Valve Job DONE. What do THESE Symptoms tell you.

OK So my new valve shim is IN, new gasket was glued and greased on the other side, and fresh 12 donuts all around. The gasket DID NOT stay in place, the 'hi-tack' was really, uh, 'NON-tack'.
So that in itself was real interesting.

Once on and cranked down, got fresh gas lines on and and the tank in place. Drained and flushed oil with a new filter and new O-rings on cover and bolt.
New rear drive fluid too.

Now, the first startup since the valve job.
When I tried doing the sync the first time, I did rick's trick of a soaked piece of tshirt (in marvel mystery oil) and stuff it in the YICS port.
Worked like a charm to block the ports. But stupidly I didn't PULL to get it out, I tried ramming it out. Now it is stuck in the middle, blocking the center two passages only.

So when I fired up, the two center cylinders were running nice and warm pipes. Outside cylinders not so much, ICE COLD.


SO:
1) I am going to home depot sometime to get something STRONG and THIN to ram that shirt out. That will definately do the trick.
2) Could this be causing the two OUTSIDE cylinders to be not running? Or is that just the sync I have not done yet?
3) The coils fire 1 and 3, and 2 and 4, respectively, correct? Like, one coil doesn't run 1 and 4?
4) I plan on shooting some starting fluid in there to see if those cylinders fire, that will help me figure out if its coils. But if I am correct in the coils do not fire 1-4, 2-3, then I don't need to do this.

I am getting there slowly, but, looks like once again another week without riding.

 

One coil (with the shorter plug wires) fires 2 & 3, the other coil fires #1 and #4.

 

Well that's bad news.

Because that's what it sounds like.

Can I use the coils off my SECA?

Not saying it's definately that... but 1 + 4 are cold.

 

Judging by this:

I think my SECA coils will work?
So if it IS that, I can try it?

What are the other things that could cause BOTH 1 and 4 to be cold? What are the odds BOTH the enrichment circuits in JUST those 2 are clogged, when they WERE running good, and got progressively worse?

 

OK so did a bit more playing around.

Seems to be getting very weak spark on those cylinders.
What can this be caused by?
Dead or dying coil? Dirty contacts or weak contacts?
If it gets spark at all, is the coil ok, just something else wrong?

 

Possibly a bad coil, you can always test the electrical resistance of the coils (primary and secondary sides) to see whether they are in spec or not. Or just swap out one of your other spare coils and hope they are good!

If it's NOT a bad coil, then it could be a bad pick-up unit down at the crank for those cylinders, or bad wiring associated with that coil, or just bad spark plugs in those two cylinders, or a (hopefully not) dead or dying TCI unit. Or carb problems, yes, might be that, too.

Until you start testing, you'll never know.

Start with the easiest things:

1) Replace the spark plugs in those cylinders with known good or new ones.


2) Open the fuel bowl drain screws on those carbs and make sure the bowls are full of fuel (if not, that's a problem.......!).


3) Still no go, then swap the two coils and see if the problem "follos" the suspect coil (in your case, now cylinders #2 & 3 would be cold, and #1 and #4 would be firing), or, swap in a known good coil (or, test the one that's in there).

For all models except XJ700's and XJ900RK:

Primary (input): 2.5 ohms +/- 10%
= 2.25 ohms - 2.75 ohms

Secondary (output): 11K ohms +/- 20%
= 8,800 ohms - 13,200 ohms


4) Still no go, test the resistance of the pick-up coils and make sure they are in spec.

Checking pick-up coils: the resistance across each pair of lead wires (at the TCI) should be as follows. NOTE: if both coils are out of specifications, suspect a pinched or shorted black ground wire, which is a shared ground for both of the pick-up coils on most models. It is very unlikely (although not impossible, especially in a case of improper jump-starting, etc.) that BOTH pick-up coils would expire at the same time!

120 ohms +/- 10% for all XJ650 Turbo models, XJ700 all models and XJ750-X models, XJ900RK, and XJ1100 models.

650 ohms +/- 20% for all XJ550 models, 1982-84 XJ650 Maxim, and all XJ750 models.


5) Still no go, then you have to diagnose between a bad TCI unit and the improbably "bad" # 1 and #4 carbs.

 

This may be a no brainer, but make sure you do not run resistor plugs along with the resistor caps you have. Check the caps too. Should be 5K (i think). Not sure on the seca.

 

I have never done the fuel bowl drain screw thing.
So, do I open it, and if it floods out gas, I am good?

I will have to wait till wednesday most likely to start testing some things.
I will have my friend swap the plugs from 2-3 and try that though.
But Put it this way, if I touch the frame and hold a plug wire (the outside of the boot) I get a gentle shock. I used to get a good kicker. Not fun, but easy to test the wires lol.

I do not know where the wire resistors are, OR the plugs. All I know is they are straight NGK BP7ES.

Thanks for the help guys, this is really irritating. I bought the bike running great, but with bad mileage. Found mixture screws WAY off, that fixed that. Ever since, it's had so many other issues.

 

dpawl,
Did I read that right? You are holding a plug wire in one hand, touching the frame with the other? Me thinks that is not a great idea...

 

CLEAR! Whump! Still flatlined Doc! Beeeeeeeeeep!

Get a cheap multimeter at WalMart or someplace. Easy to measure the primary and secondary resistance.

There is something fundamentally wrong with hoping against all hope that you are going to get the ever luvin crap shocked out of you because it means your ignition system is good!

 

dpawl, when you say "holding the plug wire" are you talking about REMOVING the plug wire from the top of the spark plug and holding it in your hand?

If so, and all you get is a gentle shock, then that is a problem, there's about 20+K volts thru there, and although it won't kill you, it's much, MUCH more than a "mild shock", unless.........you're getting a VERY weak spark through the system, or, you're the type who also enjoys a good leisurely waterboarding......


BUT, if you mean that you are getting a "mild shock" when you grab hold of the plug wire/boot WHILE THE PLUG WIRE IS STILL ATTACHED TO THE SPARK PLUG.........well, that means that you have a really bad voltage leak at that cap/plug wire interface! You SHOULD be able to grab the boot and not get shocked!

 

If you hold a DISCONNECTED plug wire and touch the frame it should make you let go real quick. NOT a good diagnostic procedure.

This sounds like a classic case of weak battery to me, along with possibly a cruddy connector or two, or possibly one of the coil connections got dislodged when you had the tank off/on. You didn't crash into the ignition pickups with the wrench when you were turning the crankshaft to do the valve adjustment did you?

Remember; these bikes can produce the interesting phenomenon of having enough battery to spin the motor vigorously but not have enough current left to fire the ignition. Wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't experienced it myself.

 

Let's put it this way, when it all started, I pulled a plug wire to see if it affected the motor. When it did not (this is about 4 weeks ago) I got worried.
It seems like the PO's mechanic tweaked the mixtures to make up for cyl 1-4 not running right as well as vac sync off.

Anyway,
since pulling the plug did not affect the motor, I realized that if I got something FIXED and then pulled the plug and it DID affect the motor, then I probably fixed my problem.
Well, a few of those times I was touching the key, or leaning on the handlebars or what not.
And no, the shock was not enough to make me freak. It was a light static feeling. Now I am not sticking my finger in the plug wire lol, but I do have a good grip on the boot. I really did not think the juice could get through the rubber. Is that a sign of a cracked boot?

Anyhow - I have to find my multimeter before anything, I have no idea where it is. I may just have to buy a new one.

Fitz, how would I know if I did something to the pickups? I am 99%sure I did not, but my buddy might have walked into it a bit.

I sure hope it's not my coils...

Just a note- I did not TOUCH the bike on purpose lol. It was a 'oh crap my arms on the handlebars' but it didn't hurt -which was a "whoops... oh, why the hell?" kind of moment.

 

If the boot was still attached to an installed plug, and you grabbed the boot but did not remove it, and you got shocked, then YES, that is a sign of a cracked boot or plug wire, as the electricity should flow ONLY down into the plug, across the spark plug gap, and into the cylinder head.

 

Nope, only when I take it off. The boot that is. lol.
I got a very nice 27 year old digital multimeter from my grandfather @ easter dinner today, so I will be using that on the coils.

 

OK so new news. I did not get to testing the coil etc yet - but I forgot to mention this and I think it is important.

When I had it running, full choke, BARELY running... (obviously two pipes were cold, so no wonder rough idle!)
Anyway - I got it warm enough to rev to ~1100 or so, it was tough but it went. All of a sudden it hit that 'breaking point' of engine warmth to rev higher, and the enrichment circuit apparently kicked in, because it flew up to ~4k.

Does this negate my coils being dead?
What do you guys take this to mean?

*Awaits the almighty XJ gods *

 

Amen


GET A VOLT METER! AND YES IM YELLING AT YOU!
P.S. It may ship from china, and have two decimal places, but i bet youve thrown away more than 3 bucks before. and after you use it till it breaks, you'll realize you need a fluke... like this one.

P.P.S. sorry, im the yell-at-people kind of drunk. nothing personal