1. Some members were not receiving emails sent from XJbikes.com. For example: "Forgot your password?" function to reset your password would not send email to some members. I believe this has been resolved now. Please use "Contact Us" form (see page footer link) if you still have email issues. SnoSheriff

    Hello Guest. You have limited privileges and you can't "SEARCH" the forums. Please "Log In" or "Sign Up" for additional functionality. Click HERE to proceed.

Rant about New Bikes from Japan

Discussion in 'Hangout Lounge' started by phred, May 31, 2006.

  1. phred

    phred Member

    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    I just got a XJ-650 shaftie after 10 years of not riding and I am loving it.

    These are the previous bikes in my Life:

    175 Enduro '76
    KZ-440 '80
    KZ-550 '83
    EX-500 '86
    Ninja 600 '88
    FZX-750 '85

    At first I was gonna go new, but I was very disappointed with the current crop of bikes from Japan. I couldn't believe how impractical the newer bikes were for actual riding.

    Here is my rant.

    Entry level bikes now go directly from 250 to 650cc. What happened to 450 and 550 standards? There are a couple of sports bikes in this range, but newbies shouldn't be on faired bikes unless they have really wealthy parents. Air-Cooled 400/450 standard twins used to make great commuter bikes, 250's are just too weak for frequent highway use...650's are really weighty for shakey legs.

    Crotch rockets are now so expensive to repair and maintain that they aren't really usefull for anything but occasional hard riding. Tires, headlights, chains, plastics, valve shims are rediculously pricey. 14k redlines scare the crap out of me. OK if your putting 500 miles per year on it, but if you actually do a lot of riding it will cost you a fortune.

    Touring bikes have grown to Winnibego proportions, usefull for long Interstate rides only. Good luck parking on a hill, sand or navigating a parking lot. Also sound systems, GPS and intercoms kind of take away from the freedom of the open road thing.

    Cruisers are now more of a museum piece than a practical ride. I was unable to find a single cruiser with a tach! OK, V-twins DO let you know when to shift, but a tach gives you vital information about your idle speed, shift points etc. Displacement is way up, but performance is way down. I tested a Vulcan 1500 and it was no where near as fast as my KZ550. Handling is a lot better than I expected, but still not very sporty. Torque is great for trucks but I want something that screams a little.

    The bikes that made Japan the motorcycle king were the Air cooled DOHC fours. The CB, KZ, GS and XJ were fast, reliable, inexpensive and easy to work on (not the KZ, pull the cams to adjust the valves...WTF?). Instead of making these wonderful bikes, Japan just copied Harley's design.
     
  2. BlueMaxim

    BlueMaxim Active Member

    Messages:
    1,986
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Central Mississippi
    I agree. Although the current 650 v twin bikes are a good substitute for the old 350 to 550 class bikes. The bikes are heavier and therefore have a similar performance level. IF you want to see the bikes you want go to Yamaha's main site and visit their UK bike site. I think you will find the bike you want there. But like me, you can't aford to go to Europe to get it. While at it check the other manufacturers too. I want the Honda CBF 1000. Very Seca-ish with a water cooled engine and half fairing.
     
  3. woot

    woot Active Member

    Messages:
    1,244
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    <a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?q=44.777479+-
    I'm looking for a new(er) bike currently. I want something faired, that I can tour on, with a tiny bit more hp ~90 +/- 10hp.

    I thought the ninja 650 would be perfect for me as result. Very comfortable bike. Nearly the same hp as the maxim 650. In many ways it really is a good fit. I had some complaints about the bars and I was under impressed by the engine. In my humble opinion this would make an excellent beginner bike. The power is soft and linear and the ergos are good.

    I also test rode the newer ZZR600 (aka 2002 zx6r). I loved the engine. My arms were comfortable, but my legs (more specificly a hip problem) could no longer handle it.

    I've been thinking about a number of bikes. For a long time I've thought a VFR would work well. I'm not as confident in that as I once was. I'm now really interested in getting a test ride on a yzf600r. I'm also a big fan of the Triumph Sprint ST and the Honda ST. The FJR is way out of my price range and just a hair more touring than I was looking for - damn near a perfect match.

    I've also been tempted by the Honda 1100XX, the YZF1000r, the zzr1200 and the Hayabusa. All of these bikes are considered speed kings. I'm not really interested in the speed aspect, but the fact that all of these bikes were built around power and highway comfort. I just wish they'd put comfort in the 600 class.

    New bikes for beginners? Not many. The zzr250/ex250, the gs500/gs500f, the ex650r and to a lesser extent the sv650 (non-s model). There are a number of smaller cruisers but nothing there that really interests me in the slightest...

    I remake of the xj series would be really nice but unfortunately the big money in bikes right now is in the sport bike war.

    TAFN,
    woot.
     
  4. Joel07

    Joel07 Member

    Messages:
    484
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Durham, NC, USA
    Yup, I have a lot of friends that are new riders, and they all went right out and bought 600cc sport bikes. Funny thing is, they can't ride for more than an hour or two at a time before they're sore all over. :lol:

    That's the main reason when I went to look at new bikes, I was turned almost totally off. Not to mention the fact that I didn't WANT a brand new bike as my first one. The '80's Jap bikes just fit me better than anything else Comfortable riding position, and enough sport/power to have plenty of fun on. I still can't figure out why you need a bike that'll do 160 if you never take it to the track. 8O
     
  5. geebake

    geebake Member

    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Audubon, NJ
    I feel your pain. When I decided to start riding again, I started looking around and was generally disapointed with what I found. I have zero interest in a crotch rocket and the prices of new bikes are just insane.

    There are a couple of interesting bikes out there. I guess we all lean different ways. I like the look of the Suzuki SVs and really like the V-Strom, but I wouldn't say that either is ideal for a new rider. It does seem odd to me that no one seems to make anything like the standards of yesteryear.

    Greg
     
  6. Robert

    Robert Active Member

    Messages:
    7,479
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Ventura CA
    Anyone look at the BMW RT line?
     
  7. robista361

    robista361 Member

    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    winslow, Maine
    In my opinion guys, I think they have bikes out there to satisfy most every one. But what I would like to see more of here in the usa is more naked bikes. Also, bring back the four banger and v-4 muscle bikes, like the XJs, CBs, kzs, magnas,ZLs, maduras. I think if these bikes would of been properly updated and priced right, folks would still be buying them today. Instead, it seams as though the market is asking for these ungodly heavy cruisers, with 30s styling and ( for as much technology as we have today) very poor performance. Look at the V-max. Heres a bike that has been changed very minimaly since 85, yet still manages to kick ass today! Yes, it is getting dated to look at, but its styling lasted 21 years! The market researchers should be asking us guys who still drive their 20- 30 yr old bikes why we dont let them go? The answer to that is that they were the most honest motorcycles on the planet, and didnt pretend to be any thing else!
     
  8. Knick

    Knick Member

    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    austin,tx
    > 250 starter bikes are a must i agree..

    250's: I originally was looking at a Ninja 250.. Overall good reviews, people say the 100MPH top speed is legit, so highway travel is less of an issue. May peeps are replacing the sproket to lower the 70mph revs also..

    I stayed away from the other 250's due to lack of anything above 65'ish.. I dont want to be the slow poke on the highway and #$% up the flow of traffic.

    Ninja 250 to me doesnt force you to lay out across the tank as much either..

    I really wanted a N-250, or a 500-750. Not having owned a bike in a few years, along with the desire for 40+ MPG.

    I ended up finding my slightly over priced Xj750RJ.. :p

    It doesnt feel much heavier than the Ascott 500 i used to have, so not that big a deal.
     
  9. phred

    phred Member

    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    I owned an EX-500, very similar but a little faster.
    The problem with the Ninja 250 is the plastic.
    A new rider will almost certainly drop the bike at a light or while parking. Even small fairing cracks require large sums of money to repair. This makes it VERY expensive to learn on. Of course if the rider has experience with mx or something its a different story.
    The Blast would be a good learner bike if the motor didn't sieze every 15 minutes.
    I liked the ZReX and the VStrom but I am too vertically challenged to really use them. BMW makes some great bikes but they are very pricey. (for me anyway)
    The Vstar 650 is a pretty nice bike, I would say that would be a good bike for long term use. I just with it had better top end and didn't look like a cookie cutter cruiser.

    Just a rant.
     
  10. Foximus

    Foximus Member

    Messages:
    168
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Orlando
    unassociated with the JB weld are you padawan.
     
  11. woot

    woot Active Member

    Messages:
    1,244
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    <a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?q=44.777479+-
    phred - I've not seen any 250's plastics get wrecked... usually scuffed up.

    For a faired bike they're pretty indestructable - now the xj on the otherhand is solid metal so it is damn tough - esp with the 3 mount point protection bars.
     
  12. phred

    phred Member

    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Untrue, I humpty-dumpty'ed my Ex-500 quite a few times. We are talking about a learner bike, and most learners are pretty new to the whole "Creative Repair" process. They are more likely to run to the stealership for repairs.
     
  13. Robert

    Robert Active Member

    Messages:
    7,479
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Ventura CA
    Har har har, stealership! Good one phred! I expect that appearances would be the least of a beginning riders worries (at least it ought to be). The ABS parts are really rather rugged and don't fracture like they used to. Re-enforced JB repairs are an excellent cheap fix.
     
  14. thedude

    thedude Member

    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Columbus, ne U.S.
    on a funny note my cuz let me borrow his ninja 500 last yr. and yes, i was a beginniner...BUT i didnt drop the bike...the pavement was so hot that the damn mechanics stand sunk in the road and it tipped...came outside to it lying on the ground all forlorn :( ...bike was fine though...minor scratches....this yr. it was hit by a jealous ex-boyfriends van...:| no cracks in it! more minor scratches and a bent bar which wont let the throttle return to idle...its kinda like cruise control...i told him he should keep it that way ;)...tough damn bike iffen ya ask me

    laughing on the inside
    mike
     
  15. OU812didntU

    OU812didntU Member

    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    16
    totally agree with joel07 you cant beat a 80`s japanesse bike, they feel great, ride great and handle great. am not a sport bike type of guy to begin with allthough i dont mind the look of these bikes i would take a old maxim or magna or virago over any sport bike even if it was new. years ago i would spend hours and hours in bike shops lookin at motorcycles now i would be lucky spending 5 mins lookin at new bikes, i only go in there to pick a small part or two and then right back out again. the only thing that catches my eye is a v-max and then looses me again after i look at the price, i could buy 6 to 7 used bikes for that price, i`ve owned maybe 15 differant bikes in my life and everyone of them has been a older 80`s jap bike and the best of them to me has been the maxims, i guess thats why i own two now and lookin for a third. they have the power of a sport bike but the look and feel of a cruiser and are surprissingly easy to work on.
     
  16. SecaGirl

    SecaGirl Member

    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Arizona
    I've been looking over the newer bikes too. I want to have an idea of what's out there, if my XJ ever gets severe mech problems.

    It's not the sportbike wars that are killing the selection. It's the damn cruiser wars.

    HD recovered, and now 85% of the new bikes are trying to be hogs. The rest are made for 18 yr olds with daddy's visa, and want a race bike.

    I think if I ever replace my Seca, it'll be a toss up between a MotoGuzzi Breva, Buell CityX, or Kawi Z1000.
     
  17. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,843
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Massachusetts, Billerica
    Why don't you drop a line to Vera -- an Iron Butted, ultra-high milage riding woman from my XJ-Planet Yahoo Group and ask her about how she's liking her new Kaw.

    She sold her nifty Seca-ll after getting a demo ride on the Kaw. She just gor back from logging a thousand miles on it over the weekend.

    Email her at: ***edited by SnoSheriff *** ... or subscribe to XJ-Planet if you are so inclined at: ***edited by SnoSheriff *** We need a few good women, in there, for perspective!

    All the best ...
    Rick
     
  18. Joel07

    Joel07 Member

    Messages:
    484
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Durham, NC, USA
    Since this thread is back from the dead... :D

    New bikes I would consider:

    Yamaha: V-star, Warrior (way out of my price range though)

    Honda: 599, 919

    Kawasaki: Ninja 250, Ninja 500, Z750S, Z1000

    Suzuki: SV650, SV1000, possibly GS500

    The Honda 599/919's are currently my favorite new bikes... :D
     
  19. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,843
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Massachusetts, Billerica
    I don't want a new bike until I can walk into the YAMAHA Showroom and see a NEW -- Old Bike!

    Triumph brought-back the styling of its legendary "750 Bonnie" with all-new electric's, aluminum-aluminum-aluminum and new-age instrumentation on a brand-new bike, that looks like the old Classic from a distance. I had entertained the idea of selling my 900 and hopping on one until the dealer told me "Sold Out."

    Can you imagine walking in to a YAM House and seeing a "Fully-loaded", new, 750 Max -- with ALL the goodies already on it!

    I'd promise not to ever lay a wrench on it, until all the Dealership mandated warranty service visits were complete -- with the exception of oil changes. I'd change the oil every month for a 2007 Touring Max redeux!

    Or, maybe something like a de-bugged Venture Royale!
     
  20. xjchoppa

    xjchoppa Member

    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Oklahoma City, OK
    Triumph triumph triumph
     
  21. Jazzmoose

    Jazzmoose Member

    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Pineville, LA
    I must admit, they don't make the bike I'd really want, but I did go new with the Kawi EN500. It has enough power for me, and I'm not that interested in going 150mph anyway. Now, if they reduced the trail a bit instead of going for that silly cruiser look...

    The bike that made me smile the most in the showroom was the Yamaha VMax. I wonder why... :D
     
  22. Joel07

    Joel07 Member

    Messages:
    484
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Durham, NC, USA
    Oh yeah, keep forgetting the V-max. That's definetly one I'd like to have, but again, the price is just rediculous.

    But as far as getting an "old" new bike, that's about as close as you can get. The thing hasn't changed much from it's 1985 debut!!
     
  23. woot

    woot Active Member

    Messages:
    1,244
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    <a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?q=44.777479+-
    the v-max I found to be the hardest bitch of a bike to ride...

    It was absolutely unkind with it's low end torque. Picture trying to make a left hand turn at low speed into your neighbourhood. You roll on softly for the last half of the small 90 degree turn. WAMMO! Hit with the torque stick she stands up and the turn angle goes from 90 degree to 45 degree...

    Throttle control is an absolute must... to a point it took some of the joy out of it. At constant throttle she handled pretty well. She was fun to straight line. However, she was far harder to ride than the cbr and the cbr laughed in her face when it got into any real riding - even at nearly half the displacement.
     
  24. MiCarl

    MiCarl Active Member

    Messages:
    4,373
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Livonia, MI (Metro Detroit)
    Problem with new bikes is you'd have to wait 20 years to get the wrenching opportunities that come with the 80s bikes.
     
  25. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,843
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Massachusetts, Billerica
    I was over at the Yamaha Dealership picking-up a foot-rest rubber and ducked-in to say Hi to the guys in the shop.

    They were working on a new, Yamaha R6. Our bike is that bike's grandfather -- (Great grandfather??). The sophistication in the R6's design is truely remarkable.

    Fuel injected with an air-flow meter that infinitely adjusts the fuel-air mixture so often, that the process is monitored with a display that measures high-frequency.

    The rear-end has such a wide range of adjustments that the ride can be tweak-adjusted throughout the entire range of its travel; along with adjusting the dampening effect to any way you might like.

    Although the injection system and ignition system come with somewhat of a "Factory Preset", like ours ... there's no tools at all needed to make adjustments.

    It's a Plug-in Bike. Don't like the way it's running -- change it! It's as easy as selecting OR programming the way you want it set-up.

    Exquisite!

    Think anybody will ever introduce a nice, easy-to-install, fuel injection kit for the 750 Max??

    I'd love to have a bolt-on set-up like that ...

    Now, ... if I could only get those intake manifold Cap Screws out without snapping a few off!
     

Share This Page