Question about production numbers.

I was able to determine that a little over 100000 of my Honda CB400F were produced.

I was just wondering if there was anywhere to find out the number of XJ700/750 X were produced?


I'm just curious, as the 400 was produced in considerable numbers, but seems to sell for a lot more than the Maxims, bikes you hardly see any of (I think as a Canada only model, the XJ750X is particularly scarce).


Cheers

 

AFIK the 400 was not officially exported.

 

Sorry about the confusion, the 400 I was referring to in the second paragraph was the Honda CB400F, like the one I bomb around in from time to time.

 

Oh, well what you see with the Hondas is the bleed over from the relative rarity, and high desirability of the early CB650. It happens with every make eventually. The hot bike isn't affordable, so people start buying the next-best, and so-on until even something as pedestrian as a CB400 (or a BSA Bantam) sell for more than they should. That hasn't quite begun to happen with most bikes from the 80's yet.
It was not too long ago (maybe 15 years) when none of the bikes from the 70's (exept a few iconic models) were anything but used bikes that traded for $1.00 or $2 per cc, even in showroom condition.
I think of the XJ line, the Maxim-X will be the first to really take off as a collector's machine, and that will be a shame. Motorcycles are for riding, not investing in.

 

"Motorcycles are for riding, not investing in."

This. I have more money in my 400/4 than it's worth, but that's ok. On a related note, it is said that the 400 is second only to the sand cast 750's in value. Dunno why, don't care. I also agree the "X" might take off in value some day...

If I could afford it, I'd own, and ride the following:

OW01
RC30
NR750
RZ500
RG500 Gamma. Oh to win the lottery.

 

Sweet baby Jeezu5, those are some pretty headers! What year is that CB?

 

Don't think there's any source for production #'s but I did a bit of research about the subject for my own curiosity and here's a few quotes on the subject from a previous thread:

I was asking a while back if anyone knew the production stats for these models? So I did a little research on the production #'s, and wanted to
provide an observation. It's based on the last 4 of the X VIN's members have registered at MicaPeak:

.............. Low ./. High
85 700X: 0137 - 4201
86 700X: 0850 - 2635

85 750X: 0466 - 1589
86 750X: 0166 - 0473

So I would assume the total production of each specific year/model wouldn't be much higher than the highest VIN# in the registry.

BigFitz52 replied:

Sure. Probably. This is an interesting question; the only variable being we have no idea how many VERY similar models (but with a different model code) were produced for other markets.

Per model code, yes; the extant serial numbers would hopefully give us a good clue. Except we have no way of knowing how many are MIA since produced.

I've driven myself (and Len) crazy on this topic in regard to the 1983 model year 550 Secas (all of which were produced in '82.)

And my thoughts after his response:

Fitz, so I want to be clear in what you're saying. For example, Serial #000100 could have been one model, then Serial #000101 may have been another model in the run? Said another way, they didn't use a set run of VIN#'s for a particular model (say 000 through 999). Yamaha just randomly assigned the next number in sequence to what ever model happened to be being built at that point on the production line?

As they say, "The world will never know".

I don't care how rare or uncommon my 750X is 'cause I have to agree with K-moe that motorcycles are for riding.

BTW really nice 400F.

Tony

 

Thanks. The 400F makes me smile every time I ride it, even as slow as it is...

Think it would be possible that there would only be 1100 or so '85 XJ750X's? And 500 '86's? Anything that scarce would command a higher price on the market, wouldn't it? Cripes, they made almost 10000 RG500 Gammas, and they all go for 15-20k+.

 

The X was produced more than the -'Airhead' but so many people wrecked/ burned/trashed the X that now the airhead is more common than the X.

 

My neighbour had an '85 airhead (700cc, even in Canada). I had an '84 750 airhead, in black, as did my cousin. Neither of them are in the same league as the "X". The magazines at the time claimed to prefer the airhead, but I can't bring myself to agree. Time has been good to the X, and twisting the loud handle backs it up. "Here harley harley..."

 

The spread in VIN #'s above doesn't show the last of the production numbers just the highest one registered in each category. Naturally they would start at 0001, so it's likely the gap between the 1st off the line and the last is a bit larger and total numbers are still speculation.

I had an '85 700x that I sold (who know if it's still around). I also bought 2 700's as parts bikes, one was wrecked and the other was so rusted from being outside and neglected. Various parts were used in the build up of the 750X I have now. I also picked up an '85 700 "air head" for misc. parts a while back too. Everybody has some sort of story about the X models from back in the day, but the "air heads" seem to get overlooked, which is plenty fast for what it is.

Sure some machines are more "collectible" than others, but most of us on here enjoy being an "active" motorcyclist and hate letting them just sit and gather dust. Make sure it's safe and well tuned, then go out and have some fun.

Tony

 

Ummmm..... I believe the production numbers start at 000101, not 0001.

 

I'm definitely not an expert on this subject and forgot about the 0101 starting point for Yamaha VIN's.
Thanks for pointing that out. Too bad there's no accessible data base to get true production #'s from.

Hogfiddles, I know you run a registry for the '83 Seca 900's, can you estimate how many of those were produced?

Tony

 

Don't know how many 900's were made..... They were produced for a number of years-- BUT they were only available in the USA for a few months due to the "Harley Tariff" being put in place. It is estimated that around 1200-1500 came in. Some estimates are are bit higher, some are a bit lower, and depending how you read them they all seem justifiable. I doubt that they were all done as one batch, so there are most likely to be gaps in the consecutive serial numbers.

The USA-delivered ones have serials that start with: JYA35H............

That all said, I CAN tell you the following:

1. There are about 90 on the database now.

- The lowest serial number is 0117. This is the lowest serial documented so far. This is the 17th one built.

- the highest documented serial number is 2627.

Dave F, registrar
1983 XJ900rk Seca Database (USA-delivered units)

 

Just spent a bit of time on the registry, and mine seems to be the highest serial # '85, 750cc at 1669. Contrast that with my 400F, with serial 6948, out of 9350, for '76. Probably worth twice as much as the Maxim, in spite of being produced in higher quantities. An RZ500, worth a lot more, with production numbers estimated around 9000..

 

Survivability is a huge factor in the value of a particular model. If it was a popular club (or street) racer there will be far fewer still around than it if was considered a weekend joyride.

 

True enough. Many RG500s were raced into the ground. RZ350s are also getting quite scarce, even here in Canada where they could be had for quite a while. Cheap, quick and disposable...

 

If the particular model is desirable they will command a higher price no matter how many were produced. Factor in the ones that have been "restored", and that tends to bring up the $ they sell for. For most, the asking prices never even get close to what is truly invested in them time or money wise.

I believe desirability trumps rarity in most cases. So even if there's no definitive answer on actual production #'s of the Maxim X models, I think if they produced more of them, greater numbers of riders would have had the chance of experiencing how unique they are. Therefore that would've helped them be more desirable in this day and age compared to other models.

With that said however, during the mid 80's, the 4 stroke sport bikes were coming of age, and the cruiser market (V-Twin) was focusing on that type of buyer to increase sales. Caught in the middle were Standards, and bikes like the Maxim X and Kawasaki ZL models with their inline 4 cylinders. Unfortunately, those types of bikes got fazed out of production because the manufacturers' saw the trends.

And just a fun fact, of all the Yamaha models that used the 'Genesis 5 valve" engine, only the Maxim X has shaft drive. In my book, that makes it rare and desirable, and I'm glad the prices for them are reasonable.

Spend some more time on the X, and I think your 400F will be getting jealous real fast.....

Tony

 

"Factor in the ones that have been "restored", and that tends to bring up the $ they sell for. For most, the asking prices never even get close to what is truly invested in them time or money wise."

This.

I have over $5k in my 400F (not counting the hundred-ish hours of my time), and it might fetch $3500. I have $1800 (not counting the hour I spent changing the tires ) in the X, and was offered $2500 on the spot (in the condition it was, I would have paid that much too).

The 400F will still be the "ride it on a special occasion/go for a leisurely ride to town bike". The X will pull the longer/faster haul duties. There will be room for both. I am still looking for an '88-90 GSXR, or a mid '90s Ducati 900SS.

If you gave me new Harley money ($25K), I would buy five old "classics in the making" rather than one new one. New bikes don't "speak to me"...

 

I'm in the "Have way more into it than I could get for it" club too. Been that way for me on practically every performance machine that I've owned over the years, be it a car or motorcycle.

It's the number of remaining Maxim X models that make them more "uncommon" as Hogfiddles pointed out.
Nice examples like both your 400F and 750X will be great to maintain and enjoy, and it's nice to know you could get decent money if you ever sell them. Just don't expect to retire on the proceeds.

 

About the Honda 400/4
In the late 80's and early 90's a group in Vancouver went about buying ever 400/4 they could find and exporting back to Japan. They sent dozens of containers full of restored bikes as a Honda parts manager these guys purchased tanks seats and pipes by the gross.
That is why there are so few left here

 

I didn't know that. I guess being on the other coast saved mine (and the one my uncle had, that ended up junked behind a shed, only to be retrieved by me, 35 years later to salvage what parts I could. I had read about David Silver grabbing a bunch of British ones, but the West coast caper is new to me.

I guess I can go to bed tonight knowing something I didn't this morning...

 

So... I nerded out a little on my bike tonight, after spotting this thread. I saw somebody mention that MicaPeak site, and went snooping. For my bike (XJ750J), I looked for the highest and lowest vin IDs, and subtracted. Based on those numbers, I came up with at least 11,456 being made. But, I bet there were quite a few more - remember the infamous tariff. Also, I remember reading somewhere that most vehicles disappear at about 5% per year. I upped the number of '82 Maxims made to a theoretical 20k, and conservatively subtracted 3% per year.

End result (with a little rounding for good clean numbers since we have no idea): with possible production of 11k - 20k , there are theoretically 3600 - 7000 1982 Maxim 750s left in the world.

And that's all my nerding out for the month. how 'bout them apples!?

(found an insurance table of survivor rates, and did math again... according to an insurance company, there would be ONLY 344 xj750j bikes left in 2017. EGADS!)

 

I read this thread with interest as it's always neat to find out how many of each model was produced. I also owned a CB400F Supersport and that was a "cult" bike even back in the 80's, barely 10 years after their discontinuation. Wouldn't have mattered if that group hadn't bought them up....they were already highly desired. We have several people who have been snapping up the Kaw triples and sending them off to the UK & Europe for 30 years and many have made a ton of money but to me, they were just cheaply made bikes that were a blast to ride so I bought a few and restored them to keep & ride.

I hadn't known the production numbers though....and 100K seems a bit higher than I would have guessed for only 3 production years but I'm not going to argue since you did your homework. I only sold my all original '76 a few months back. I liked the little bike but I mostly collect Kaw triples....and the little 400 just didn't have enough power....but it is an excellent handling little bike and a lot of fun to ride but it became "expendable" when I needed the space for a GT750.

I think that the lowest production XJ was the '83 XJturbo. There were supposedly 5,500 XJ650 Turbo's built in '82 and only 1,500 in '83. Over on the Turbo forum, we pretty much figured that there are far less than 1000 on the roads today, anywhere in the world. I thought of that yesterday when I took mine out for a nice early Sunday morning ride.

By production numbers as the metric, the turbo should be highly in demand but it's never caught on in the collecting world. I watched Paul Miller sell a pristine original with only 2,500 original miles and he barely got 2 grand for it! Yet I easily got very nearly TRIPLE that for my 400F when I listed it on fleabay.

Even a well cared for Original CB350, a bike that Honda built nearly 300,000 68-73, in good condition, sells for much higher than any XJ that I'm aware of.

I could be wrong but my GF was offered "400F type" money when she took her '73 CB350G that I had given her out to Vintage Days in Ohio a couple years back. Here is here Honda in front of my Kaw 250 ....very dirty from 3 days of dust but it's always a fun trip!



jeff

 

The one bike I truly regret selling was my MT-01. I bought as a bit of a speculation thinking it's low production numbers would translate to big resale money. In truth in took a while to sell. Everyone thinks it is cool but it takes a special individual to take the plunge. 1700cc's of locomotive chug in a sports bike chassis sounds like a good idea, in real world riding not so much. This thing really did have more grunt than a rhino with a stiffy.
I read there were only 2000 units world wide. I should delete my pics because they just piss me off.

 

One thing to keep in mind regarding production numbers; Yamaha was trying to outsell Honda wolrdwide. They made a lot of motorcycles during that period (but not always a lot of any one model).