oil change question - where's all the oil?

Hey guys,

I have a possibly idiotic question in regards to oil changes. I had my '85 750 Maxim-X on the center stand last weekend for an oil change. The problem is that the oil wouldn't come out! What am I missing? Less than 1/2 a litre came out. I know the oil is almost full because I just checked it.

I warmed it up before I started, and I removed the filler cap as well.

I turned the engine over for 1/4 of a second and the oil starts firehosing out when the oil pump kicks in, so I know that the oil is inside. As soon as I killed the engine, the flow dried up and it just started dripping again.

How do I get all the oil out, short of starting the engine with the filter removed? - No, I don't plan to try that.

Corey

 

sounds silly, but these bikes have 2 oil drain plugs underneath the engine. one is right below the oil filter housing, the other is in the back on the left hand side.

 

I don't think the X's have the middle gear drain plug. I looked on mine and couldn't find it.

This same thing happened to me when I very first drained the oil after sitting for 5 years. My personal opinion (take it as that) is that there was some sort of blockage between oil galleries that would not allow the oil to flow from the pump suction to the crankshaft area (where the filter is, I think).

If you look in the manual, there is a diagram of seperate oil galleries. I didn't worry about it too much, because the old oil was REALLY bad. As soon as I got that crap out of there, I had no more problems.

If this is a bike that is regulary ridden, you might have big problems! If that is the case, you may not be getting good oil flow during driving! 8O

If a good oil change doesn't work, you might consider a flush. If that doesn't work, I would seriously consider splitting the case. Better than replacing an engine! However, after you change your oil, you probably are going to want to drain it again to see if the problem is still there. This is not something you want to wait 2,000 miles to see if it gets resolved!

 

I'm sorry, I just read my post, and I realize it was not clear:

What you are experiencing is NOT normal (mine doesn't do that anymore).
What you are experiencing is NOT good!

:cry:

Sorry.

 

Fill the hting with gasoline or some other light oil, maybe like canola or somehting that will be easy flow and can mix with the oil. Kerosene but not the red crap. Then start it and get it all nice and hot - Then drain ... should come gushing like a river ... prolly crap in there blocking it ... cannot see how it can be remotely good. Main hope is, its not deathly bad yet.
Cool.
Srinath.

 

Thanks Richard,

Actually I have done two recent oil changes. The first time around nothing came out, but I expected that because the oil indicator was bone dry when I bought the bike...

That new oil turned jet black right away so I was keen on replacing it again after 200 kms or so to clean it out. That's why I knew for sure the crank was full because I just changed the oil and I was watching the indicator over a period of days.

I don't think this bike has a middle drain plug either - I've checked the service manual and the underside of the bike... nothing that I can see.

I wasn't too worried before, but I am now! Like I say, the oil obviously flows when the engine is running (you can see the oil indicator dip slightly when the engine is started, and the oil definitely flows out when it's running and the filter is off).

Corey

 

like srinath said, I would try adding some gasoline to your oil, and running it for a minute or so (it will run pretty rough) to see if you can dislidge any crud thats in there. then, drain it while its hot.

 

I would not use gasoline. First warm the engine, then get yourself a can of seafoam and add about half of it to the oil. then put it on the center stand, start the engine put it in gear and let it run a few minutes, running it in gear will mix it up good, then try to drain the oil.
If this works, I would fill with oil and repeat the process, to make sure you get all the crud out. Repeat until the oil comes out clean.

 

Hey guys,

I changed the oil again tonight.

Unfortunately Seafoam isn't sold in Canada. I spoke to someone at Canadian Tire who at least heard of it and referred me to their generic engine scrub stuff. Judging by the smell and the MSDS sheet for Seafoam (Pale Oil, and Naptha), this is probably very similar.

Anyway, I dumped it in and ran it in neutral for a couple of minutes and in first gear for a minute or so on the center stand. I took off the filter and... nada. About 1 liter came out this time, but the inidicator still showed oil in the crank.

Not wanting to leave this engine scrub crap in the crank, I played with fire and turned on the engine for 5 seconds while watching the indicator to drain as best as I dared - ~2 litres total. I fit 2 litres of new oil in and the indicator is sitting pretty.

The good news is that this is the first time in three oil changes that the oil has looked golden after the change (first two times it went jet black right away). The bad news is that I'm still not able to drain the oil without starting the engine.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks,

Corey

 

Corey, just a quick question, which I couldn't determine by reading your posts: are you undoing the oil drain plug to "drain the oil", as opposed to the oil filter housing? The oil filter lives inside the round, ribbed housing; the oil drain plug is on the bottom of the crankcase, just beneath the oil filter housing, facing the front of the engine and almost directly below the oil filter housing retaining bolt/bypass valve.

Also, make sure you remove the "add oil" screw (about the oil level sight glass) while draining the oil.

 

Is your drain plug a 2 piece drain? By this I mean some plugs have a smaller plug screwed into the drain plug, this is used for a temp probe.
If your taking out just the small plug the oil may not drain.
If that's the case try removing the larger plug.
If it is the larger plug that your removing, then try probing around inside the drain hole with a small screwdriver, someone may have dropped something inside like the paper from the oil bottle lid and may be obstucting the hole.
Running out of ideas.

 

Corey, I am not trying to be mean, but running the bike with low oil and an oil thinner in there is probably not a good idea. The reason being that the oil does not adhere well to moving components while it has the cleaner/thinner stuff in it.

While you probably did not do any damage by running it for so short a time, I just wanted to state that one for the record.

 

Well, if it is not going to come out, but oil is getting from the crankcase back to the clutch area, then maybe it is time to figure out what might be plugged.

Could you look at some diagrams to try to figure it out?

Maybe there is more than one drain from the crankcase to the clutch area, and just one of yours (a lower elevation) is plugged? That doesn't sound too bad.

Maybe there is a check valve that was stuck that is specifically for draining the oil for a change. That doesn't sound too bad either.

Both of these are hypotheses though. I will try to look at the oil diagrams and pictures in my manual tonight.

 

Seafoam is now sold in Canada... it wasn't until very recently. NAPA might have some.

 

It's official. I'm a tool.

You know when you're reading and your stomach sinks because you realize what a fool you've been?

Did I mention that I'm badass with computers?

chacas had it pegged. I mistook the diagram from the XJCD and thought that the oil drained from the oil filter housing.

I removed the drain plug and magically it works. The upside is that while I feel like a moron, the oil is so clear and golden you could probably use it to cook with.

Thanks all.

Corey

 

This is why I should never be listened to. I always assume the worst. i should learn more to look for the simple things.

One time, my mom and I went about for at least an hour trying to figure out why the computer wasn't working. Then we figured out it wasn't plugged in. DOH! :?

Glad that it worked out! I am sure that an extra oil change is something your bike appreciates anyway!

 

thats why we're here....

glad you got it figured out.

 

Just a note on flushing..

I definately wouldent use gasoline becuase it's a solvent. It will take away the oils ability to lubricate all together. I have a would suggest using diesel fuel on the other hand. It will think out the oil and dislodge sludge but is also a lubricant by nature. I wouldent run the engine to long with diesel in the oil either but it's certainly worlds better then gas.