Starter woes - or is it normal? Doesn't seem like it.

OK! So my starter works, engages right away, and turns over nice and fast, no grinding or anything.

But occasionally, it LETS GO after 2 cranks or so. And when it does, it gets in a habit of it for a few tries.

Is this something EASY to fix, or something so invasive I have to grind the flywheel or something?

I did clean up an ATV starter once, very similar looking design.

Any ideas?

 

Nobody know what I am talking about?

It's like it just LETS go, and doesn't catch well until it gets a few pops out of the muffler.

If the bike starts in the first two-three tries, I never even have the problem.

Sounds to me like the rod that pushes it OUT to the flywheel doesn't go far enough? Is this the style the XJs use? That's how my ATV starters work.

 

I think ours is hooked to a chain with a clutch connecting the starter motor to the engine, have a look at the haynes manual or yamaha online parts catalog

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/parts/home.aspx

 

Starter clutch - did you mention synthetic oil before? Any oil with friction modifiers is bad and many of us have had your issue with synthetic oil. An oil change resolves the issue.

 

I just switched to RotellaT 15w40, and it's doing it just as bad.

Will have to look into the clutch thing.

 

Hmm usually an oil change will resolve it. How much have you run her since switching?

 

either nobody read this yet or nobody has the heart to tell ya, that starter clutch is almost certainly a case splitter, you might do it with oil changes and seafoam rinses and if you do go to church and play the lottery
on the bright side splitting the cases ain't no big deal

 

By lets go do you mean that the starter stops turning or that the starter keeps spinning but the crank stops turning? Gotta find out because the first condition would be a solenoid issue. The second condition would be a starter clutch issue.

 

The starter CONTINUES to spin... but disengages from the motor. Motor goes over a few times, then stops and starter keeps going.

Sometimes it doesn't even grab and the starter just spins.


Funny thing is, when the motor was idling and starting well, the starter ONLY did this if I failed to get the motor started the first try.

 

Your starter clutch is the issue, gotta pull it apart and check the springs and rollers. Using synthetic oil will cause this problem too.

 

I know early 80,s virago's had the "starter curse" and one of the issues was ...cant remember the name of the part but it pushs the gear out to engage the flywheel...well it was weak and would not keep the gear engaged...some people bought a new starter others rebuilt theres.

S!'

 

Robert - the starter clutch is PART of the starter right? I don't have my XJCD @ work. So I don't have to pull the whole motor apart right?

 

see, nobody has the heart to tell ya

 

I'm sorry amigo, the clutch is not part of the starter. It is accessible through the alternator shaft hole but that is a real hair-raiser of a procedure and if you drop anything, you are pulling the motor, no if's and's or but's about it. Look the procedure up in the archives, it is a delicate process.
If you don't care to take that route, pull the motor and split the case.
There, now don't shoot the messenger.

 

Starter clutch is buried and you have to split the cases as Polock says.

However I still contend that it COULD be the synthetic oil. I had the exact same thing happen to me. Put in synthetic and the starter clutch slipped. I drained it - put in cheap oil and ran it for 10 minutes or so then changed it again with a good oil, changing the filter both times. Probably overkill but 3000 miles later and NO slippage.

That's why I asked how much you ran it since the change. I would do another oil change before splitting the case. At worst you spent a few bucks you might have avoided and have to split the cases. Best case it resolves your problem.

 

Starter Clutch:

Had the same problem myself. There is a way to get at it through the alternator housing but it is keyhole surgery to say the least. There is an extended explanation of how to get at the starter clutch through the alternator housing and it is much "easier" than splitting the cases.

Great care needs to be taken when the clutch is actually accessed because the parts that need changing are three little springs and three associated rollers - teensy weensy (well almost) and you don't want to let one go BOING!!! into the engine case. A piece of linen placed inside the hole and underneath the area that you're working on would be a good safety net.

Having said all that, I'd put up with it as long as possible. I reckon mine could have gone on for a lot longer - seemed to improve around every oil change.

Check out the aterter clutch on a diagram. It is on the end of the alternator SHAFT facing in to the engine and is connected to the starter motor by way of an idler gear.

Cheers,

K.

 

Bill I did have Castrol GTX in there for a few hundred miles.
I have only run it about 15 miles with the RotellaT.

Will let that work in, see how it goes.
Honestly, when it was running right - it caught first try. It was when I had problems with the enrichment circuit clogged that I had trouble starting it, and that's when it acts up.

Polock - thanks for being sensitive to my needs. haha.
Robert, why in gods name did you tell me that, you terrible person you!
haha , just kidding! Thanks guys. I really would rather not have to split the motor... O_O maybe in a few years!

Maybe I'll just pop start it... hah!

 

Well that sounds like it ruls out oil. When I had the problem and from what others have experienced the difference is immediate.

Sorry to hear that.

 

This kills me. :lol:
Sittin here giggling.
hehehehe

 

They also "gum up" you know. I wouldn't start panicking about the starter clutch until you've gotten the bike back on the road and put a few hundred miles on it. You may find your problem clearing up if it was gummy from sitting and just needed more than a few "cold starts" to free everything up.

 

Yeah Hound, it was pretty good lol.

Fitz, just when I think I knew all my 'options'...

I am hoping this is the case, because when I picked the bike up, it did nothing of the sort. I hope you are right!

Even if not, when the bike is running great, it doesn't do it unless I try to start it a few times without choke or something like that.

 

If it acts up after a few turns it may well be gummed up. You might get away with shooting some brake cleaner into the clutch housing or running some Marvel Mystery Oil or Seafoam in the crankcase before the next oil change. Here is to hoping that is all it takes. Good luck Dpawl!

 

Oooo... I think I might just throw some mystery oil in there, I don't think I topped the oil off fully after last change (bikes been really just sitting since then) so I will throw the mystery oil in to top it off.
Or is seafoam better for the oil? What do you suggest?

 

I'd run the Seafoam (more of a solvent than the Marvel), just be sure not to ride or rev it with this in the case. Bring it up to operating temp and be sure to run the starter a few times after that. That should get the solvent up into the clutch to start working it's magic. Then just drain and refill.

 

Hmmmm might just run the mystery oil for now then, once I get a few thousand miles on the fresh oil, I'll do the seamfoam trick right before I change it.

What about that stuff Valvoline has, the motor cleanout stuff?
You just add it to the oil, run it for about 10 minutes, then drain...
Would that be better than the seafoam? More de-gunking ability?

 

Never seen or heard of the Valvoline stuff. Wouldn't know a thing about it.
Your plan sounds good, Marvel followed at change time with Seafoam.

 

http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products ... product=29

Basically overfill the case using this and your old oil, run for 5-10 mins, drain and fill fresh.

 

dpawl, I can't speak for this particular product.
In the cage world you don't use oil flush on older motors, 90-100K miles.
It cleans all the carbon out of the little scratches in the cyclinder wall.
This product says in reduces blowby, I don't know how.

 

You don't need to flush the motor; and quite frankly I personally would not use MMO for anything period. (An argument I don't wish to have, look at the ingredients and make your own assessment.)

The best engine flush is HOT motor oil; like I said, put some miles on the bike; get it good and hot a FEW times, then change the oil again. Personally I won't dump any sort of "formulation" (I'm being kind) into my crankcase; just motor oil. I'm a big fan of too-frequent oil changes after taking over an old bike; if the new oil gets dirty right away, change it again. After a couple of oil changes, it will start staying clean a lot longer.

 

Not trying to get an arguement going, but what's in MMO you don't approve of?

 

Lemme see; benzine, naptha, mineral spirits are the primary ones... ok for cleaning the soles of your shoes but I'm not dumping it in MY crankcase.

A lot of people swear by it, which is why I didn't want to go there. Personally I have no use for it.

 

try another starter before you split the case

S!

 

Running good since the motor is running better now, haven't heard it in ~10 starts.

 

Imagine that. Clutch improving any?

 

The clutch was most definitely caused by his buddy Geoff "adjusting it". He told us the he messed with it, and i felt it too, it was certainly adjusted incorrectly. Almost all free play, it didn't pull on the clutch "arm" much. Just needs to be adjusted a little more now.

 

see my "dpawls on the road again'' post. Got some updates...