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Transmission Issue

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by theonewhoisodd, May 12, 2015.

  1. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Burbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Usually there will be a tapping in the lower case that signifies the chain hitting the oil nozzle, so that would be a clue. But since there is no tensioner on the shaft driven bikes, the chain tends to rattle around a bit at low RPMs anyway.
     
  2. TECHLINETOM

    TECHLINETOM Member

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    The primary chain on my XJ1100 drives the clutch so it is pretty heavily loaded.
     
  3. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Burbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    And it is also an entirely different beast. Your engine is based on the SX1100.

    The OP never let me know what bike he has, and the rest of the conversation has been about the XJ650/750/700/900, which have primary chains that are really alternator/starter chains.

    The XJ555 and 600 also have true primary chains that drive the clutch.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2015
  4. Rod1

    Rod1 Member

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    Ok...mine have a (I don't know how loud since I never see one of this bikes before) loud noise at 1000/1500 rpm, sound like a chain that's why I asked. Above 1500rpm you only hear a humming...
     
  5. Rod1

    Rod1 Member

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    Re-reading my post, I have to tell you that my bikew (xj700 1985) is the 15th bike of 23 that got into the country (Argentina)...so you see one of this kind every once in a while. Its my 5th year living here and I only saw one in a meeting...I saw the engine, everything else was hand made....
     
  6. Dark-Farmer

    Dark-Farmer Member

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    Ok guys I'm back at it today. Here come a couple newbie questions.
    I didn't remove the alternator , I think that was a mistake. Should I remove it?

    The Torx bolts in the drive shaft, anyone know the Yamaha part number? (Probably a long shoot, but I will need new ones)

    And the new case sealant says to stay away from the shell bearing and the oil o ring. What's the shell bearing? Anyone have a diagram and where to put or not put sealant?
     
  7. rocs82650

    rocs82650 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Idk if you should remove the alternator or not. Chacal has the torx screws. Is the case split? Crankshaft half shells are located in the upper and lower case to provide a surface for the crankshaft journals to rotate around and are continuously oil fed for lubrication. The sealant will clog the oil feed which results in bad news. Keep the sealant a few mm way from the shells (It'll spread when the cases are assembled). There is a single oil feed with a o-ring above the shifter cover between the cases. Do not put sealant there at all. Clog the feed, same thing...bad news.

    Gary H.
     
  8. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Burbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    STOP! Get a factory service manual, and THEN proceed. You are treading in dangerous territory without one.

    Yes the alternator has to come off.

    Use LocTite 515 or 518 instead of Yamabond so you don't have to worry about clogging the oil passages. It is anerobic and will mix with the oil if it gets places where it should not be. You also get to take your time when putting the cases back together since it will not start curing until the case halves are fitted back together.
     
  9. rocs82650

    rocs82650 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Agreed ^. I thought you already had a manual.

    Gary H.
     
  10. Dark-Farmer

    Dark-Farmer Member

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    Ive been mostly using the Haynes manual. I have the service manual too though. The Haynes manual does describe to Remove the alternator, but since I'm not doing the whole engine and I didn't take it off while the engine was in the bike I wanted to know If it was a step I could skip. As for the sealant the Haynes just describes where not to put it. Was hoping someone maybe had a sketch/good picture of the proper application. I reviewed the link on the first page of this post, but his sealant Is grey so it doesn't contrast well in the picture
     
  11. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Burbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    The alternator has to come off in order to get the alternator shaft out of the way so you can replace the chain guide. You should also replace the springs and rollers on the starter clutch while you are in there. The FSM has a very clear diagram of where to put the case sealant.
     
  12. Dark-Farmer

    Dark-Farmer Member

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    Alrighty. this project is already taking a lot longer than I thought so I may as well do that too while I'm at it.
    I'll refer to the factory manual. The Haynes manual seemed pretty comprehensive so I thought it would be adequate.
    Didn't get as much done as I thought today :/ ..... ohh well.

    anyone know the thread size on the bolt needed to pull the alternator rotor out?
     
  13. Dark-Farmer

    Dark-Farmer Member

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    I have been back at it recently.

    I split the cases and got the new primary guide in and am ready to re-seal the cases.
    I am still unsure of how to properly apply the sealant and I want to do it right the first time.

    I can't be the only one scratching my head about the semi-weak description in both the Haynes and service manual.
    So I enlisted my mediocre paint skills. I figure it would be a good reference to have on the site anyways.

    The red is were I am going to apply sealant. The green area areas the manual (from my interpretation) said to avoid.
    I would greatly appreciate feed back!!
    Also do you apply sealant to both the upper and lower cases or just the upper?
    Any recommendation for application? I was going to just apply a thin layer with my finger.
    (FYI I and using threebond, it was already purchased before you recommended Loctite K-Moe)

    [​IMG]
     
  14. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Burbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    You have everything marked correctly. Do not spread it with your finger (you'll never get it off). Cut the tip off of the tube and run a narrow bead. Since you are using Threebond be very careful when you get to the crank journals and the o-ring for the transmission oil gallery. Only apply it to the upper case and try to keep a continuious bead along each surface. I like to run a wiggly bead across the joining surface, looping around each hole. That helps to minimize squeeze-out.
     
  15. Dark-Farmer

    Dark-Farmer Member

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    Awesome Thanks for the response K-Moe!
    So just so I got this right, do a very thin bead and the let the case meeting spread it out a bit ?
    Or should I get like a old credit card or small putty knife and spread it out?
     
  16. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Burbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Just let the case spread the bead. That is how it was done during production, and that ensures that all the tiny imperfections get filled in.
     
  17. Polock

    Polock Well-Known Member

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    get a baggie or some other clean small plastic bag, squirt a ounce of your sealer in the corner of the bag, now twist the bag closed and snip the very corner of the bag off. now it's like a cake decorator
    for your engine. it doesn't take much, most of it will squeeze out. double check the split rings and a helper to guide the shift forks really helps
     
  18. rocs82650

    rocs82650 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I did as k-moe said...cut the tip on a slant, keep slant parallel to and ever so slightly above the surface of the case and apply minimal pressure to the tube. The tip will leave a thin layer on the case. Whipe the tip clean as you go to prevent build up.

    @Polock: that's a good one too.

    Gary H.
     
  19. Dark-Farmer

    Dark-Farmer Member

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    k guys cases sealed.
    Working away cleaning gasket surfaces.
    for the gaskets (particularing the oil sump) what do you guys recommend for treatment of the gasket?
    the Haynes manual sorta indicates to slap them together and torque it ... but should I rub some oil and the surface first for good measure?
     
  20. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Burbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Just put them on dry. That's how they are meant to be installed. If there are nicks on the mating surfaces you can use RTV or Loctite 518 (love that stuff) as a gasket dressing to help fill in the voids.
     

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