Wire Wheels and a 150 Rear - Virago 700 style!!

For those of you that want something different that the blender spoke mag wheels that every 80-83 XJ bike came with as stock equipment. Here is a way to change to spoked wheels F&R.

The Virago 700 came equipped with wire wheels in following two models.
The 84 XV700L, and 86 XV700SS. The major difference between the two are the color of the hub (Black on the 84, Silver on the 86). and the outer rim (Aluminum in 84, Chromed Steel in 86).

The nice thing about this is that the 700 Virago comes in close to the weight, and load ratings of the xj bikes. Eliminating the risk of overloading by using the 250, or 535 virago wheels. This also gives some beneficial upgrades to the front suspension. (Larger diameter forks, Fork brace).

84 XV700L front end on XJ750k Frame (Test fit)

84 XV700L front end on XJ750k Frame (Test fit) Front view

What you will need:
Front: You will need to get the entire front end (wheel, forks, triple tree, brakes) from the Virago. This is a straight bolt in using the taper roller bearing upgrade for the steering head. In the following list you will find that the bearing inner diameter is the same on all the models.

Steering head bearing sizes posted on Scandalon.

ID OD HT
Upper: 25 x 47 x 15
Lower: 30 x 55 x 17
Yamaha XJ700N/NC/S/SC/XN/XS/XSC (85-86)
Yamaha XJ900RK (83), XJ900FN (85)
Yamaha XJ1100J (82)
Yamaha XV700 Virago (84-87)
Yamaha XV750 Virago (88-97)
Yamaha XV1000 Virago (84-85)
Yamaha XV1100 Virago (86-97)

ID OD HT
Upper: 25 x 48 x 13
Lower: 30 x 48 x 13
Yamaha XJ400 (80-85)
Yamaha XJ550H/J/K/RH/RJ/RK (81-83)
Yamaha XV500 (83) XV535 (87-99)
Yamaha XV535 (91-94), XV535H/N (89-90), XV535SE, XV535T/TC/U/A/ AC/EC/F/FC/G/GC/ SFC/SG/SGC/SH/SHC/SJ/SJC (87-97)

ID OD HT
Upper: 25 x 48 x 15.2
Lower: 30 x 48 x 15
Yamaha XJ650G/H//J/K (80-83), XJ650LH (81), XJ650LJ/LK/RJ (82-83)
Yamaha XJ750J/K/MK/RH/RJ/RK (81-83)
Yamaha XV750H/J/K/MK (81-83), XV750SE (82)
Yamaha XV920J/K/MK (82-83), XV920RH/RJ (81-83)
Yamaha XV1000K/L Virago (83-84)

That covers the stem fitting into the bearings, but what about the height?
The real nice thing about yamaha whether intentional or otherwise is that the steering head tube is the same length on most if not all the XV/XJ line.

Measured length on XJ750K, and XV700L: 190 mm

The following list of lower triple tree mounts will all interchange.

XJ Lower triple tree mount
5N8-23340-00-33 UNDER BRACKET COMP
Used on the following models
XJ650G/H/J/K - 1980 - 1983
XJ650LH - 1981
XJ750K - 1983
XJ750MK - 1983

XJ Lower triple tree mount
1AA-23340-00-00 UNDER BRACKET
Used on the following models
MAXIM - XJ700N/C/S/SC - 1985 - 1986
MAXIM X - XJ700XN/XNC/XS/XSC - 1985 - 1986

XV Lower triple tree mount
2AE-23340-30-00 UNDER BRACKET COMP.
Used on the following models
VIRAGO 700 - XV700L/LC/N/NC/SS/SSC/CS/CSC/CT/CTC - 1984 - 1987
VIRAGO 750 - XV750U/UC/W/WC/A/AC/B/BC/D/DC/E/EC/F/FC/G/GC/H1/HC1/J1/JC1 - 1988 - 1997
VIRAGO 1000 - XV1000L/LC/N/NC - 1984 - 1985
VIRAGO 1100 - XV1100S/SC/T/TC/U/UC/W/WC/A/AC/B/BC/D/DC/E/EC/F/FC/G/GC/H/HC/J/JC - 1986 - 1997
VIRAGO 1100 SPECIAL - XV1100SH/SHC/SJ/SJC - 1996 - 1997

On the 550 model check the steering head tube length mesurement. 190mm
On the 650 & 750 models get everything for a complete front end swap.
On the 700 models. Get only the wheel. This is a straight swap for you. You use the same fork/brake/axle shaft ass'y.

Onto the rear.
Surprisingly enough. The rear is a straight swap with the following exceptions. The 650 uses a different brake plate and will require the use of the brake plate from one of the following. 700 Virago, 700 Maxim/Maxim X, 750 Maxim/Seca, 920 Virago.

84 XV700L Rear wheel mounted to XJ750K frame (Test fit)

Tire clearance at swingarm with Pirelli Route 150/90-15 M/C 74H tire mounted (Test fit)




On the 550 model: unsure if this would work with the chain drive.
On the 650 model: Get the wheel, and brake plate.
On the 700 & 750 models: Get the wheel only.

Note: The fork inner tube length on the 700 Virago is 735mm compared to the 670mm on the XJ750, and 608, on the XJ650. This will raise the front of the bike slightly and increase the rake by a couple degrees (old school chopper trick). This will give a 2.5" over fork on the 750, and a 5" over fork on the 650. I am sure that you can get shorter fork tubes through Forking by Frank to return the bike to the stock ride height if desired.

If you have made it this far, and paid close enough attention. You will note that the same can be done with the 5-spoke wheels available on the 85-86 Maxim/MaximX also.

Ghost

 

WOW! Something different, LOOKIN' GOOD!!!

skillet

 

i've been jonesin' for wire wheels to bring an old school look to the bike since i got her. thanks for taking the time to post all this info!

 

Very good info, nice work

 

Finally, a full write-up! Thanks!

 

Nicely done! I suspected this would be a pretty straightforward swap. There seems to be quite a bit of clearance for that tire......Vmax wheel/160 tire anyone? You'd have to fab up the rear disk gubbins but that's not a huge job. If the rake/trail thing isn't your bag, you can always slide the forks up in the triple clamps to restore the original geometry, or near to it.

Later Virago mags are a damn sight better looking than the italics rims anyway.

 

Thanks Guys.
skillet: Your right. Wheels can make or brake the outcome of a build up. There are only so many ways to paint the stock mags.

thorin: Nothing says old school faster than a set of good old fashioned spokes.

streetbrawler: Gonna try the rear on front with wires now?

RoadRash; Glad to see that I was not the only one suffering from information deprivation.

MacMcMacmac: I didn't plan on the 150 originally. But the tire was already mounted. Figured I should answer that question as well.
Fab up what? Just get a 900 swing arm. Already set up for rear disk.
The virago forks are not air assist. They can be cut, and retapped for height adjustment.
Later Virago 5- spoke mags are the same wheels as on the 85-85 Maxim/Maxim X

Hopefully this will open the door to something other than flat black blender spokes on the build ups.

Ghost

 

Haha, would have too late now, next project perhaps....

 

That looks really sweet, just might have to consider that in the near future....
Old School Baby!

 

Awsome,

I've been eyeing virago wheels for some time now for my 700
since the set-up looks the same.......but didn't think a 150
would clear the drive/swing assb'ly.

TIME TO SHOP LOL!

 

It looks like as far as head bearings go, I can swap my XJ1100 with an XV1100, but does anyone know about the triple trees or rear wheel? I would love to be able to put wire wheels on mine, and have that extra rake after I re-do it this winter.

Thanks in advance for the thoughts and comments. Sure hope this will work.

Edit: Also, thanks for the great info and write up!!

 

MiGhost Glad someone finally did their homework. About a year and a half ago i wrote a write ups on putting virago rear wheel on an xj i knew it would bolt on my 700. But When i tried to get someone to take measurements on older models it just went silent. You did your homework and provided a bunch of good info for people. I also went thru the motions on lowering rpm for highway use everyone was asking if there was anyway. I thought i found a solution needed to find someone with an extra dif. to count number of turns driveshaft makes to 1 turn of the differential no answer so i dropped that also. I figured there was plenty of people on here with older xjs that would be willing to help i was not going to go out and buy older xj stuff just to see if my theory worked. In fact i used the chrome backing plate off 1 of the virago parts bikes on my maxim x really looks great. Keep up the good work. I decided not to use the virago wheels And sold them about a year ago. but did use the slotted rotors on my max x

 

XJotero1 spokes on a 650

Spokes are cool !

 

Once again Thanks Guys.

Massimo: You have something to look forward to when you finally wear out those new skins.

parts: now you know they will work. Either the 84 or 86, no difference beyond what I stated above.

geissingerj: Measure your steering stem length. 190mm is the magic number. If you need to adjust the length of the stem you can get the bearings in different heights also. Unfortunately I do not know of anything the uses wires with the rear disc. Check on XS11.com. If its doable to the 1100 I am sure somebody there will know.

cutlass: It was probably your write up that pushed me over the edge! Just enough info to make me want to know more. As far as lowering the rpms, The final drive gearing (32/11 2.909:1)is the same on all the XJ series. There are some very deffinate possibilities that I have not yet been able to look into though.

Time: That bike was one of my driving forces. I just did not like the looks of the 535 wheels on that bike. Weight, and capacity is considerably lower.

Taken from Hanyes/clymer manuals, and Motorcycle Specs.
Model weight/capacity
XJ650 450/653
XJ700/750 515/749
XV700/750 500/748
XV535 414/505
As you can see. You would only be able to add 10-55 lbs to the empty bike using the 535 wheels before being over capacitiy on the wheels. Not a safe idea.

Ghost

 

That sounds like the old XS-750 final drive ratio.
The 650/750 XJ's have a 4.129:1 ratio.

It would appear that the Virago 535 can only hold a 91 pound lady??
I would guess our Spanish friend bought what he could find and that the above spec has to be a typo (??)

Awesome job sorting all this stuff out btw!

 

That number (4.129:1) is probably the overall gearing as there are three different reductions in the system (Transmission, Middle Drive, Final Drive). I have not researched into all the little details as yet. Deffinate plans for it though. Looking into the possibility of round a 25% - 30% overall reduction.

That spec was taken directly from the Haynes/Clymer manuals. I have not yet been able to locate the factory manual to verify.

Thank you.
I have a very annoying habit of having to know exactly what I am working with. It saves money, and headaches in the long run.

BTW. I am finding out a lot of very interesting things about the yamaha engineering proces.

Ghost

 

Well, I just went and checked, and you're right; looks like 2.909:1
I managed to find some facts in this here post by Woot.

 

This is incredible! I wish more builders posted like this! Keep it
up!

 

Hi MiGhost!

I was checking the back brake on my XJ650 today and for grins thought I'd throw my XV700L rear on to see ow it's going to look...trouble is that I couldn't actually get it on with the brake cover on.

Now I just pulled my existing wheel..didn't drop the final drive or anything so that is my question...do I need to pull the final drive, mate everything up, wiggle it in and then slide the axle through?

T'anks!

 

That would probably be the best bet. The stock XJ swingarm is designed only to allow a 130 tire to be installed without removal of the final drive. The XV700L came with a 140 tire stock.

This is the process I followed. (bike stripped to bare frame, swingarm removed)
1. Mount wheel, and brake plate to final drive using axleshaft through final drive for alignment (Do not forget the spacer that goes between the wheel, and final drive).
2. Slide brake/wheel/final/driveshaft assembly into swingarm.
3. Align driveshaft with u-joint.
4. Remove axleshaft from final drive side, and place into swingarm/brake side (collar/washer between brake plate, and swing arm, washer/castle nut on final side ).
5. Secure assembly to swingarm (4 nuts on final drive, castle nut on axleshaft, pinch bolt on swingarm).

Also, make sure you use the 700 brake plate. The 650 brakeplate is a different size (smaller I believe?) Can you confrim this please?

Ghost

 

Yep you bet it is definitely smaller!

When I do the swap I'll try to remember to take a side-by-side pic of them with a tape measure reference.

Thanks for the info!

 

I'm just curious, would you have to do this procedure every time you changed the tire or got a flat?

 

With the 150 tire, Yes.
There is just not enough room between the final drive, and swingarm leg to allow the drive hub to slide into place. The Virago swingarm is approx 10-12mm wider at the axleshaft allowing it to be done.

With the spoked wheel you are looking at pulling the wheel anytime you have a flat. While there are tubeless spoked wheels available. These wheels are not tubeless. Just one of the cons of spoked wheels.

The only critical points on the swingarm are the torque tube, and pivot points. The right side leg only serves as a mount for the shock, and a locator for the axle shaft. The swingarm leg can be modified to provide the necessary clearance. I am looking into some possible mods to the swingarm to reduce, or eliminate this problem (I don't like fussing with the driveshaft u-joint either. Major PITA).

Ghost

 

Would it be possible to adapt the Virago swingarm to the XJ?

 

Without a doubt. I am in the process of doing this myself. You need narrow the swingarm up between the pivot points approx 5-10 mm. It is just a stamped locator/reinforcement plate between the torque tube, and the right leg. The Virago swingarm will give approx 2" stretch to the rear also. But that is another mod to be done and written up.

Will this make fitting the 150 easier? NO!
When you narrow the swingarm. You also pull the right leg inward.

I am looking into a mod that will make it a 2-3 bolt operation with no further need to pull the final drive assembly. Very much like a true single side swingarm.

Ghost

 

I just measured my 750RL & 900 swingarm across the pivot point & its 285mm how does that compare to the Virago? :?

 

take the right shock off, i think it'll go

 

[quote="ol_750]
I just measured my 750RL & 900 swingarm across the pivot point & its 285mm how does that compare to the Virago? :?[/quote]

Just measured the virago swing arm at 292mm at the pivot.

The measurement at the final drive (inner flange to swingarm at axle shaft)
XJ750 142mm
XV700 158mm

The virago swingarm is.
7mm wider at the pivot.
16mm wider at the axle shaft.

Swingarm length (pivot center to axle shaft center)
XJ750 420mm
XV700 465mm

Hope this helps
Ghost

 

With the 150 tire. The point of contact was 3/4 the way up on the swingarm. Well clear of the shock (Swing arm off bike). The interference was not allowing the drive hub to slip into place.

It may be possible to loosen, and move the final drive to get the space need to allow the drive hub to slip in.

Ghost

 

Onto the rear.
Surprisingly enough. The rear is a straight swap with the following exceptions. The 650 uses a different brake plate and will require the use of the brake plate from one of the following. 700 Virago, 700 Maxim/Maxim X, 750 Maxim/Seca, 920 Virago.

84 XV700L Rear wheel mounted to XJ750K frame (Test fit)

Tire clearance at swingarm with Pirelli Route 150/90-15 M/C 74H tire mounted (Test fit)




On the 550 model: unsure if this would work with the chain drive.
On the 650 model: Get the wheel, and brake plate.
On the 700 & 750 models: Get the wheel only.

Note: The fork inner tube length on the 700 Virago is 735mm compared to the 670mm on the XJ750, and 608, on the XJ650. This will raise the front of the bike slightly and increase the rake by a couple degrees (old school chopper trick). This will give a 2.5" over fork on the 750, and a 5" over fork on the 650. I am sure that you can get shorter fork tubes through Forking by Frank to return the bike to the stock ride height if desired.

If you have made it this far, and paid close enough attention. You will note that the same can be done with the 5-spoke wheels available on the 85-86 Maxim/MaximX also.

Ghost[/quote]



would this wheel fit on the 750 maxim as a direct fit? http://www.ebay.com/itm/REAR-WHEEL-RIM- ... 500wt_1289

 

No one has talked about the splines on the drive shaft & or the universal joints. How do they match up between the Xv's & the XJ ? :lol:

 

Glad to see this post being revived. Mag wheels are easier to clean, but there is just something about spokes.....like clipping a basebal card to the forks of your bicycle to make it sound like a motorcycle when I was a kid.
Just found this on (where else) YouTube, things sure have changed since I was a kid! (Insert Razzes here) :roll: :roll:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjVNx4Cp ... re=related

 

The XJ700 Maxim/Maxim X 5 spoke wheels can be used in the same manner as the wire wheels. Direct swap on the rear with noted brake backer plate issuse for the 650's. The front will need the complete front fork assembly swapped to use the wheel, and braking system.

Ghost

 

The drive spline on the wheel is the same on both the virago, and maxim/seca. So there will not be an issue with just using the virago wheel with the maxim final drive. They both use the same final drive assembly with different driveshafts.

The virago swingarm/driveshaft is another story though. Being both wider, and longer the virago swingarm/driveshaft will not be a direct swap. The virago driveshaft u-joint is also different (different spline count), and will have to be adapted to work.

I have not been able to confirm this yet, but I believe the u-joint cross is the same on both the maxim, and virago. It would be just a matter of using the virago spline with the maxim flange then.

Ghost

 

I have just purchased an XV1100 swingarm & drive to fit to my XJ900 so I'll tell you how it works out. Cheers Andrew

 

Finally my XV1100 swing arm arrived...
Though the XV1100 swing arm is wider at the piviot point the internal measurement of the XJ900 frame seems to be sufficient to allow a straight bolt in. Will put up some pics & measurements soon. 8)

I'm going from disc brake back to drum which doesnt seem to be a problem , just need a translation on what you guys are calling the brake plate ?? :?
Also the shocky mount is slightly rear ward of the XJ mount on the drive.

 

The XV1100 shaft has 21 splines same as the XJ900 so no need to make a mod or adaptor just bolts straight on to my XJ900 mtr

 

The Brake plate is the panel on the right side of the wheel that the brake shoes are attached to.

Ghost

 

Thought that might be it , Thanks. Some of the aftermarket manuals call it a panel.

 

what bearing kit do i need for the swap for my 81 maxim xj650 ?
the xv700 bearing kit or xj650 ?

 

Nice wheels. I'd love a set for my MJ750 seca cafe(ish) conversion, but the only ones I've seen are $1k on ebay.

 

You will need to use the tapered roller bearing kit for the XJ. Those are the bearings that fit the neck of the frame.

Ghost

 

How did this turn out? Sorry, new guy to the forum but I like wire wheels more than cast, and in am looking at picking up an 85 XJ700 hopefully soon.

More importantly, is there room on the rear to re-lace the XV hub with an 18" rim? Clearance within the swing arm and to the rear fender and frame, I mean.

 

The XJ700 (Maxim), and the XV700 (Virago) will be a direct swap. They both use the same front end/brake parts.

As far as lacing on a 18" rear rim. The XJ700 uses the same swingarm as the XJ750R (Seca) which uses an 18" wheel with a 120-90-18 tire. The only place that may be a problem would be bottoming the fender on the tire. Longer/stiffer shocks might help with this.

Ghost

 

Its been a bit slow going over the year, but the XJ900 motor has had a complete rebuild & is ready to go into the frame. The frame isn't ready yet.

 

i see a line on the forks between the clamps, what's that ?
i like the hammer on a string, rake and trail measurements ?
looks good already

 

Our state regs are strict. We are only allowed a maximum of 550 mm from the centre line of the head stock to front axel when rakeing & extending forks. :?

 

Is that law in place for safety regulations or so the boys in blue can pick on bikers....or a combination of both??

 

We have the strictest regs of all the Australian states , they are a combination of both. We are a Nanny state. Height & width of handle bar , size & coverage of mud guards & chain guards are all covered in the regs.

If we alter the frame it requires an engineers certificate.