Noob Tool Question (ratchets)

OK, here's a real embarassing question. Thankfully this is the anonymous Internet.

As someone who is new too all things mechanical. I.e new to a lot of tools as well - even my knowledge of ratchets is pretty basic.

81 650 Maxim.

I'm trying to remove the (edit) grab bar so I can install new shocks. However, I'm having a difficult time getting at one of the bolts - the one on the engine side of the shocks.

I'm assuming a need a ratchet for this, but none of mine fit. There is not much space around the bolt head. Do I just need to invest in a ratchet that has a thinner edge?

 

On mine the forward most bolt is an allen head through the grab bar from the outside. the nut on the back side is welded on I believe. I do not recall having to get a rachet or wrench on it. If your welds on the nut are broken off I'd try getting a screwdriver to wedge between the nut and piece it was formerly welded to.

 

The forward most one is definitely a bolt on my bike.

 

Is this what you are talking about?

If so, you need a 17mm socket on a ratchet.

 

The one I'm referring to is the Allen head on the left. However, mine is a bolt. Is the allen head stock? If so then a PO managed to squeeze a large bolt into mine.

 

I've posted a pic on mine with the grab rail off. The acron nut is for the shock. The bolt forward of that as in gitbox's pic is allen head.

With the grab bar removed you can see the nut that is welded to the back side circled in red.

If yours is not like this I suspect someone changed it.

 

Yeah, it's stock. Welcome to "PO tracks".

 

You can get Cap Screws (Allen Bolts) that fit in there right at most well-stocked Hardeare Stores.

If you get the size and shop on-line ... yopu can get replacements in Stainless Steel.

 

OK, so my original issue still stands. I have a large bolt without much space around it in that hole.

There must be a rachet that will grab it - or else the PO would not have been able to get it on.

Do ratchet heads come in different thicknesses? I mean a thinner edge? Obviously the hole must be a specific size.

 

Yes, you can get thin walled sockets. Hopefully, the PO didn't just pound it in with a hammer.

 

Not a rachet, a high quality 12 point socket is what you need.
12 points can be made thinner than cheap 6 points.
Most likely it's metric, but measure it anyway.

 

Yes, sorry, the socket is what I was referring to all along. See what I mean about being a noob. Off to the Home Despot I go.

 

Home Depot may be able to help you, but Sears will have a much larger selection of sockets.

 

One more thing to mention when looking for your socket: the PO may not have used a Metric bolt since a lot of them tend to use whatever they have laying around - meaning it might be SAE, in which case the frame threads may either chewed up by forcing the wrong thread, drilled out and re-tapped to SAE or just drilled out with a nut on the other side.

Ooooh I hate when they do that!

Good luck.

 

The Sears' by me don't stock much any more. Bet you can't find a thin walled socket in a Sears store.

Go to Harbor Freight and get a digital caliper(you should have one in your kit anyhow). Measure the head so you know what it is.

You may have to buy a socket and grind the walls down to get in there.

 

If you go this route go to a Pawn shop and find the socket you need to grind down. Cheaper then wasting a new one and just as good.

 

That Acorn Nut is Engineered to allow a Socket to fit upon it for loosening and tightening.

Use a stronger 6-Point Socket so the Socket won't slip or round-off like it might with a 12-Point Socket.

You might need Impact.
Sometimes those Fasteners get LockTite to keep it from coming loose.

 

Rick - it's not the acorn nut I have a problem with, it's the hex next to it (which is a bolt on my bike). This is what I'm having difiiculty getting at.

 

Ricks advice is sound. Only use a 6 point socket instead of a 12 pt. You stand a much better chance of rounding off the bolt head with a 12 pt. socket. Once you find a socket that will work you can get an impact driver that you hit with a good sized hammer for not a lot of money at Harbor Freight if you have one close by or you can usually find one at ACE or True Value hardware. I bought mine at a True Value for about $25. They are a lot cheaper at Harbor Freight. Use at least a 2 lb hammer, a 3 or 4 lb short handled sledge is even better. DO NOT HIT YOUR HAND! The impact drivers are a good investment as you will use it often as you work on your bike.

Most folks who work on bikes have one of these hand held impact drivers and most would be willing to remove the bolt for you if you asked them and offered to buy them a beer or two.

Good luck! It sucks to see you stuck on this one bolt. (pardon the pun)

One other thing you might try would be to use a long handled breaker bar. They are $6 or $7 dollars at Harbor Freight. A half inch socket is a lot stronger and the 1/2" breaker bars are longer than a 3/8" breaker so you will have a lot more leverage.

 

Here's what I 'm dealing with.

 

Gack. You are indeed the victim of yet another improper fastener substitution; one of my POs was a CHAMPEEN of it.

The best advice has already been given, I'll just reiterate: Figure out what size the head is (I'm guessing 12mm or 13mm based on the pic) and go get a cheap 6-point socket. Grind it down until it will fit in there; make sure he didn't put a nut on the back and crank it out. Replace with correct bolt.

Tip: If you don't have a bench grinder, almost any REAL auto repair place does and if you ask nice (or flip them a fiver) you should be able to get it ground down.

 

What are the odds that the correct fastener will go in properly after this one comes out? My bet is one slim-to-none.

 

Actually probably pretty good. He most likely threaded in a standard metric bolt like I said just based on your pic looks like a 12mm or 13mm head. Socket head metric bolts aren't "common" items, I'm betting it's metric just a dumb choice.

 

Forget the socket, get a box spanner, the walls are real thin, will drop right in there.

 

Aha. Awesome. That should work. (yes I had to google it).

 

Wiz! A box for a spinet? WTH? Speak 'merican man!

 

What was that, Klingon 8O

 

Beings he will need to replace the bolt anyway. Why can't the bolts head be drilled or broken off, slide of the grab bar, then use vise grips on what's left of the bolt to turn it out guys? Just a thought.

 

What is the bolt going into? Is it possible the nut that was factory welded on to the frame has "disappeared" and the PO has put a new bolt and nut on to fasten the grab rail?

Just a thought........have a look behind the grab rail and see if there is a nut that can be undone....

 

OH the simple beauty of the SECA.

Here is a pic of a “been there done that”, a 6 pt and a 12 pt socket.

If you haven’t got it off yet get some “PB Blaster”
http://www.shop.blasterplus.com/Penetra ... cstrfrnt03

ab

 

Yes, the original welded bolt is still there.

What do we call a "box spanner" here in Canada? The only thing I could find that looks like a Biox spanner (attached) is for removing spark plugs - and not the right size. A web search gives me all kinds of hits, but all UK based.

 

We are now into 3 pages of advise to remove ONE bolt ??

I agree, if you can't budge it, drill it without damaging the grab rail.
Then you can use a torch if needed, along with Vice-Grips.

 

It's winter here in Canada - nothing else to do.

 

This mob have an outlet in the states.

 

At least no-one has suggested to check the shims yet :lol:

Oh, I think I just did 8O

 

Touble maker. :twisted:

 

Hold on a minute. From all my roadtest reprints from back issues of The Motor Cycle and Motor Cycling I always got "spanner" to be nothing more than The King's English for "wrench."

I always thought what we called a box wrench was a "box spanner" across the pond. Not so?

 

I'm not sure if you have enough room in the recess, but try getting a grip on the bolthead with some needlenose Vise-Grips, and then use Channel Lock pliers to turn the Vise-Grips. Might not work, but you never know. PB Blaster beforehand would be highly beneficial as already mentioned.

 

When all else fails......Wikipedia....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrench

 

Soon you will enjoy success like these gentlemen have.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG1MnXkHhlM

 

Did you get a thin wall socket

SnapOn has arguably the best but Sears/Canadian Tire/KMSTools
and probably PrincessAuto are likely sources

http://www.tirerack.com/accessories/detail.jsp?ID=1

 

AHA! So it IS another case of "biscuits=crackers" while "crackers=insane."

And we all think we speak the same language...