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Solenoid clicks, no starter action.

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by jasperwasthere, Nov 12, 2021.

  1. jasperwasthere

    jasperwasthere New Member

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    I picked up a partially disassembled '93 Seca II for just $100 bucks a while ago and am struggling to get it to start. Now that I've replaced all the missing parts I can't get it to turn over.

    The bike is in Neutral, although it doesn't think it is. Grounding the Neutral Safety Switch does make the N light on the dash turn on but this doesn't make a difference on starting. Solenoid clicks, oil light goes off, starter doesn't turn.

    Kickstand doesn't have any effect either. Bike behaves the same up or down so I bypassed this switch and that still does not have any effect.

    So what's next? I see on the wiring diagram there's also a Clutch Switch in the mix I have not messed with. Also if its worth mentioning the horn does not work and it appears to be connected with several other things.
     
  2. jayrodoh

    jayrodoh YimYam Premium Member

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    When you say “solenoid clicks” do you mean the starter solenoid? If so, that would mean all the safety circuits etc are working okay. Try jumping the two larger lugs on the solenoid (be darn sure it’s in neutral when you do). If the starter spins the solenoid is probably bad. If not then troubleshoot the battery and starter itself.

    If the solenoid is not clicking but one of the many relays then you need to troubleshoot the starter/safety circuit. The FSM has a great section on this.
     
  3. jasperwasthere

    jasperwasthere New Member

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    So some troubling news. The starter does work, and it gets power when the start button is pressed but it does not turn the engine. I connected it but pulled the bendix away from the engine and it does spin from the bike's power. The Neutral switch/light is now working without me grounding it (the bike is showing its in N without my influence). I suppose I can try to bump start it?
     
  4. Jetfixer

    Jetfixer Well-Known Member

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    The starter does not have " bendix" replace the start solenoid they are cheap and can fail. The other thing your starter brushes can be worn , an o overhaul kit is cheap .
     
  5. cds1984

    cds1984 Active Member

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    Don't forget the starter solenoid is just a big fat relay that allows maximum amps to hit the starter motor.
    If you put a jumper lead on the positive of the battery and pop it on the starter motor terminal it will tell you straight away if the starter motor needs a refurb, or the solenoid is not contacting properly.

    PS: (jumper lead... not a piece of speaker wire!)
    PS2: (don't forget the negative earthing from the battery to the motor has to be just as substantial and well connected as the starter cables)
     
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  6. Timbox

    Timbox Well-Known Member

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    Does the engine turn over? Have you pulled the plugs to see if it will turn over then? Just wanted to make sure the engine is free so that the starter will work when it is engaged.

    You are using a really good new battery for this? Or a larger batter and jumper cables?

    Don't know the history of the bike, so don't know if it needs to have some penetrating oil put in the plug holes or not. If the carbs are clean or if the bike was sitting outside or inside for the last few yrs.
     
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  7. jasperwasthere

    jasperwasthere New Member

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    I’m just using a normal bike battery that came with, threw it on the trickle charger too. I’m going to try a friends battery off his bike unless it’s okay to test with a car battery?

    Engine seems to turn fine but I suppose suppose throwing something in can’t hurt. It still has current tags until next year so it hasn’t been sitting terribly long and they bothered to cover up the carb holes to keep anything out.
     
  8. Timbox

    Timbox Well-Known Member

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    Good news about the tags and hope it was ridden this yr or last yr. Yes you can use a car battery just be careful for both the car and the bike can be damaged. Have a really healthy batter is key with these bikes. They will not make spark on the plugs if the voltage drops to far when you try to stater them.
     
  9. jasperwasthere

    jasperwasthere New Member

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    Alright, bit of an update.

    A known working battery: Mine was in fact on the weak side however this didn't have much of any effect besides the headlight is brighter now.

    Starter post/brushes assembly is now replaced. Defiantly needed it, unfortunately didn't solve the problem.

    The starter post is only reading around 3-4 volts when the start button is pressed while the battery reads 12. However, a cable straight from the battery to the stater post, or jumping the solenoid just creates a lot of sparks, simmilar to if you accidently crossed battery terminals. Leading me to suspect some sort of ground issue or short somewhere. Also, I thought I could hear a small, short, whirling sound coming from the starter when a test light was only branched from the post to the negative battery terminal but I might be wrong.
     
  10. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Are you sure you have the hardware stack up correct on the starter post on the starter itself. That big terminal must be insulated from the starter chassis and will have plastic components or washers to make sure it is insulated.
     
  11. Noahsxj

    Noahsxj Active Member

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    I had this exact issue after rebuilding my starter.
    I crushed the stupid wimpy little red washer they include with the kit, and was causing it to short to the starter housing.
    I replaced it with a nice big thick hard rubber washer and haven’t had issues since.

    my new to me virago had a clicking solenoid and replacing it for $9 solved the problem
     
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  12. jasperwasthere

    jasperwasthere New Member

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    I used them in the order they came, they were on the post already out of box. It’s two small reds, a large red, and a metal one. And the two nuts. And the tiny black insulator at the base of the post.
    What order should they be in?
     
  13. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    So just looking at Ebay stock photos for the starter rebuild kit and the parts breakdown from Yamaha it looks like there should an O-ring that goes on after the insulator to help center the stud in the starter housing, followed by the insulating washers.

    And what Noahsxj said, perhaps a bit tighter than was intended and the insulating washer crushed? Not sure about the 93 but earlier versions the insulator is also easily broken.

    Testing the starter by applying 12V directly to the stud could be beneficial after you verify the stud is properly insulated from the housing. If the starter doesn't turn then it has internal problems. If it does then time to look at the large supply wire and connections.

    Edit - seems you tested the starter earlier and it worked on its own - but you also said the engine turns over fine???
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
  14. jasperwasthere

    jasperwasthere New Member

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    Yes, the engine can be turned over by hand with a ratchet on the nut. Currently put some lubricants down the cylinders and letting it eat.
     
  15. jasperwasthere

    jasperwasthere New Member

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    The hardware on the starter post is in the correct order, the post isn't contacting the case where the little rubber o-ring is.
     
  16. jasperwasthere

    jasperwasthere New Member

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    Well I think it has to be narrowed down to having to be starter clutch/ idler gear related. As I said the engine does turn over, but the starter is unable to turn at all even when directly powered ignoring the solenoid completely.

    I’m unable to spin the gear in the hole for the starter by hand, and it does not turn when the engine does. Sooo....starter clutch replacement? Really open to any ideas to try before I rip the whole engine apart
     
  17. cds1984

    cds1984 Active Member

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    Does the starter work just on the bench? Anchor it down before you apply voltage FYI.
     
  18. jasperwasthere

    jasperwasthere New Member

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  19. cds1984

    cds1984 Active Member

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    Hmmm, The starter clutch directly engages the starter via the primary drive chain to the crank...
    It also, when running, drives the generator.
    I wonder if the primary drive chain is bound up, maybe from rusting out, maybe snapping... That might explain why the crank can turn by hand and the starter can't turn the crank.

    A bororscope might be handy at this point.

    Actually you know what... I just realised we are talking about a seca II, everything I just said is based on my knowledge of the seca I type engine... oops
     
  20. jasperwasthere

    jasperwasthere New Member

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    A bororscope might give some answers. I'm just stumped as to how the gear could be frozen in such a way the larger portion that interacts with the starter can be stuck while allowing the smaller part to spin free.
     

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