ooOooh man. Check out THESE plugs

Allright. Just took my girl for a test spin for about half an hour and came back to check the plugs. I'm still not sure exactly what I'm looking for. I've searched some posts like, "What story do my plugs tell you" and My plugs look AWFUL compared to his. I think... But anyway. Here ya go.

 

Close (clockwise) screws 1 & 4. Open 3. Close 2 just a little bit. How far to adjust them? Hard to say. Obviously 1 & 4 will be a large adjustment. 2 & 3, not so much.

Or, buy a colortune plug and let that be your guide.

 

Ok. Sounds simple enough. Just for starters anyway.
Thanks Sush!
I'll clean em up, put em back in and run her either tomorrow inbetween my double shift, or on Monday. The First SUNNY day in Va beach for weeks. Thank goodness.
All of those mixture screws, btw, were set at an Idle Setting of 2.5 turns after a GENTLE bottoming. So a defiante Valve Adjustmnet is in Order. And soon I imagine

 

Valve job or at least checking is always a good idea but 2.5 turns is just a stating point to get it running. They will vary so don't worry about that.

 

Cool! Thanks bill! Yep. Learn something new here every single day. Love it

 

I'll tell you I learn something new most every day too. That's what keeps it interesting. Sounds like you have fixed most of the major stuff now on to tuning where the real fun/frustration begins.

 

Lol yeah. I've had that bike in the shed for over two months! Just scratchin my head trying to figure out what the heck I'm gonna do. My girlfriend thought I was gonna give up the first couple weeks. Then she saw I was really into it. She told me the other day she was actually proud of me! Lol. Dont hear that too much as an adult

 

It's really difficult to read from a digital picture because the camera processes the picture for you. With the white, silver and black it makes adjustments all over the place.

If you're actually riding it tweaking the idle mixture won't change them much. The idle jets don't contribute much after 2,000RPM, and you really should be 3K+ for most of your riding.

I had my 650 set for a very rich idle. If I let it idle for a few minutes the plugs would look like your #1 and #4. After a ride they looked like lightly toasted bread. BTW, the area to care about is the part that appears white in the picture of your #3 plug. Everything farther up the insulator tells you more about the plug heat range than your running conditions.

I think you're definitely rich on #1 and #4 (if this after a ride without and idling period at the end). Things to check for rich at speed:

1 - "Choke" cable properly adjusted and enrichment plungers not leaking.
2 - float level.
3 - proper jets?
4 - jet needles got shims in them? Worn?

 

Awh man.. You just killed my mood! Hah! I'll mess with the float levels After I play with the Idle screws i guess. I'm pretty sure I have the right jets. Carb one I think has a jet from a 700X model, but the hole in the center of it is exactly the same as the others. Shims? No idea what that is for my jets. Worn? Maybe. They are kinda old. Could use replacing in the future.
Now my choke Cable could be a possibility. Dont know how to adjust it. And how would I check my enrichment plungers?
When I got back in the drive from a 15min stint, i let her idle for no more than 8 secs. My neighbors came out and I shut her off cause they wanted to talk to me.
Not sure if the 650s and the 700s are the same, but this gives me a new list of things to do if the mixture screws dont work.
Oiy
-SLKid

 

Been thinking about it and I think that a colortune plug would probabaly be the best bet. I'll probably pick one up this weekend. I'll recheck the floats and whatnot and while I have the carbs off I'll check the Jets to make sure the numbers on them match Chacals Chart. Thanks guys! I'll keep you updated on Plug Chops and further fine tuning on my plugs here.
-SLKid

 

Hey Kid
I'm not sure about the rich thing. The insulators 1 and 4 indicating way too rich. Nr 2 is rich a bit. 3 is lean, that's fine but what about the ground electrodes? They are all white (till the curve) which means a lean condition.

If I'm anal I would say you're running lean at idle because the ground electrode is the part of the spark which reaches the combustion chamber most. (I hope you understand what I was about to say) In that case the ground electrode will indicate the overheating first. But right now that's my speculation only because all the sources are talking about ignition timing when reading the ground electrode but not mixture reading.

By the way:
http://www.dragstuff.com/techarticles/r ... plugs.html
http://www.4secondsflat.com/Spark_plug_reading.html

 

Actually, Yes Z. I am a little confused as to what you are talking about. Where is this ground Electrode and how do I find it? I just tuned the mixture screws a bit and took her for a little ride. I gotta post about that one. Tomorrow I'll ride and post new pics of the plugs after a plug Chop

 

Never mind Just do what you was about to do and let's see how your spark plugs look like.

 

SLK.................a spark plug has a POSITIVE electrode that runs top-to-bottom, straight thru the center of the plug. This is a straight shaft of metal, and is what pokes it's steely metal head out of the top of the plug (where your spark plug wire/boot attaches). This positive electrode runs straight down thru the middle of the plug, and then sticks it's other end out a tiny amount from the white ceramic (think: toilet bowl material) INSULATOR surrounding the positive electrode in the center of the plug "bottom".

The electrical current comes from the coils, down the spark plug wires, and then down this positive electrode (insulated by that white ceramic INSULATOR), and then jumps the small, adjustable GAP (empty space), producing the spark that makes things go "BOOM" in a most astounding, Chuck-Norris like way!

The electrical current jumps this gap from the end of that ceramic-insulator positive electrode to the NEGATIVE electrode, which is the "bent" piece of metal that is attached to the threaded portion of the spark plug body......since that bent piece of metal (the negative electrode) is "part of" the plug which screws into the cylinder head, that's the ground path for the electrical current.

The ceramic INSULATOR is what changes color in response to the combustion conditions inside the cylinder. When you get new plugs from the store (or, from me!), those ceramic insulators are a brilliant white, pure-as-driven-snow colour. As the fuel and air burns inside the cylinder during combustion, the combustion by-products "stain" this white insulator into a darker color.....a light tan if the combustion is "right on", a sooty black if the fuel mixture is too rich (molecular carbon is black, and "soot" is molecular carbon that is produced by incomplete combustion of the fuel, which is what happens when the fuel mixture is too rich-----not all of the fuel gets burned up, and what doesn't get completely burned remains as a solid molecular carbon, since gasoline is really a HYDROCARBON compound.....the "hydro(gen)" part of the fuel molecule becomes, mostly, water vapor, while the "carbon" part gets broken down into this soot, or, if the combustion is complete, becomes carbon-monoxide CO or carbon dioxide CO2, and a rash of other by-products).

If the insulator is black and oily, then that means that oil (rather than just fuel) is being combusted, and that oily goo is what's staining the insulator. The insulator is black, in this situation, because the oil interferes with the complete combustion of the fuel, once again resulting in the black soot.........

This "staining" of the ceramic insulator occurs very rapidly as the heat and pressure within the cylinder during combustion "heat bakes" the stain onto the insulator.

However, this stain color can and will change rapidly as combustion conditions change, and this is why a "plug chop" only tells you what "wassz happenn-nin?" (sorry, momentary old Cheech-andChong movie flashback there......) inside your combustion chambers in the last few moments before combustion ended. This "staining" of the insulator is not permanent (think of it more as a "coating" rather than a staining, if that helps to clarify things!).

 

Yeah Chacal! That makes a lot of sense! How the heck can you break things down like that so easy??? Years and Years of experiance I suppose. In that case Chacal, what do you suggest I do to test and tune this XJ700? Any procedures that a low budget wanna-be mechanic can perform??

 

Well, the words "low budget" and "wanna-be" are going to have to be remedied! Honestly, if you are forced to take shortcuts because of budgetary or knowledge shortfalls, you are going to end up paying much more (later) and have a poorly performing bike (in the meantime).

If you cannot afford (financially or knowledge-wise) to repair this bike correctly, you're going to have to either:

a) park it, and wait until he funds ARE available to do it right, or....

b) stumble through various trial-and-ERROR approaches, which can get frustrating and expensive, in a hurry!



Wish I could give you some "magic formula" that would make the reality of the situation vanish, but I'm afraid the truth is what we're all stuck with, like it, deny it, side-step it, or whatever, but............there it is. :?

 

I ran Maxine today for 15 secs in 2nd at about 3.5K Rpms while holding the clutch. Then hit the kill switch. Checked the plugs. 2 3 and 4 look chocolatly tan. Delicious. Number one looks dark, and a little sliver on the tip of the insulator probably some anti-seize

 

I think that magic formula exists. I'm trying to collect all the information that a newbie tuner should need and I started realize that most of the carb related problems are caused by
a.: misinformation
b.: lack of knowledge.

But you can address all of those. Read and understand. It's not necessarily easy (I mean the understand part) but that's the key. Along with the capability to think in an analytic way.
If you can't thin that way then write notes Especially when you got a short memory. It's pretty helpful and gives you the chance to find out what's going on.

Just a few but very helpful links for all the newbie tuners:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carburetors
Factorypro webssite -> Technical Support -> Motorcycle Tuning Tech -> CV Carb Tuning
Same things as above, but with a bit more practical description: http://justkdx.dirtrider.net/printcarbtuning.html (not for our carbs, but you should understand the differences)

 

If you want to check the plug color for idle, then after you come back from a short warm up ride, you need to let it idle about or at least 3 minutes. This will show you how your idle mixture looks on the plug test. From there you can set the idle/mixture screws to tune it in. To check the main jet, you need to run it around the 5500 rpm range for about a mile. Then while bike is running you hit the kill switch let off the throttle and pull in clutch and let it coast to a stop. You will need some room of course to safely do this. I did it while in 3rd gear so as not to be going too fast for safety. Then after it cools down, check each plug for color. This will give you your main jet setting or (open throttle settings)

 

I'd love to be able to do that.. But currently my RPM gauge isnt working properly. Wont move in Neutral, about 1k off in 1st, sluggish and I'm sure its off by a bit in second third fourth ect. What can I do to fix my RPM gauge? I'd love for it to work. As stated in my New Probs post I gotta get into the fuse box with some Kreeper Oil to change broken Fuses.
Oh. And currently my blinkers and brake light arent working from the drop in Bad Day New Probs post. Flasher Relay???

 

You need to REPLACE the original glass fuse box with one Chacal sells that uses the spade type fuses. You would not believe the headaches that 25 plus year old fuse box can create. I did from learning the hard way.
Good luck on the bike!

 

Kid, im not sure what the 85 700 has for fuses. Sorry i did not look closer at your bike.

 

Lol its cool! Thanks for the help. ANY info is good info to me. I'm brand spankin new to this and lovin every minute of it.
I'm teeeerrrible with elec work.. I've been dreading switching out the glass tubes with Blades.
I already need to re-crimp and re-run the wires from my elec box to my battery, and I'm not to happy about that either. I hate wires... Looks like the PO took a fall and did some of his own Elec work afterward.
But as SOON as I get in there and check out the fuses I'll start workin on a new fuse box. Will one still fit in the Dash??

 

Sorry im not familiar with that bike. Ive had mine for 2 years now and its an on going process to fix up a neglected bike for sure. But doing it yourself is the only way to go. It makes ridding it even more enjoyable.

 

Shoot, if your dinking with the carbs, the switch to new fuse box is childs play.

 

Nice guitar you have! What is it? Im a musician too. Drummer. Now running sound for a local rock band for extra ching. I have a ibanez GSa60 that i mess around on. Im not good at guitar thou.
Later

 

the 85' 700's already have the blade type fuses in the dash panel no need to do anything except maybe pull the fuses and make sure they aren't blown or corroded.

 

But the 700's still use (go figure!) a glass fuse for the MAIN fuse, it's located inside a small, sealed, in-line fuse holder located under the seat.....

 

Yeah I found the glasss main fuse a couple of times. It seems to be perfectly ok. What stuff does the main fuse control btw? Oh, and an interesting development (might have been caused by the fuses too) Is that when I brake with my foot my RPM meter drops to 0. Let off... Right back to where it was. IIIiiiinteresting.
-SLKid

 

These are electronic tachs? (mine is mechanical)

 

It was the fuses btw. Tach, signals, brake light, horn. All caused by the 15amp fuse on the far left

 

Well it least it was easy/cheap...