Having removed the rust from the inside of the tank ...

I have two problems.

The first one is that no matter how hard I try moving the tank around, shaking it, etc., I cannot get the last of the liquid and particles out of the tank, even though I removed the petcock and tried to get it to pour out there.

Second, how do you coat the inside of the tank afterwards with something like POR15? Do you just pour some in, roll it around and hope that you cover every spot? Obviously the petcock and sending unit will have to be removed first, but my hand is certainly not small enough do it, I'd need a tenticle ...

 

I use a short (6" or so) piece of clear fuel tube attached to the end of a turkey gravy baster............not the most convenient contraption in the world, but it works well. Turn the tank upside down, tilt it forward, then roll it over so that all of the fluid gets over to the "right" side of the tank, then tily the tank to the right and forward, so that all the fluid pools down in the bottom right corner............then go in strong with your turkey baster and suck that tank dry!

 

I just went through that before sending my tank off for overhaul. I drained all I could. I pulled the float and petcock and cap. Then put my air hose in it with the air wand taped open full blast for about 30 minutes all fumes gone no moisture, then took it to ups for shipment no questions asked, she enven smelled to see if there was any fumes.

 

When I cleaned out my tank, I removed the petcock, sending unit and gas cap to empty it out good. Then I used compressed air to blow out the fumes and let my tank sit over night to dry out good. Then I rinsed it out with hot water first before trying to remove any rust. I did mine using a battery charger and salt water (electolosis method) which works pretty well. Some use washing soda or baking soda in the water, which works too. It took about 2 hours to get my the out. Then seal it with Kreem, which seems to work pretty well.

 

When I did mine, I tide a shop towel (not terry cloth!) to a hanger. I put that all through the tank, etc. Then I placed my wifes blow dryer in the fill hole while allowing the air to come out the petcock whole. Dried no problem. (Althogh I like the turkey baster idea first). The towel got some "stuff" out of the tank also. I continued with the towel till it came out clean.

When I sealed it I ran it around and around a bunch of times until I was sure that it was all coated. Let it set for a short while, then turned it around and around again. It seems to have coated everything and is sticking to the tank.

 

different tank coating kits come with different instructions. You pretty much have to follow them to the tee, otherwise you will probably ruin the lining job.

POR15 is a 3-part kit. First is a cleaner/degreaser that will eat all the remaining gasoline varnish... Second is phosphoric acid which will dissolve most of the rust and turn the remaining rust into "black rust" which will no longer spread. Third component is the liner itself. You pour it in, and roll the tank around for about 4 hours so the stuff hits every corner and forms a skin... Then you drain the excess, and leave the tank alone for about 3-4 days.

Not all liner kits are created equal. Kreem, for example, can create too thick of a skin and if the metal was not prepped right, it might eventually crack and flake off in big chunks.

Red Kote is another liner that a lot of people have had good luck with.. Have not tried it myself though.

If there's a lot of scaly rust, you could dump a bunch of small to medium size bolts and nuts in the tank and shake it around for a while. That should knock off all the big chunks of rust. Just don't use really big bolts cause they can dent the tank from the inside.. Don't use really small ones either cause they might get stuck in a tight corner inside the tank.

 

I used kreem tank liner kit on my maxim tank. I had some really bad rust holes that were big enough that I had to spot weld them up. Kreem works very well. I have used it on other bikes that I have owned with great success. http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/ ... -Pack.aspx

 

I've heard of using chain instead of nuts/bolts to knock off the bad stuff and some guy on this forum used I think sand and tied the tank to a raised up truck tire and spun it around at low speed...do a search and you will see all kinds of stuff that we have done to try and get these things clean of rust. Must be a problem with these bikes

 

I've seen that one on YOUTUBE. The guy duct tapes the tank to an ATV wheel (I think) and runs it at a low speed with some type of rocks (?) in it to remove the rust. It probably worked, who knows.
Another idea that really works and cleans the tank out is the acid we use to clean our ready-mix trucks (concrete haulers) I did two tanks with it and it really shines up the inside fast! After cleaning the tank out and venting the fumes over night, I used about 2 quarts of the acid to rinse out all the rust, then rinsed it with water a few times.
If you have a concrete facility near by, I'm sure they will give or sell you a small amount. **It's very dangerous to use, so you need to be careful with it (wear rubber gloves and eye protection) and not get any on your clothes (it'll eat holes in them) and try not to breath the fumes! It's nasty stuff, but it really works.

 

I used acetone and a 8" piece of chain. it worked well.

 

PainterD,

Would that be muriatic acid or something else? I am trying to track down some phosphoric acid but am having trouble finding it. Is it going to leave the coating that the phosphoric acid will?

 

MURATIC ACID most hardware stores have it. be carefull

 

- Thought he was an alchemist
- Thought he was, no more
- For what he thought was H20 was H2SO4

 

Ahhhh. Our old friend sulfuric acid! You can get muriatic acid at any place that sells pool supplies (swimming pools).

 

I guess I really don't remember just what the proper term for that kind of acid is? (Muratic acid or Sulfuric acid) All I do know is it works very well. It burns like hell if you get it on your skin, just ask me.
Just call your local concrete supplier and they'll tell you what it is and where you cn get some. We have it in 55 gallon plastic barrels, but I don't think you'll be doing that many tanks!!

 

Isnt Muriatic acid Hydrochloric Acid?? Or am I remembering wrong. Damn CRS!!

 

Muratic acid is HCl (Hydrochloric acid) and will indead eat a little of you if you were to get it on ya. Simple precaution for working with acid, always have plenty of plain ol' H2O to flush with should it get where you don't want it (like on you). Don't panic, just rinse it off real good. (Except HydroFlouric that stuff is deadly!)

 

Guys; we had a big discussion in regard to this same subject a while back. http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=11733.html

Personally, I used phosphoric acid (concrete cleaner) but not until AFTER I tried another method that I wouldn't recommend:

I initially tried using aquarium gravel (crushed coral) and kerosene sloshed around inside. It DID break loose a lot of rust, however: Getting the damn gravel back out was a BEEATCH. Ended up using a variation on Rick's method. Took a long snout off a cheap auto parts store trans fluid funnel and duct-taped it into the end of my shop vac hose. LOTS of shaking, cursing and vacuuming to get all the blasted gravel out.

BAD IDEA.

I ended up trying the phosphoric acid method; flushed with soapy water followed IMMEDIATELY by mixture of 50/50 kerosene and SeaFoam; new petcock/screen and inline fuel filter, ran two SeaFoam treated tanks of gas through and it's wunnerful. I did need to replace the gas cap seal, it was already a bit on the rock-hard side and the phosphoric acid killed it the rest of the way, it started leaking badly.

 

Fitz,
I read that previous thread and one or two others discussing electrolysis.

The one item I haven't seen answered although the question was posed a few times is how long to leave the phosphoric acid in the tank.

Equally important but untouched/unasked is what mix ratio of what strength of phosphoric acid? Various preparations will already be a a certain mix ratio, such as Diet Coke having a low ratio, where as others will have much higher, including pure ...

Finally, I have been stumped to find and around here. None of the auto shops, local hardware store, or home improvement stores carry it. One pointed me to a nursery, but they didn't have it either.

I see one comment above that says it is called concrete cleaner sometimes ... is that the only thing that would be called concrete cleaner?
I thought muratic acid (HCl) was used for that?

Finally, regarding rust in the fuel, it has been said that it can "dissolve" in gas as particles as small as 5 microns ... would it work to put a strong magnet on the fuel line/fuel filter to pick up such particles?

It would seem like even inserting one of the small but powerful rare earth magnets on the tank side of the fuel filter would be very effective?

 

Biff.....go to your local ACE hardware and get "Ospho" (green fluid in a clear quart container). It's phosphoric acid with a dollop of other healthy, nutritous additives thrown in for good measure. You swish it around inside the tank for a minute or two, and then dispose of it properly. If you don't plan on using hte tank on a bike right away, fog the inside with fogging oil, tape shut or otherwise close up all openings, and you're done!

Concrete cleaner IS muriatic acid, and it works great at rust REMOVAL, but it is nasty stuff.

Phosphoric acid is a metal etch and rust NEUTRALIZER (it turns any rust into a black oxide) and sealer.

A magnetic might not be a bad idea........

 

Thanks Chacal,

I was out trying to find things earlier and finally tracked some down at Lowe's. They don't know it as phosphoric acid, but they did have one thing other than naval jelly that was phosphoric acid: Seal Krete Concrete Clean-N-Etch - 2qt bottle.

I wish I had known earlier that muriatic acid was okay to use as they have that in gallon jugs. <grrrr> I am still unclear though as to how long to leave it in the tank so as to eliminate rust without eating away the good metal ...

 

Okay, just BE CAREFUL. You DO have a set of goggles and plan to use them, right?

 

You don't need to leave it long. Swish it around and look. The rust you can see will turn black and the metal a greyish purple color. My kit was then to flush it when it was done with water.

 

I guess when I used acid to do my tanks, I poured it in (about 1/2 full) ans swished it around for about 5 minutes to let it do it's magic, then emptied it out and did it a second time to get what was left. Then I rinsed the tank out with water three times to nuetralize the acid and clean it out good.
Like others noticed, they don't seem to empty out completely, so you need to use a turkey baster, or something similar, so suck out the tank completely. The use a blow dryer or atleast a fan to dry it out right away, before sealing it.

 

Thanks all.

Yes Chacal, goggles. Without a doubt.

Thanks for the info on length of time.

I was planning an initial rinse with baking soda/water mixture (baking soda being a base which will quickly neutralize the acid) followed by a clear rinse of water, a bottle of dry gas, then the blow drier.

So I'll get some muriatic acid tomorrow, rinse that first, the the phosphoric, etc. Should be nice and clean when done.

 

You should only need one kind of acid. The stuff you found at Lowes was what I used. Best rust preventive once done is to fill the tank with gas (make sure you've "oiled" the inside first to protect the parts that gas doesn't touch.)

 

Bottle of dry gas? Not sure what that is, but don't put anything flammable in the tank and then use a blow drier on it. Blow driers will produce a red hot filament inside that CAN ignite fumes of flammable substances.

 

Ya, I was kinda thinking the same thing. Gas and electrical devices just don't mix too well.

 

Dry gas is a fuel additive to make water evaporate, some alcohol/methanol base. Dry gas to remove the bulk of the water. After emptying and allowing to evaporate, then the blow drier. I have no intention of going into orbit ...

 

Ah, that clears things up a bit.
I was getting ready to just drill a small hole in the end of my tank to drain it out completely, then plug it with a screw and sealer.