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starter clutch issues

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by soslow93, Aug 5, 2006.

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  1. soslow93

    soslow93 Member

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    i have a 82 maxim 650 i recently as in yesterday replaced thebattery , starter relay and had the starter checked . i think the starter clutch is bad...i took the clutch cover off and i dont think i can get to it to replace or repair.. let me know if any of you have any insight... thanks
     
  2. BlueMaxim

    BlueMaxim Active Member

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    Need to know just wha tis happening. Is the starter spinning but not turning the engine? This would indicate starter clutch problems. It may require replaceing the clutch but could also be gunk in the crankcase not allowing the clutch to engage. You can run half a can of seafoam in the crankcase and with the bike n the center stand start it and run through the gears. Let the engine warm up and then change the oil and filter. This will clean out the crankcase and may free up the starter clutch. If it doesn't then the clutc will need to be replaced. Usually means removing the engine and splitting the cases.
     
  3. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    Here's how a member of XJ-Planet replaced his starter clutch WITHOUT removing the engine and splitting the cases. This + SHORTCUT + is used at Yamaha Dealerships. The technician charges FLAT RATE. That means ... He does the job using the shortcut ... but, CHARGES for the work as if it was done -- The Hard Way. I have NOT done this procedure yet. I will employ this shortcut when it is time for me to do the starter clutch ... at which time, I will renew the drive clutches, too!

    The member who performed this shortcut had never done the procedure before ... as well. His text appears here as a courtesy to the members of this group from XJ-Planet.

    +++ Notes on replacing the starter clutch without engine removal and case splitting. +++

    By: Karl Hughes -- karl.hughes@rmit.edu.au
    Edited by: Rick Massey -- xj900owner@aol.com

    Yes, it is possible, (to overhaul the starter clutch without case spliting)* however if you drop the rollers, springs, or spring caps in the crankcase, you going to have to do it the "right" (split the cases)* way anyway...Be prepared....The keys are some patience and go slow...

    I'm doing this from memory so if I left something out or you have a
    question, please let me know....

    First I took off the starter assembly off and the alternator cover
    and positioned it aside.

    Next you must remove the stator (the big
    copper thing inside the cover that spins with/the engine) there's a
    bolt in the middle to remove, but the stator has to be pressed off
    the shaft, you'll have to have a special tool. (Actual Yamaha Special Tool)*

    I've seen them on ebay, but I modified an old harmonic balancer removal tool (the threads were the same)...If you look at the stator it has threads
    cast into its housing, thread the special puller bolt into that, and
    while turning the puller, the stator will slide off the shaft. (May need an application of heavy torque -- the assembly will "Give" and come off)*

    **(Tapping lightly on the puller bolt will often help loosening the pressed-on stator)** -- RickCoMatic

    Next, remove the three torx screws that hold the retainer
    plate to the case.

    Then, the oil spray tube can be removed.

    Now the tricky part.

    Pull the shaft out of the case (the starter clutch unit will fall down) ((come-out and down))*

    Using long screw drivers separate the two half's
    of the clutch mechanism.

    The half closest to you will have the chain wrapped around it, and half farthest from you (The Starter Clutch)* will contain the rollers, springs, and spring caps.

    Using the long screwdriver, hold the farther section up higher than closer, using another screwdriver you can manipulate, and rotate the clutch/roller
    mechanism around to remove the three rollers, springs, and caps....A
    telescoping magnet will help a lot.

    (EXERCISE EXTREME CAUTION WHEN REMOVING THE SMALL PARTS.)*

    Reassemble the opposite of removal, go slow, make sure both halves of the clutch mate together properly, use a dab of grease to hold the springs, and caps together....

    I will also add as a side note, as it may or may not be required to
    do so, but I did have the trans clutch removed while doing this.

    I also unbolted the idler gear that goes between the starter and the
    starter clutch (this is done from the trans clutch side).

    The idler gear will fall down an inch but can easily be manipulated with
    magnets and screwdrivers.

    +++++ End of text by Mr. Hughes +++++

    Following added by me for your special attention.

    Sacrifice a bed sheet. Cut the sheet into a LONG 2-inch "ribbons"
    Use lengths of the long ribbon to STUFF into the cavity to PREVENT anything from (DROPPING) entering the engine cavity. STUFF long length of the ribbon into voids -- Tightly! When you have successfully dealt with those small parts that might "GET AWAY" ... you can easily remove ALL the safety stuffing by withdrawing the ribbon from the cavity.

    If you drop anything into the cavity ... the SHORTCUT is OVER and you'll be needing to remove the engine and split cases to finish the job and retrieve those parts that fell into the engine cavity.

    *Portions added / edited by Rick Massey

    It's straight-forward wrenching until you replace the springs ans rollers ... then, you need your Open Heart Surgeon hat on!

    Best of luck,
     
  4. soslow93

    soslow93 Member

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    oh man this doesnt sound good... lots of work and its my first bike and ive only had it two weeks... all i can do is shake my head. thanks for the info,
    Nick
     
  5. hessenr00ts

    hessenr00ts Member

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    But, you'll have that knowledge to apply later and pass on to others.

    Look at it as a learning experience :D


    In my opinion, half of charm of these bikes is the ability for the owner to do most, if not all, needed service without advanced technical or computer knowhow.
     
  6. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    Lets go back to the beginning ...
    How many miles on the bike?
    What happened and most importantly; what did you do?

    Is (was) this a case of you pushing the START Button ... hearing the starter actually turning? Or, did nothing happen? Paint the whole picture for us. It's harf enough nailing-down problems ... but, when there is a vague area in the synopsis ... it's even more difficult. So, go back to the ... You bought the bike ... part and spell it all out for us. All thge details.
     
  7. MacMcMacmac

    MacMcMacmac Member

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    I'm just finishing up the starter clutch repair. It was a nightmare, but the starter had begun to slip and grind so bad it had to be done. Basically, if you think of a starter clutch lying on the ground and a bike being built up around it, you won't be far off. Having done this job, I can say the shortcut method may work, but would be fiendishly difficult to pull off. Giving my propensity for dropping things, I can say in all honesty that is was probably not worth the time for me to even attempt it. The crappiest part of the whole thing is that the parts that came out looked no worse than the parts that went in, so maybe the Yamaha mechanic that told me it might be the synthetic oil causing it to slip wasn't blowing smoke(0W40 Amsoil), and don't rag on me about the weight, since the label clearly stated it was good to replace 10W40. Of course, seeing the amount of carbon build up and the worn out rings convinced me that major motor work was worth the trouble. I just fear that I'll hear the grinding once again when I get it back in! That's a job and a half in itself.
     
  8. HooNz

    HooNz Member

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    MacMcMacmac i agree too , if its time ta do a starter clutch its time to look about further inside...
     
  9. Robert

    Robert Active Member

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    Yeesh, you all have me worried about my starter clutch now! I've not had problems with it yet. Which begs the question, is it a matter of time before I will or will proper preventitive maintenance render the issue moot?
     
  10. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    Keep the oil changed.
    Keep battery charged.
    Don't over-use the starter if the bike won't start-up right away ... find-out why it's not starting right up.
     
  11. soslow93

    soslow93 Member

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    purchased the bike two weeks ago from a guy that hadnt ridden in a while 9months or so but started and ran periodicly. i rode it three time with no hitchs and then ran it out of gas... put fresh fuel in it and rode it home a few hours later no issues yet. Let it sit over night next day started right up , i let it warm up and dressed for the ride got on the bike and proceeded to leave the driveway as soon as i twisted the throttle it started to bog this is wear all the fun startes... next day pull carbs cleaned with gumout carb cleaner disassemble adn reassemble with no issues. bike wont start and when it does stumbles adn boggs real bad then cuts off. after a few times of this it wont even turn over ,this is when i pull the plugs , they are wet fouled and covered with carbon and unused fuel. so i go to the parts store get battery plugs oil air filter and other misc. peices go home install all parts bike fires up! but revs straight to the moon. turn it off imediatly take carbs back off clean again and remove more , replaced starter relay now the bike fires constantly but not running, charge the battery that was "new" also applied silicone to the intake manifolds. with a fresh charged battery and the newly added silcone the bike purrs like kitten and starts right up. oh and it has 13k on it.i think that is all ive done?
    Nick ill post pics later. thanks for all your help guys\gals
     
  12. soslow93

    soslow93 Member

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    went out tonight started fine on the second try, warmed up idled beutifuly revved great, got on it and hit third gear maybe 40mph it started to sputter and bog, got it back home less than a mile and it died then i couldnt restart? what the hell is the problem it has fresh fuel and new plugs its almost like its out of timing or the ignition is weird it was doing alot of popping and back firing of sorts. anythoughts thanks
    Nick
     
  13. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    Check the coils ... mine are starting to clip at 58-hundred - 6-Grand. I'm yanking them old stock coils the second the FedEx truck pulls-up with my new ones. I might even slip the FedEx guy an Iced Coffee to-go ... if he manages to find my house early enough for me to road-check those babies before dinner.

    The High-Performance DYNA Green's are capable of Ludicrous Speed without that annoying coil break-down.
     
  14. HooNz

    HooNz Member

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    I reckon xjwizz if no play up no need to worry till it does.

    1-i would guess it would happen gradually [as 1 or more no catch per week then gradually increases].

    2-motor probable needs over 30-40k.

    3-and 2 depends on how much the starter has been used [ie-long periods on da button over a long time "years"].



    4-by then 3 =primary chain guide will be no good anyway..
     
  15. Robert

    Robert Active Member

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    Side note on my post. I had the starter chain guide crap out on me and lock up the tranny last year. Had to split the case to replace it. Examined the clutch, looked like new so I left it alone. Wonder if I should have rebuilt it at the time.
     
  16. soslow93

    soslow93 Member

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    now it turns over and once i get it running if i shake the bike slosh the tank it cuts off.? what the hell is going on with this thing?
     
  17. Robert

    Robert Active Member

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    Sounds like an intermittent wire contact or relay problem. Pull the tank, get an auxillary tank in place, fire it up and start tapping various components under the tank (although you may not wish to limit the search to just that area, the idea is to expose as much of the bike as possible yet still have it function).
     
  18. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    That's like going to Paris without visiting the Louve ... or, the Eiffel Tower.

    When you crack the cases ... anything suspect that requires case splitting should get done ... just to not have to dive back in there and do it all over again.
     
  19. soslow93

    soslow93 Member

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    stillno luck with darn thing... (anybody want a realy clean parts bike?)
     
  20. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    Call me on the telephone and we'll put our heads together on the thing.

    Rick Massey

    (978) 663-5080 H

    Anytime before the end of Dave Letterman!
     
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