Stuck in 1st gear

Im going to keep it simple, im not finding much good info on this other than "break it open and fish around" which is where im at now..

I have the bike opened up on the shifter side..what do i need to check while im in there.

Ive got a spare xj engine same size and year as mine.

 

This is about where im at now, let me know if you guys want pictures of something specific to help me along

 

http://www.xjcd.org/emergency_guidectomy

 

Thats exactly what i needed to know!

Heres a picture of the rubber in there, i poked it with a screwdriver and its loose in there

 

Bad news tho. Found a large metal tooth in there thats broken off..it defintly wont fit through that hole lol and the rubber piece disappeared as i was trying to get it out of there..

Should i start to removed the whole shifter drum?

 

pull all the guide parts out but the bottom line is it needs the cases split to do the repair

 

Damn, so its gotta come off the frame to split the case right?

 

Yes, sorry.

 

Opportunity for a "How To". Your pics are good!

 

XJ750 Engine removal and split - Pictures.
XJ650 procedure is the same.

 

Im in the process of splitting the case, when i dropped the oil pan off the bottom i got these out, theres another black piece hiding in there somewhere, i saw it but cant find it at the moment.

 

I don't like what I'm seeing...........

 

The metal bits worry me too. They do not look like part of the guide. Hopefully they are hunks of broken oil pan baffles.

 

Im thinking im going to swap the nearly the whole bottom half of the spare engine i picked up..it has way fewer miles on it, its the same year size and model, anybody think thats a bad idea? Ive already got a set of engine gaskets on the way..

Im balls deep and not backing out now lol, and itd be hard to sell in pieces like this..

 

those pieces are big!

 

The only issue with this is that crankcase upper and lower case (and cranks) are all "mated" together as a unit, in regards to main (and rod/crank) bearing sizes. Those scribbled numbers on the engine case are main bearing saddle "sizes", and the crank flange-end stamping are the crank rod and main journal "sizes", and the combination of both determines what size bearings to use in a particular engine (con rods also have a "size" designation ink-stamped on the side of the cap).

Note that the hand-scratched numbers on the upper engine case refer to the main journal saddle sizes for BOTH the upper and lower cases (since they were bored as a matched unit) and mixing-and-matching upper and lower cases could result in issues.......

ENGINE BEARINGS:

Crankshaft Bearings:

Yamaha used a unique way of "sizing" their engine bearings, both for the crankshaft main journal bearings and the connecting rod big-end bearings.

The factory coded, via a series of numbers indicating a "size code", numbers onto the crankcase, the crankshaft, and the connecting rods.

The crankCASE has numbers hand-scrawled onto the upper (and possibly the lower, also) engine case(s) ---typically, behind/below the stamped pad where the engine ID number is, behind the clutch cover opening, but, in reality, could be anywhere on the case(s) --- that specifies the main bearing saddle sizes for that particular engine case:

http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/complete-xj650-rebuild.81981/page-2#post-498539

Note that these last 2 sets of 2 numbers --- “40’ / 46” and “45 / 40” in the above examples --- are the codes used for calculating the thickness of the shims used with the middle gear drive shaft of each particular engine.


The crankSHAFT will have two grouped sets of numbers on one end. The first set of 5 numbers are the main bearing journal size numbers for that crankshaft, and the second set of 4 numbers which denote the rod bearing journal numbers for that particular crankshaft. Both sets of numbers refer to the crank journals starting at the left side of the crankshaft (the #1 cylinder side, see the last picture in the post below):

http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/complete-xj650-rebuild.81981/#post-498538


Each connecting rod also has a number that is stamped (with ink) on the rod itself, right where the upper and lower shells meet.

 

I would not make any concrete plans until you find out what that metal came off of. Hopefully, like k-moe says, it's part of the oil pan, I looked through my pics from when I split mine and couldn't identify where they would have come from.

 

looks like the bottom of the cylinder sleeve.
are they magnetic?

 

Do you mean magnetic on their own? Or can i pick them up with a magnet?

 

pick it up with a magnet


the chamfered edge is why I looked at the cylinder bottom on CL
looked at oil pan and case halves and do not see the chamfer on the cases or pan

 

Ya that's what it looks like to me.

I think you're better off taking a pass on this entire motor and considering a real good look at your other motor.

 

EDIT: we posted that at the same time^^

Also aside from swapping the bottom components of the engines, mainly the transmission i see my other viable option as simply swapping the motors, after doing a compression test and more thorough inspection of the spare motor ive got..could make everything much simpler if right?

I can pick it up with a magnet..

 

he means can you pick the pieces up with a magnet, if so they could be the bottom of the cylinder liner. "steel"
if you can't pick them up with a magnet "aluminium" they could be the bottom of a piston skirt
stu

 

cylinder sleeves are steel (cast Iron possibly) the rest or the motor casings is aluminium.

motor swap would be the quickest and easiest thing. is it the same motor? yics

 

It doesnt says yics on it no..

This motor coming off the bike is yics..how much does that matter it looks to me like itll match up to the drive train fine

Doesnt yics have something to do with the internal combustion?

So let the responses about why this isnt gonna go smoothly begin

 

In doing some research. Having yics carbs on a non yics motor will give it about 15% more air, resulting in a lean mixture..could i just rejet the carbs?

Am i getting this right?

 

Your carbs should be fine, I'm not certain but I don't think there is any difference in jetting between the YICS and nonYICS.
I've only recently learned there are difference in the wiring, in which case you could use your existing pick-up coils, rotor and TCI.
I'm not sure about the charging side? Others will.

 

I think this was covered in your other thread .
yics motors use different TCI and pick up coils so as long as the correct tci and pick ups stay with the motor all is well.

you may have to modifiy the wiring harness depending on how the pick ups are wired. would have to look at wiring diagrams for the year of the 2 bikes

as far as every thing else it should all be good
motor swaps are covered in the information overload,

 

Alright im feeling better already about this then, honestly the pick up coils appear to be the exact same, the ground spots are located in the same place and everything seems to be identical at the moment..

To be clear though i will be using the tci and rectifier from the bike i have.

In that case would it be wise to swap the electrical components mentioned? i.e. pick up coils from previous motor..just to be safe?

Im kind of in the mindset of going with the devil you know rather than the devil you dont..meaning i have previously checked the pick up coils and point on this motor that just went kaput on me and know they are still good at well..

 

Incase your interested, this is what the pistons on the motor i got look like at the moment.

 

opps we are talking about a 650

650 J (82)and K (83) are wired the same the 650H has a different setup on the pickups

does your extra motor have the port on the side of the cylinders for yics tool that is what determines yics or not


the yics pickups and tci are different than nonycis motors. pickups have different ohms spec

 

yes rejetting may be needed. pilot air jet and main jet needle are different
Years & Models: 1982-3 XJ650 Maxim USA models
Carb Manufacturer: Hitachi
Carb Series: HSC32
Carb Model ID: 5N800
Main FUEL Jet Size: #110
Pilot FUEL Jet Size: #40
Main AIR Jet Size: #50
Pilot AIR Jet Size: #205
AIR COMPENSATOR Jet Size: #36
Starter FUEL Jet Size: #40 (non-replaceable, in float bowl)
Main jet NEEDLE ID: #Y-10
Main needle JET Size: #3.2mm (the main needle JET is also known as the "power valve" or "emulsion tube").
Fuel Level in float bowls: 3mm +/- 1mm (.118" +/- .039")
Idle RPM's: 1,050 rpms

XJ650 Models:

Years & Models: 1980-1 XJ650 Maxim, Midnight Maxim, and XJ650RJ Seca USA models
Carb Manufacturer: Hitachi
Carb Series: HSC32
Carb Model ID: 4H700
Main FUEL Jet Size: #110
Pilot FUEL Jet Size: #40
Main AIR Jet Size: #50
Pilot AIR Jet Size: #195
AIR COMPENSATOR Jet Size: #36
Starter FUEL Jet Size: #40 (non-replaceable, in float bowl)
Main jet NEEDLE ID: #Y-10
Main needle JET Size: #3.2mm (the main needle JET is also known as the "power valve" or "emulsion tube").
Fuel Level in float bowls: 3mm +/- 1mm (.118" +/- .039")
Idle RPM's: 1,050 rpms

 

That's what first think too. The bevel is a big clue----

 

I was going to swap the heads and slap the spare engine into the frame, but upon further inspection im going to rip both engines apart, in order to swap a piston into the spare engine, or the tranmission and rod into the engine ive been using..ill keep you guys posted but check out this piston in the spare engine, only one in there is like this

 

Measure before you start swapping. Parts wear and tolerances must be maintained.

 

Ouch. Now you know.

 

Well there's your problem.
Luckily cylinders are fairly easy to find in useable condition.

You could go with just replacing the one liner, but those are rare and spendy to find separately.

 

I wonder what could have caused that ?

 

The alternator chain guide blowing into peices. It has enough mass to do some damage.
Usually they just get ground up by the transmission gears though.
Note the big chunk of guide pictured on page one.

 

Makes sense, thanks !

 

Ive got a spare engine eith some cylinder liners..im thinking i need a press to remove them and replace them am i correct?

What else should i look into or consider, im waiting for a set of gaskets for everything to show up so im at a stopping point till that arrives

 

would be better to just replace the whole set of jugs

 

^^^ what he said.
Just make sure to measure the spare cylinder set to make sure that they are useable (not egg shaped, not in need of a re-bore). Ideally you'd want to swap the pistons over as well since those rings are matched to those bores. If you swap pistons along with the cylinders you will need new wrist-pin clips; they are a one-time-use item.