SUCCESS STORIES of PODS and 4 into 1 EXHAUST

- - - This thread is a data-dump for the specific modifications and the actual jetting that it took to make it work. You can also post combinations that didn't work. Just the facts, Ma'am !!

1. (Model) XJ750RH
2. (miles, or K's) 37,000
3. (compression average) 147 PSI
4. (elevation) 93 feet
5. (intake) PODS, no velocity stacks.
6. (exhaust) MAC 4 into 1
7. (jets, other mods) 118 Main (yes, smaller than stock)
(comments) The bike cruised around great, but had no top end horsepower. This was the as-purchased condition, and needed 124's

-------next----------

1. XJ900RK
2. 32,000
3. 147 PSI
4. 93
5. 20 holes drilled in airbox, stock filter
6. 4 into 1, straight thru glasspack, a bit loud.
7. unknown jets. Passed clunk test in situ.
(comments) Occasionally there's a transitional stumble, pulls strong at the top end, great gas mileage too.

---------------------

Follow the above pattern and post your info, with any luck this will become a guide for future modders.

 

Good god you never lower the jet size and make a motorcycle breathe better your gonna melt something. Add air take away fuel = Disaster

 

Well, my 750 is a good example of a bad example.

Are all the pod proud and loud pipe people suddenly silent ??

 

Ok have to admit my maxim x ran ok. It has aftermarket tail pipes with the baffles removed. I have no idea what jet sizes are in it. It would start very hard after it sits for a week. The low end throttle response isnt the best. I pulled the pods and replaced them with a pvc duel pod manifold .It starts a bit easier. My final decision was made to put an airbox on it. I bought 1 from a guy on here with a k@n in it. When i clean the carbs when i pull them I will install it. I am not sure if i am going to put the 4-1 exhaust on it if i do will jet accordingly

 

1. (Model) XJ750J Maxim
2. (miles, or K's) 20,000?? going off of memory (currently at work)
3. (compression average) Never checked
4. (elevation) Whatever Annville, PA is
5. (intake) PODS, K&N
6. (exhaust) MAC 4:1
7. (jets, other mods) I believe 124's I forget the pilots (I think one over stock). I'll check my notes on my desk at home, if I can find them.

Only rode about 500 miles last year. But, rode AWESOME. Plugs looked great after each ride. Pulls nice. Very happy. Can't wait to finish the project and ride again this spring.
Thanks,
Jason

 

I've stated my case before. It's useless to fight for a case-as rarely as I'm on this forum- when the stock/airbox crew are here *everyday* screaming about how horrible pods are. I'm not being silent, just no longer wasting my time defending pods. I can't follow every pod post and tell people I run open exhaust and stock jets and my bike runs great. I do however like to keep the purests in check and get 'em riled up sometimes, after they've written 2 paragraphs about why not to use pods. The bottom line (for me) is that I know pods can be ran and tuned to the "razors edge", and those that don't believe can keep wasting their days writing about why pods won't work. It's really not hard to get them tuned perfectly with the correct skillset and toolbox. I'VE GOT 15,000+ MILES ON MINE TO PROVE IT.

 

pods success story

1. (Model) XJ750RH
2. (miles, or K's) a lot! took the speedo off the bike at 86,000miles. no oil smoke or consumption. i dont know if the engine was rebuilt previous to my owning it.
3. (compression average) unknown, it starts right up in sub zero temps, so it cant be bad!
4. (elevation) usually sea level, often travels up to 1000feet above.
5. (intake) PODS, no velocity stacks.
6. (exhaust) 4 into 1 header (unknown brand) custom straight through glasspack muffler with 1 7/8" diameter inside.
7. (jets, other mods) cannot give it an exact number because i drilled them with carb drills. they are close to 122mains. went up 1 size on the pilot and was able to make it run but the fuel screws were almost 4.5 out, so i went up 2 and now the fuel screws are average 2 turns. ***the pilot jetting change was required BEFORE the installation of pods. i do not believe the pods would have changed the baseline pilot jetting at all. i installed the pods before i ever got the bike fine tuned to perfection so i cannot tell what difference the pods would have made.

the plugs are all the perfect dark tan for my average not-racing riding, or if i do a wide open pull through 4th on fresh plugs i will get a lighter tan. i do believe the pilot circuit is a little rich for the hotter days, but it runs beautifully, doesnt foul plugs EVER, and it starts and idles quite nicely for most of the riding season. the really hot days you can tell its rich, but it still runs fine and smooth. the very cold days (below freezing) it will require the enrichment circuit to start and run for about 2 minutes at high idle, then it runs just a touch lean on pilot, but not lean enough to worry me. it just gets a little rougher idle than normal and it will engine break and pop a bit more on decel. on a 70 degree day its perfect.

 

anything can be made to run on pods. It just takes time an a drawer full of jets. But most people get tired of pulling the carbs off and putting them back on. plus the cost factor of the jets. Also people tend to change to many things at 1 time and really foul things up. Most people put pods on also because of the pain in the but factor of getting the airbox reconnected to the carbs. Others think they are going to get more performance with them or like the looks. Bottom line is if you put them on and you like the way it runs for you thats all that matters

 

Cutlass, thanks for posting the well worn warning - - that'll at least keep RickCo out of this thread. :wink:

There will always be new guys showing up here, already having PODS, wanting to POD, hardtail or frame modders, all needing advise.

To help others post easier, here's a template to cut-and-paste:

1. (Model) XJ
2. (miles)
3. (compression average) PSI
4. (elevation) feet
5. (intake)
6. (exhaust)
7. (jets, other mods)
(comments)

 

I'm with Kevineleven on this one. Everytime I comment on pods I'm accused of giving bad advise and I'm leading someone down a dark empty road full pain and sorrow even though I tell them to go ahead and try pods if you don't like them you can change everything back to stock. This is why I spend 99% of my time on thechopperunderground.com hundreds of hardtailed bobbers, and cafe racer running pods with modified exhaust and know one bitching about it. If pods where so impossible to tune and damaging to bikes I think people would have stopped buying them long ago think about supply and demand.

 

1. (Model) XJ650
2. (miles, or K's) Around 33,000
3. (compression average) unknown will get to it 1 day
4. (elevation) just a guess but any where from 1-20feet??
5. (intake) home made velocity stacks, and a uni filter from jcwhitney. The stacks I have made hold the filter inside them.
6. (exhaust) 4 into 2 to straight pipes. Will be changed
7. Stock jets. Will be changed when ready.

Running on the lean side. The bike is pretty much done but not completed yet. I am not one sided about the pod thing. Although I am not running the stock box I understand the non pod guys. To each there own, correct? When I find the right bike I will restore it, no mods. I love seeing originals but love to express myself by molding a bike. Thankfully there are enough Junkers out there to chop for cheap. Once I find the bike I am looking for I will have my experiment and my restoration. My garage has room for more than just a bobbed rat rod.

You have to love a clean bike, but also the art and style of a dirty bike.

 

I took the time to make a video of my bike starting and idling and revving perfectly with no signs of backfiring or any negative performance yet somehow that video got no response from the "it can't be done" crew. As if noone wanted to comment when they were proven wrong. Go figure. Its till up here somewhere I'm sure. Dig deep in the archives I guess

 

http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=12893.html

there ya go bud, I remember the video, but this computer has "missing plug-ins" that i installed twice.... wish it was on youtube..

 

Alright, try this one on:
xj550,
unknown miles
Unknown compression
1-3k feet
I'm running no filters and its running fine, doesn't start worth a damn in the cold (I still don't know why using a heat gun on the carbs and bloke help make it start), but when its running it runs great.
4 into 2 stock exhaust
Unknown Jetting (I've been told its been modified though)
I'm running no filters and its running fine, doesn't start worth a damn in the cold (I still don't know why using a heat gun on the carbs and bloke help make it start), but when its running it runs great.

 

It is on youtube. Search " xj chopped stretched".

 

Grab the dogs and hide the kids !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K23pNFxG ... 5&index=49

Those are individual header tubes 6-7 feet long !!
I liked it rusty and unfinished, but it's so hard to maintain rust.
Awesome build Kevin.

 

I see my words in the other thread have had their intended effect. I'll likely never go with pods, but it's good to see those who like to mod doing it sucessfully! I'm still working on getting it to run right in the original configuration. Maybe one day.

 

That chop of Kevin's is my favorite XJ chop. I love it. I hope mine turns out as nice. Since I am starting with just and XJ550 frame and motor I can do anything I want. Don't have a stock airbox for it so gonna go pods on it. I think the main point that has been made on here is that pods are not an install and go type of part. They cause the need for rejetting which takes time to get right for your bike. For some the trial and error part of it gets to be too much. It can be done as has been shown with many members' bikes. Lots of failed attempts too. Success is really determined by the owners determination to get it right along with the proper know how of how to tune a bike.

 

I do get a little concerned with the focus on only pilot screw adjustment, or even just jet size. We need to be aware that needle size and shape, emulsion tube holes, and float levels can all be altered to tune the bike at different levels of throttle and speed.

It's not a simple process, and I know sometimes what feels faster isn't what is faster. We need to do quarter mile times (or eighth mile times, more realistically) to determine power in lieu of a dyno.

In line with this thread, maybe we should list any other mods to the carbs, and cooresponding 1/8 mile times/speeds?

 

I have to agree with with this. It is really hard to tell how much power you have gained without a Dyno. My bike is all stock but I will have to re-jet it because I did put a K&N air filter on it. Would like to pipe it also but one thing at a time. I like to run Trick Racing fuel in it for a real Boost.

 

1. XJ650G
2. 39,000
3. unknown compression
4. 4200' ASL
5. K&N Pods and breather
6. Stock
7. Unknown jets

The bike seems to run well. Possibly the pods are a good match for the altitude. The engine gets more air with the K&Ns which helps to compensate for the lower air density, creating a better A/F mixture with the overly rich sea level carb settings. I'm pretty sure this bike does not have custom-tuned carb settings. The previous owners were probably just happy that the bike seemed to run well.

As someone just discovering this pod debate I think some of you are missing the point. The guy with the 100% original bike and the guy with the stripped bobber are enjoying their bikes for vastly different reasons. Who cares if you give up some power/mileage if your bike looks and sounds awesome.

I still wonder why people spend so much damn money on a certain make of American motorcycle that doesn't turn, stop, or accelerate as quickly as a Toyota Camry. Why do some motorcycle riders dress up like pirates? Why does Europe get a large number of do-everything , upright sport bikes while the US focuses on cruiser clones?

 

Sounds awesome, btw. Less harley and more WWII fighter.

 

bradyb just keep an eye on your plugs. A lean-running XJ is a real screamer, right up until it holes a piston.

The XJ motor was designed to run to a 9K or 10K redline; and all the really fun stuff doesn't start until 6K. If you never get over 5 grand on the tach, you may never notice "the loss." Just be sure you're not burning up your motor in the process.

 

I'll be careful. My Dodge 383 will burn through plugs every 6-10 months.

This may sound like a strange question but can you smell the engine running hot? In my auto/plane experience I've been able to smell an engine running lean. The nice unburned gasoline smell is replaced by a burnt metalic/carbon smell. You can also smell the engine block getting too hot when grease and dirt begins smoking. Has anyone used a laser thermometer to check head temps?

With the bike using the stock exhaust, the standard back pressure is probably enough to restrict air flow.

What are the pistons made of btw?

 

A cheesy type of cast aluminium.

 

All the aluminum on these bikes is some sort of aluminum-butter alloy. Use of a torque wrench for virtually every fastener is highly recommended; stripped and/or broken bolts are way too common if you don't.

I've never needed to use a torque wrench on the Norton, except for torque-spec'ed motor parts like the head. These bikes have a torque spec for every blasted fastener on the bike, and you'd better adhere to them, trust me.

 

And the torque specs are found in the repair manuals, do we have a torque spec list?
Looks like I'm going to have to find a smaller torque wrench.

 

You'll need a "micrometer" wrench that does inch-pounds; one with a range of 25~250 in/lb is ideal; and a larger wrench with a 10~100 FT/lb range (which it sounds like you already have.) Check out K-D Tools' #3459 for the lighter one.

Yes, there is a comprehensive torque spec chart in the back of every factory manual.

 

1. (Model) XJ650J
2. (miles, or K's) 17000
3. (compression average) IDK
4. (elevation) 715'
5. (intake) 4 Cheapie eBay PODS, soon to be 2 K&N dual flange Oval filters
6. (exhaust) MAC 4 into 1, muffler removed, no baffle, short pipes
7. (jets, other mods) Stock engine otherwise.
(comments) Runs Great!!! colortuned perfectly!!! Success!!! Of course, I will have to retune when I get the K&N filters.

 

Congrats on it runnin' so well! Is it ear bleedin' loud with muffler removed and no baffle???

skillet

 

1. (Model) XJ750J
2. (miles)pushing 60k
3. (compression average) PSI unknown
4. (elevation) 841feet
5. (intake)K&N ovals
6. (exhaust)Vance and Hines 4-1
7. (jets, other mods) Dynojet carb kit (drilled slides) 128 jets I think
(comments)When properly tuned (I have a toddler) runs like a monster

 

When someone gets-around to fabricating a "Atmosphere Vent Bypass" that alleviates the Lowering of Atmosphere at the Kidney-shaped Vent due to Intake AIR passing-over the Vent Orifice due to a cyclonic and turbulent flow across that opening; the prevalent Lean Condition caused by PODS is going to be easier to defeat.

JETTING without addressing the REDUCED Pressure within the chamber below the Rubber Diaphram, ...

Which NEEDS Atmosphere, ...

To allow the presence of Atmosphere to let the Diaphragm collapse when its volume of Air is reduced by Intake Air Flow beneath the Piston.

And, ...

Supply the NEED for Atmosphere to Circulate through the Main AIR Jet to the Emulsion Tube's surrounding AIR Metering Micro-bored Ports to facilitate siphoning of the Main FUEL Jet Supply from the Fuel Bowl.

 

For those new here, or hiding under a rock, here's a link to Rick's Research -

http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=3 ... vious.html

Let's keep the Success Stories flowing - - 20 more and I'll collate the data, by Displacement and Model even.

 

those fernco couplings might work for someone thats missing the original tubes

 

1. (Model) XJ seca 750J
2. (miles)pushing 52 000
3. (compression average) PSI unknown, but starts easily in the cold ( -1 C today)
4. (elevation) sea level
5. (intake) cheap ebay pods mounted on flexible couplings for pvc pipes
6. (exhaust)4 -1, unknown brand
7. (jets, other mods) 6sigma stage 3 jet kit, which included 135 mains, 45 idles, 2 shims on needles, 3.5 turns out on mixture screw, and drilled slide holes. Original jets were 120 and 40.

I just installed the pods and jet kit. Prior to removing the airbox, the bike ran strong and pulled hard. Now with some tinkering with the jet kit and pods, it doesn't seem to run quite as well as before, but starts easily (t was -1 today) and pulls hard, but sometimes stumbles at 6000 rpm. However, this stumble doesn't always happen and seems to occur when at higher speeds. I aslo don't have a proper crankcase filter yet, could this affect anything? Like I said, seems at occur at high speeds....

Anyways, it already runs a lot better than I expected and I am willing to accept this tuning challenge. Plus, I love the look and am not riding a 30 year old bike for top performance.



pods vs airbox? I love that gap!

 

Here are some short clips of the bike accelerating. Please comment if you have any concerns about how the bike is running. Audio is poor, but I will try to get some better footage. There is also a rattle at 2:22, I hear it when accelerating hard sometimes, but never hear when just reving. Perhaps not engine related?

[video=250,200]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VE8KZVcp_MM[/video]

 

Sorry, here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE8KZVcp_MM&feature=youtu.be

 

lhicks, did you fab those carb to filter manifolds or buy them premade? Interested in doing something similar to my 550 Maxim.

 

Newb21, I bought them at canadian tire, but I would think that any hardware store should have something similar in the plumbing section. They are flexible coupling for pipes. I think they were 1.5 inch couplings.

Hope this helps

 

What size pods fit in the space given?

 

Lhicks, thanks for the info

 

Bocaj25, I used 54 mm pods to fit the flexible couplings, but if you were going to mount them directly to the carbs, I think you would need a 52 mm. Maybe someone else can verify that. And your welcome Newb21

 

Good thread

 

I thought I heard a vacuum leak. I don't believe running the flexible couplings
are helping you. Why don't you fit the filters properly?

 

Looking and listening at your vodeo, I clearly heard an hesitation every time you begin to accelerate, just below 2000 RPM I guess.

It wasn't smooth in the low range.

 

It has a definite stumble. At the very least, a "weak spot." Stock XJ650R's don't.

A properly tuned stock bike would easily fit it for a new one. On a silver platter and all that.

Just sayin.' I know you said that you're not "riding a 30 year old bike for top performance." But if your 'mod' hampers performance over stock, then...

Unless you're suddenly getting 56MPG this doesn't qualify as a "success" story. Sorry.

 

1. (Model) XJ700
2. (miles, or K's) 33,000 roughly
3. (compression average) havent tested.
4. (elevation) roughly 250ft above sea level
5. (intake) PODS, no velocity stacks.
6. (exhaust) MAC 4 into 1
7. (jets, other mods) 116 Main 40 pilot, pilot screws 2 turns out
(comments) I just started tuning this thing. Wide open throttle pulls pretty strong. Idle is the shits when cold and gets better once warmed up. Either way bike will start easily cold with choke and once warm starts easily without it. I should be able to get it dialed in better once I fix the brakes and can safely stop while testing. Once the brakes are working I can going to work on the needle height and then get the idle set properly.

I think it should be said that while the pods are probably not the best idea, a lot of it comes down to the tuning of it and your experience or lack thereof. In my experience a lot of the issues tend to come from peoples lack of understanding how the carb actually works. When there is a problem, they also do not understand the cause. Also I suspect most people are trying to tune for pods on carbs that have worn parts, especially on $300 bikes that have been sitting for a decade.

With that said, I encourage all the people who have the sub $500 bike and want to mess with it to go for it. It will be great for you to learn on. Having an inoperable $500 bike is better than having a more expensive bike and screwing that one up.

 

#1: Valves in spec? NO? Then you missed #1. OK, maybe on your list it goes in between #2 and #3.

You also need to accurately wet-set the floats, and get it sync'ed. THEN you can "tune" it.

But not if the valves are tight.

 

I didn't realize the format included a fully detailed checklist.

 

Sorry, you were naming off all the stuff you'd done; and a lot of people seem to skip or gloss over the most important step. You skipped a compression test, and that's valuable info to have.

So are they in spec or not?