New rider and new member

Man am I glad I found this place. I picked up not only my first XJ bike, but my first bike period yesterday. Its an 82 XJ650 Maxim that the previous owner said had not run in probably 15 years. He rode it for a bit, then gave to his wife when he got a new/bigger bike. She rode for a bit and it eventually ended up in one of their garages, forgotten. He said he'd actually forgotten they even owned it.

Flash forward to yesterday, and my I got my father in law to go with me (I don't have a truck, and he does) on the ~5hr round trip to get it. $450 later and its mine. It turned over and wanted to start but didn't. I didn't do a real deep dive on it there, and now I'm working on fixing up all I've found actually needs to be done.

Carb rebuild. Gas tank rusted (and has hole on one side, rust spot in same location on the other, 15 years of condensation in an uninsulated garage)- thankfully I know some welders. Want to replace levers, cables, brake/fuel lines. Brake rebuilds. Exhaust pipes have cracks in low points from rust (that condensation during storage is gonna be my nemesis with this bike). Fuse box. Few other little things up front too... I'm very excited though. I'm really glad I found this forum. I've always found that forums far supersede things like Facebook in terms of quality and quantity of information. Modern social media just can't match a good forum. There seems to be a LOT of great guides, both text and video on here. I'm sure as I go through everything to get this bike running I will use many of them.

 

Welcome to the Collective/Asylum! Where "Upstate"? There are a bunch of us around that understand upstate vs NYC. Have you considered coming to Hogfiddles Central NY Carburetor Clinic on June 11? He is about 1/2 between Norwich and Utica. Check out
CNYCC#15 - Saturday June 11, 2022.

 

Heh, we were in Utica today with our daughter at the zoo. We're from around Saratoga.

I've never even heard of the Carburetor Clinic. I'll have to check that out. I won't lie I'm probably far more confident in my skills to get this running than I should be, but until I'm proven wrong I'm going to keep at it. Between YouTube and guides like on here I'm finding it's not too terrible to tear her down and get parts out to clean and fix. Seeing the state it was in I am debating if I should be opening the crank case even and cleaning the whole thing before riding. I am hoping to have it running inside the next month so it's highly ambitious.

 

You might be able to get away with draining the oil, filling with fresh, adding Sea Foam to oil and running for 100 mi. before doing another oil change. Of course all this after getting it running. If not ride worthy by June 11, consider borrowing the truck or father in law and bringing the bike to the Carb Clinic.

 

I've heard about using transmission fluid in engines that have been off for a long time. I haven't even cracked it open to see if there's oil in it at all yet, have been working top down. Should I fill and flush engine with oil, transmission fluid, etc before doing the seafoam run?

It does turn over, tries to start, so it's not seized up which is nice. I didnt know if I should consider opening and cleaning the whole thing up, or saving that bit for a winter project in the garage.

The carbs are rough. I wasn't going to split them, but I think I really should at this point to really get them clean and lubed properly. Waiting on kit to come to get them rebuilt. And the ultrasonic cleaner I just ordered.

 

Transmission fluid/acetone mix in each cylinder can help free up rings if compression is low due to the rings being stuck. About a teaspoon in the plug hole.
Since you son't know how old or dirty or broken down the oil is, drain it. If it were me I would not change the filter until running the oil/sea foam mixture. Then do a full oil change with new filter.
The carb rack needs to be broken so that the throttle shafts seals can be inspected /replaced. It's a bummer cleaning the carbs and then having air leaks around bad seals on the throttle shafts.

 

If you are feeling ambitious about cleaning the engine out, I would start with just cleaning out the sump (oil pan).

My experience has been that the sludge all settles down there.

What I would do, for what it is worth, is get a new oil pan gasket, remove the oil pan, clean out the layer of goo that you find in there, and then proceed with the flush of clean oil + some sort of solvent like @Huntchuks said.

I'm not positive if you can drop the oil pan without taking out the engine. You would at least have to remove the exhaust.

If you are not removing the engine for some other purpose, then it is probably not worth it. Just do the clean oil + solvent flush, then put in clean oil, and it should be fine.

Don't forget to change the gear oil in the final drive unit too.

 

this^^ is what to do when you want to clean out inside of motor.
buy seafoam read can add amount suggested . then ride it for a hundred miles or run it for 10 minutes any longer use some box fans to cool motor.
change oil AND filter. when you change the filter there is a spring and washer on the "bolt" side of the filter make sure you have both.
you may just want to buy them before you start just to make sure you have then. and will never have to change the spring again.

I do this with sea foam just before I do an oil and filter change.
it will do a good job you will notice a cleaner oil sight glass and the reflective area behind it.
cheapest oil you will find is shell rotella T4 then if you want to go with something else after thats ok too.

changing gear oil it is very important to remove the fill plug first before the drain plug. It would suck to not be able to remove fill plug after draining the gear oil.

 

Broken and in process of doing full tear down on them. I had to use vice grips to get some screws off without stripping them, even after letting PB blaster sit on them overnight. Seals are shot. Everything was gross, even had what I think are mud wasp larvae in one of the little connector tubes. My ultrasonic cleaner should be here in a couple days, I figure a half hour in some simple green in that will go a long ways.

 

I was going to pull exhaust off anyways because it's got cracks in both sides, at the low point, where condensation settled and rusted the pipes through. I want to, at a minimum, clean them good. Might see if I can get someone to fix those and my gas tank at same time; that or just replace gas tank and get a new set of 4 to 2 headers. Once I drain everything I'll do that with the oil pan gasket. I wouldn't have thought to do that. I'm *sure* there's stuff settled in there, seeing the condition the rest is in. Its definitely in a little more rough shape than I thought it was, but I'm gonna make it work.

 

Made the decision to not bother trying to fix gas tank, at least not right now. It can go on shelf in garage for a bit. Picked up a real nice looking 750 maxim tank on eBay for just under $200. There's probably a very slim chance I 'd get mine welded and painted for that price, so I decided to just buy it (and enjoy the longer range that the bigger thak will give me too). If I'm going to hit my 1 month goal (June 7) to have it rideable I need to pick my battles.

 

Straight simple green will discolor the carb bodies, might not be a big deal but FYI you may want to dilute it prior to soaking.

 

Simple Green or other benign cleaners may strip plating (zinc) in hot ultrasonic machine. If you see whitish particles rising off screws, etc., stop immediately.

 

Heh. Yea... I learned that one before seeing this. It was diluted but still pretty concentrated. Oof

 

Good to know thank you!

 

Getting the right tools for the job will help you out for sure. I started out like you reading that an ultrasonic was the go to way of doing carbs. Well to make them look good on the outside maybe. As for the jets and small places inside the carb, using the corrects tools is the only way to go.
https://www.amazon.com/Carburetor-1...=1652529199&sprefix=carb+jet+c,aps,174&sr=8-6

Also getting the right screw drivers for the screws will help them not strip. Most of the metric screws need a special type JIS I think is the type. These have blunt nose style and not sharp point and grip the screws better.

Take your time with the carbs, do them right the first time. Even though you might want to power through them and then get the bike going. Make sure you get the enrichment ckt clean in the float bowl area. That is one that is over looked often. Using a bred tie with the insulation removed will fit through the enrichment jet. Make sure you can pass cleaner and air through that before you put them all back together.

Do a bench sync and add fuel to the carbs before you put them on the bike.....to see if they leak.

Post some pics when you get the chance, we would like to see the bike and the progress you are making.

 

Carby's came clean. I need to borrow a 10mm bolt remover from my brother to get the last two float valve seats out (have replacements). Currently dealing with the fact that a bolt broke off on engine where the intakes attach. Found a local shop that said he'd help me. At first he said they don't work on metric bikes anymore, Harley only, but then asked what I did. I explained what I'm doing and what happened, he said if I bring the cylinder head in, he'll get the bolt out with welder for me. Im trying to get the head off now, can't even get it to break free. I'm worried I'll need to take the whole engine out to get it off even if I DO get it free, which will suck.

 

At least it left some bolt above the surface and isn't recessed.

 

The dowels between the head and cylinders might be holding the head tight. It takes a bit of time and perseverance. Keep at it it will separate. I used a piece of wood in the exhaust ports and hammered the wood upwards. Are there two studs and nuts at the cam tunnel head cylinder joint on your bike. If so they corrode to. Put some map gas heat on them.

 

Any tips? I've hit it, soaked it with PB, sat on the bike and used my legs with my arms for extra leverage... This is round two right now. I was at it for 2h last night, and have been working at it for the last hour too.

Exhaust is off, nuts are out, sprayed tf out of bolts with PB including the ones along the back that face the carbs. I have nothing pneumatic to use.

 

I used blocks of wood and a hammer as l said took me ages to break the joint with multiple hits on the exhaust ports upwards and using a timber lever on the carburettor side cam tunnel.

 

Copy that.

This is what I get for getting a project bike for my first bike haha. I'ma make it work. I'll consider it training for when I'm teaching my daughter to wrench on it when she's older.

 

Also there are some plastic sleeves on the outer most studs that collect moisture and rust and hold the cylinder block tight. I think they are there to "protect" the studs but..... Heat gun and PB Blaster in there might help.

 

Those were a lot of hassle for me. I did not know about them before I stripped the engine. They go up to just below the threads on the studs so might not not affect the removal of the head too much. Cylinders were another matter on my engine. If I have to do them again on another XJ I am using a blowtorch to burn them off as much as possible as they are visible through the fins on the exhaust side of the cylinders. The outer studs on either side of the engine don't have them because they are not exposed to the road and the right one is the main oil feed to the head anyway.

Here is one of the new black plastic sleeves on the stud on my engine. I used the shrink tube normally used for wiring repairs, I think it was 9mm or mabe 12mm not sure now. I think Yamaha used the tube to prevent the studs ringing on the cylinders, I read that somewhere on the forum.

 

So .... Here's the thing. I'm apparently just an a$#hole.

Haynes manual came today. Looking at it I realized that the little bolts on the front werent counted into the 12 holding it on. It was never going to come free; there's 4 more bolts on top that I missed because they were covered with leaves and pine needles. That's been vacuumed out and is now sitting with PB blaster, I'll try to break em loose once our daughter goes to bed.

 

Bright side to today, I got all 3 drain plugs extracted from the bowls that were stuck, also the mix screw in the one carb that had that stripped and stuck. Now I just need a 10mm bolt extractor to get those last 2 valve seats free and I'll be in business with the carbs. Then it's just a matter of finishing their cleanup, getting the few new parts I need for them from xj4ever and getting em back together.

 

Ha! That's the best thing I've heard all day @Adkride88 !! Very amusing. I love those kind of stories - we've all done it, and if you can't laugh a little then what's the point?

Sounds like you're making excellent progress!!

 

@Dan Gardner I'm trying, that's for sure. I am still hoping to have it going inside of a month. Maybe it's optimistic but I like to challenge myself.

Carb jets- I should have written down what size was where. My kit has #40, #80, #110, #120. I know 40 is pilot... I'm thinking 110 is main jet, 120 is main air jet, and 80 is the pilot air- am I correct in that assumption?

 

OEM data is here: http://xj4ever.com/catalog/c-hitachi.html

This is what they shipped with:
XJ650J:
Main: 110
Main air: 50
Pilot: 40
Pilot air: 205

 

I didn't even need to use a sawsall.

Funny how easy things are to remove once you actually take all nuts/bolts out.

 

@Dan Gardner thanks for the jet info

 

There's corrosion on some of the parts inside the cylinder head. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume yes, they need to just be replaced? Guessing at a minimum this gets ultrasonic bath, just want to make sure I put it back together as I should, and not end up needing to tear it apart again in 6 months

Yes, that's a spider nest inside of it too.

 

Corrosion? Not from where I’m looking. Don’t need to replace any of that. Clean the valves if you want with a rotary wire brush, be nice around the seats. Kerosene and paint brush the head, then pressure wash or hose it off. The biggest issue is cleaning the internal oilways, I would drill the end plugs out and replug, not sure if you have that capability? Whatever - don’t get crud into the oilways.

 

@Minimutly I can just wire brush these off? Surface rust of varying severity

 

I definitely don't have the capability for that, same as getting the broken bolt out of the cylinder head. I am taking that to shop to get it out since I don't have a welder and it's in there too tight for vise grips. Regretfully

 

Oops. Watched a video on YouTube and saw they annealed their copper washers to use them again.

MAP was the wrong gas for that. Started with 6 washers, finished with 3 + a blob. At least 2 survived for the main jets in 2 carbs. The other 2 carbs still need their valve seat removed. I'll order them when I order the v seals and other few assorted parts I still need

 

Yes, wear gloves and a dust mask - the wire brush will ruin your hands and the chemicals in the carbon dust is probably harmful.
Just had a close up look at the inlet valve in no2 pic - might be worth putting another pic of that up once you’ve cleaned it, it looks more rust than carbon, which is very unusual.

 

That side of the bike is the worst part. Im guessing it's the side the was against the outer wall of the garage it was sitting in for 20y. Carbs 1 &2 we're really bad, 3 &4 much less so. The inside of engine looks to be the same. I think it was just how condensation preferred to form over all those years and the water/water vapor in that side of the engine did a number on it.

 

Target is 4 weeks, week 1 officially over. Status- carbs mostly cleaned, 3&4 partially rebuilt. Exhaust off, cleaned out. Cylinder head off/cleaned to take to shop for broken bolt removal. Cam shafts cleaned. New gas tank en route (opted for a 750 tank for the look and extra miles). Front brake disassembled for when rebuild kit comes. New rectifier, wiring harness, throttle tube and cable en route. New blade fuse box installed (will need to reconnect to new harness once that's here). New AGM battery, spark plugs on standby.

I don't think that's a half bad week, having only done it a few hours each night and on weekends when my daughter was napping, especially since I've never worked on a bike before. Lots of learning. Let's see what I can get done in the next week. Bunch of parts en route, bunch more to order still.

 

I somehow missed this comment. I haven't even gotten the cylinder block off. Haven't even tried. I think I absolutely should be, so I can really get the whole thing cleaned, but I'm getting deeper and deeper into this engine and I won't lie; getting uncomfortable with my ability to put it back together in a working manner. I would love to pull it all out and get everything shiny clean but if it needs parts to be dialed in to tight tolerances... I've never done *any* engine work, not even on cars. Once it came to engine trouble, my toolbox has historically been my wallet. I need to watch a good bit more on YouTube about tearing engines down before I dive too much deeper into it. I can take anything apart, that's not the problem. Putting it back together is where I'm at the edge of my skill set.

 

Keep parts separated. Take pictures as you go.

 

I think I just effed up and two carbs are toast.

The float seat was in TIGHT. I've tried bolt remover with breaker bar. Tried heat. Finally got out screw remover, picked one that fit the holes. First one I picked was too big. Split that hole in 2 spots. Thought I'd just have to replace the one body, used smaller remover for second one. Cracked that too.


Are these toast? I feel like they are trash now. They even soaked overnight in acetone/ATF to really try to free them up. Fml.

 

Yes look like it, don't know if they can be repaired unfortunately.

 

RIP. Im debating on trying to JB weld them just to get through for even a few months, then replacing this winter. This is another hundred bucks in parts... I should have waited till After we got the house to do this.

 

Take your time with your project. It's easy to damage parts especially ones that have not been apart for decades.

If they cannot be repaired someone here may have the carburettor bodies you need.

 

Do all the other work you can, then put the bike in the back of the pickup truck and go to the carb clinic to fix the carb issues.

 

If time allows it, I'll be there. If we close on our house that week... I won't be. I'll have to put everything on hold so we can get moved (and then put bike repairs on hold to do the high priority repairs we know are waiting for us in new house). All we know is we're looking at some time in June. Not sure of the exact date.

 

@Franz looks like they're toast. I had with me when I dropped cylinder head off at the machine shop/HD shop in next town over. He said they're ruined. On a good note he did say my engine looks perfectly fine except that bolt, which he remarked would be easy to get out since it didn't break off inside the hole and had plenty to easily weld to a new nut.

I got a stern warming to not use scotch Brite on the engine, and he said just clean it up with a spray can and a razor blade, get new gaskets on it and get it back together and should be good to go. I'll just pick up a new pair of #1&2 and be good to go. I sent Hog a pm to see if he has some, and there's some on eBay too. I've got other things to putter on so I'll be plenty busy until I buy a new pair.

 

I had the same problem with a broken bolt on my 900f and got the machine shop to remove it. It is best to do that rather than risk making the part worse. Post some more pictures of your progress if you want so we can see how your build is going.

 

Times like this I'm glad we have really cold winters here in NY. It would have been a bad day to open that housing up and have that be live



I'm doing a deep dive into electrical now while I wait for my 2 new carb bodies to show up, and for my cylinder head to come back to me. I thought rectifier was bad, replaced it. Still blew new fuse, so I figure there's a crimped wire somewhere, or something's not grounded correct. I bought a wiring harness too so worst off if I can't find what's wrong, I'll just replace it all and see if that does the trick.