yorkshire ,england
    oil light should come on when the starter button is pressed, as a test for the bulb.
    but you need to go back, if the starter doesn't spin when you short the starter relay, then you need to start with cleaning all the large cables , coming from the battery to the starter relay, then to the starter motor , then the large earth cables from the back of the engine to the frame under the battery box , up to the battery.
    if after doing that the starter still does not spin then if the battery is ok , its the starter itself.
    stu
     
    Franz likes this.
  7. mark1911

    mark1911 Member

    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    liverpool uk
    All cables were greased the one coming out the back of the crankcase bolt number 32 I believe that runs up to the negative terminal and underneath the battery tray. Same with the earths to the ignition coils and starter and was replaced recently but still doesn't spin but still doesn't explain why there's no power to the coils which would give a spark.
     
  8. SQLGuy

    SQLGuy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,140
    Likes Received:
    175
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Colorado Springs, Colorado USA
  9. mark1911

    mark1911 Member

    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    liverpool uk
  10. bensalf

    bensalf Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,267
    Likes Received:
    254
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    yorkshire ,england
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ll cables were greased the one coming out the back of the crankcase bolt number 32 I believe that runs up to the negative terminal and underneath the battery tray. Same with the earths to the ignition coils and starter and was replaced recently but still doesn't spin but still doesn't explain why there's no power to the coils which would give a spark.

    mark1911, Y
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    yes, I get that.
    but first you need to make it spin, regardless of the coil supply , you'll never get a spark if it doesn't spin, jump a supply to the starter motor large terminal. if it still don't spin, then its the starter, when it spins we can take it further,
    stu
     
  11. SQLGuy

    SQLGuy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,140
    Likes Received:
    175
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Colorado Springs, Colorado USA
    You greased grounds and electrical cables? With dielectric grease (I hope), or regular petroleum grease (which is an insulator)?
     
  12. mark1911

    mark1911 Member

    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    liverpool uk
    Hi used lithium grease hoped this was a good insulator.
     
  13. mark1911

    mark1911 Member

    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    liverpool uk
    Hi stu OK this what I've got so far, removed starter and with a known good battery ran jumper leads to it, it span at first really slowly then stopped and now won't move at all. Strange though when I rebuilt the engine a couple of months ago it was spinning really quickly when I tested it. So I guess it could be a couple of things carbon brushes, commutator etc were sells a decent repair kit, don't want to buy another really. Took it apart and it's black full of carbon and give it a clean so maybe that will help.
     
  14. mark1911

    mark1911 Member

    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    liverpool uk
    Also the bolt that goes through the hole in the starter has like a kind of collar it goes through so u can tighten a nut down to it is missing. On the pic below, suppose it helps with conductivity as the terminal is quite loose. Screenshot_20200628-132744.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  15. mark1911

    mark1911 Member

    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    liverpool uk
    Just noticed as well some crafty bastard has put in a a brush holder of a seca by the looks of it. All Fj600 and xj600 have 4 brush holders as well not 2 as in the pic. Never noticed till I looked at Haynes. Had it in my shed the motor for years and never noticed. IMG_20200628_162157.jpg
     
  16. bensalf

    bensalf Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,267
    Likes Received:
    254
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    yorkshire ,england
    i've got about 5 of those starter motors, they're all 2 brush, but mine are all later 1989 on motors 51j and 3km ,so maybe the earlier models had 4 brushes, but anyhow the motor should still work ok , maybe the starter motor has been swapped. I managed to find spare brushes on ebay ok, but you have to be carefull soldering, as the solder "wickes" up the flexible braiding, making it stiff and useless, ruined a new set of brushes doing that
    stu
     
  17. mark1911

    mark1911 Member

    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    liverpool uk
    Yeah seen a kit on ebay for 23 quid so might get that it's the 4 brush type as well. Didn't know the later models were only 2 brushes though. Not sure whether to continue with it at the moment measured the commutator then and it's well out of spec. Haynes minimum diameter for it is 27mm, its well out got something like 22.8 on the digital millimetre tool. would probably involve getting another 2nd hand starter will all the same problems I had with this one.
     
  18. bensalf

    bensalf Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,267
    Likes Received:
    254
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    yorkshire ,england
    there wouldn't be that much wear (4mm) on the commutator, my guess would be the measurement given in the Haynes is for the 4 brush model, the 2 brush may be different, and I don't have one in bits at the mo, I would renovate the one you have using 2brush bits.
    stu
     
  19. SQLGuy

    SQLGuy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,140
    Likes Received:
    175
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Colorado Springs, Colorado USA
    You don't want an insulating grease on electrical connections. Dielectric grease is to keep water out of the connection. It's generally used for plugs and light bulb sockets. Grounds and high current cable connections are normally not greased. I would think that lithium grease on those connections is part of your problem.
     

Share This Page