please gimmie some help w/ synching

Ok, so i tried synching my carbs, well 1/1 of them, and i guess its a bit touchy, i kept adjusting and so on, I had to quit because i was afraid the engine was going to get too hot, any advice?

Also, I noticed alot of people use atf and whatnot, I'm using water, could that be a cause of my problems?

I found a fan to use to keep the engine kinda cool, i'm hoping I can get back at this tomorrow, I've been soo sick, probably puked 6 times yesterday....

 

Too much Christmas pud, Schoot'?
I wish you had got those gauges that were offered.
You need something more vicus than water, perhaps you can use puke. 8O

 

what gauges?

do you mean the ones that, i believe, TimetoRide offered?

and ill getsomething thicker than water then...

the synch tool i made is legit, works fine

 

schooter, what kind of tool did u make ? don't listen to wizard, the chunks will
plug your pipes but maybe thats a good thing

 

haha, I only puked chunks the firstt ime, thinking about food made me gag, all i drank was water


I made a 2 bottle synch tool out of baby bottles, drilling 2 holes in the top of each bottle, running a line from the two bottle all the way down to the bottom, and another line about 1 inch down i nthe bottle and 10 ft of extra line, I used hot glue to seal everything.

I used an ice maker kit for the hose, a little stretching and it fits over the nipples.

 

Hey, I've only been promoting the 4 tube Manometer,
Not gauges.
And baby bottles are for- - well- - babies !!

But there's a new device, not seen on XJ Bikes.

2 BB's in 2 "smile" shaped tubes. Coarse adjustment only.
Stay tuned . . .

 

don't put too much water in the bottles, one should be able to go empty and still not suck water into the engine, that way if one gets empty , no big deal just keep adjusting
the water doesn't have to be even in the bottles, just so it's not going up or down
get yourself some hot tea and whiskey and get to it fella

 

X2 what polock said. I figured you would need something thicker than water (ATF plus it's red). I used bb and only put 2oz in each one...

skillet

 

ya, dont worry, i built it so it cant suck water down (if I'm going into engineering, I should at least be able to figure that out)

but polock... are you trying to say that the liquid levels dont have to be equal? as long as they move? because if i remember right, that's happened to me before... I was trying to get them equal....

 

Jesus H christmas trees, a engineering student !
the actual volume of liquid in each bottle matters not, be it ATF water or puke
just so it's not changing
back off the whiskey, you get tea with milk

 

someone explain this to him with big words that a engineering student would understand

 

bwaaahh! Polock, you slay me.

:lol:


Schooooooot. My offer still stands. I have two dial-style gauges that you can HAVE provided I can FIND them and YOU pay for shipping. I don't need them anymore because I have a quad set that works quite well.

That way you can spend more time syncing than playing with baby food jars (or tipping snowcows in Hancock, or whatever else you kids do for fun these days)

 

Schooter, if you don't take Stereo up on those, I might make him an offer.

 

Schooter - It's a siphon. Follows all the rules of a siphon.

If you think about it a siphon does the same thing as a tube connecting the bottoms of the containers. It equalizes the levels (when the ambient pressure on both containers is the same).

When the ambient pressures are unequal the levels in the reservoirs will differ.

So, with your sync gauge when the ambient pressures are equal (carbs synced) the levels will be equal.

There is no functional difference between the two bottle apparatus and a U-shaped piece of tube. What the bottles do is protect you from a grossly out of sync situation. If you have pressure way too low on one side all the fluid will end up in that bottle and the engine will draw air that bubbles up through the fluid rather than inhaling the fluid. Of course you're only protected if you use less fluid than it takes to fill one bottle.

A more viscous fluid will respond more slowly (damp pulsing) but could cause the gauge to lag your adjustment and you overshoot.

Since you'll have a relatively large volume of air in the bottles pulsing will be minimized by that. Go with a low viscosity fluid. Water with is ideal because it's cheap and you can just dump it out when done. Old guys like me would benefit from some food coloring but you youngsters should be able to see water.

Now, the density of the fluid determines the sensitivity of the instrument. Typical sync specifications are 0.5- 1.0 cm Hg. That's about 5-10 inches of water. So, if your water doesn't all go into one bottle you're in spec.

So, all your water flows into one bottle. What do you do? You dial the butterfly corresponding to the filled bottle open until it quits bubbling then go a bit more until the level in your connecting tube matches the level in the bottle. You're synced (very synced) other than capillary effects in the tube. You can re-balance your setup and fine tune it but you're really splitting hairs at this point.

You never did describe what problem you were having.

Syncing is pretty quick, you really shouldn't have an overheating problem. Especially this time of year.

For homework explain why the siphon tube performs exactly the same as a tube connecting the bottoms of the containers.

Extra credit - explain capillary effects and their cause.

 

In the time you spent making the device that didn't work, ...

You could have Vacuum Synced the Bike using "The One Gauge Method" ... Accurate. Efficient. No water bottles needed.

The Old School Method
Single Vacuum Gauge Synchronizing of Carburetors
by: Rick Massey
Special to XJBikes.com
All rights reserved.

First, you need one vacuum gauge. (There's none better than the one sold at Sears for $19.95) and your home-made YICS tool.

A couple of Electric Fans to keep the Old XJ from overheating while you do the tuning-up. Two. Aimed at the Engine. High speed for Max cooling!

You need some vacuum line. Get ten or twelve feet. You'll be making-up lines to run from each carb out to the side of the bike where you'll hook-up the Vacuum Gauge.

You need a few small, hollow, plastic-barrel vacuum line connections. (Those little things you use to plug one vacuum line into another.)

One medium-sized fuel filter; with ends that will fit the hose.

One red plastic spray tube ... like the one taped to a can of carb cleaner.

Four regular Golf Tees. (Just steal 'em from your dad's golf bag)

5-minute epoxy.

Masking tape and a "Sharpie"

OK kids ... Let's ROCK!

Prep:
Fabrication of the "Vacuum Restriction Valve." (Absolutely necessary)

Take the skinny red tube and run it through one of the hollow, plastic hose connectors.
Seal that hollow connector with epoxy; leaving a length of the red tube extended from each end.
(This fabricated little-metering device will be the all-important "Vacuum Pressure Restrictor" that will allow you to read the vacuum gauge without the extremely WILD fluctuations on the meter you'd get if you tried to get a vacuum reading without it.)

When the epoxy hardens; cut-off the extraneous ends of the red tube -- flush.

Using a short length of vac line ... attach the restrictor to one end of the medium-sized fuel filter.

(Now you have a restrictor attached to the fuel filter. You just made what you NEED to get the needle on the vacuum gauge "Quieted-down" enough to get an accurate reading without the meter being so wildly fluctuating as to be useless. You have Baffled-Restricted-Regulation and this softens the harsh, impossible-to-read fluctuation, the indicator would have, without it.)

Hook-up and Sync:

The rest is by the book.
YICS tool inserted.
Four Vacuum lines run from the Carb Intakes over to where it will be convenient for you to connect these four lines up to Vacuum Gauge ... each marked with a little tape label for one through four. Stick the golf tees in the ends of these lines ... and get ready to sync the carbs.

Attach your "Old School - Baffled Restrictor" to the vacuum line coming from Number - 3 with the red tubed restricted end plugged into the vac line coming off the engine.

Plug the Vacuum Gauge into the Fuel Filter end. You're officially restricted and baffled for testing ...

So, let's do it!

Run the bike and get the vacuum reading of Number 3 (Three) ... to check for good vacuum on three and to observe how the needle of the gauge is still going to MODERATELY "Vibrate" as it measures engine vacuum.

Sneak the rev's up to 14 > 16-hundred rpm's and the fluctuation will become rapid enough for you to read the vacuum that the hole is pulling.

Mark the gauge face with a short strip of masking tape and mark the tape with a check-mark. Don't let the tape strips block you from seeing the vacuum gauge needle during the sync.

Authors Note:
It's a good idea to practice pulling a golf tee out and covering the hose with your thumb. This will keep the engine from stumbling and possibly stalling.

Checks and adjustments:

Read the Vacuum being pulled by Number 2. Mark maximum vacuum drawn by 2 with line of tape.

Get your magic fingers ready to do the "Carb-Shuffle!"

Pull-out the baffle and block the vacuum with your thumb until you can insert the golf tee you have ready between your lips or behind your ear.

Measure the vacuum being drawn by Number 1. If the max vacuum being drawn by Number 1 is NOT the same as you have MARKED for Number 2 --ADJUST the SYNC SCREW on Number 1 ... until the Vacuum drawn by ONE is the SAME as the Vacuum drawn by TWO!

Two down ... two to go! But, here's where it gets tricky.

Plug-in to Number 4. Set the Vacuum drawn by Number 4 -- to -- the BASE Vacuum you measured for Number 3. (Actually check 3 again ... adjust 4 to match 3 -- because 3 is the Base Vacuum Port, has NO sync screw adjustment, and usually has the petcock vacuum hose connected to it.)

At this point you start TWEAKING. From here until the rack's in-sync ... it's all down hill!

The engine should be sounding pretty darn good; right about here. But, we need to finish it off!

Just hook-up to Number 2, now ... and bring the vacuum being drawn on Number 2 -- UP or DOWN to match the value of Number 3.

They'll be no need to adjust Number 1. Number 1 is connected to Number 2 and goes right along for the ride when you sync Number 2 to Number 3 ... and you ...

HEAR the results of synchronizing all four of your carbs with only one vacuum gauge.
Let what I have outlined, here, be your guide ... but, don't be afraid to get creative with where to have the golf tees ready to pop-in the lines!

When you wrap-it-up ... the One - through - Four ... Final Measurement should be all right on the same value -- right across the board.
Yes? DONE!
No? Tweak until you nail it!

 

ok after reading MiCarl's post.. I guess I was splitting hairs, I have about ~4 inches in each bottle, and at my best I had about a 1 inch difference in levels... I thought they had to be exactly the same level.


like I said, my device worked, I told my two friends moms to see who could suck harder, the pressure got so low the water boiled......

nah, just kidding, in our chem labs we did make a soln, I forget what it was, and made it boil at room temp by making a vacuum

so yep if MiCarl is right, I'm going to synch my carbs real quick, et the idle, and hope she runs right, then I can get on with the front brakes, my new tank... and we'll see about the paint

 

IF? :cry:

 

whoops, I phrased that wrong.

"if what I get from what MiCarl is saying is right"

there we go all better

sorry.

 

Schootmon, when in a hole stop digging.

 

unless i'm trying to get somewhere.....






nah, I better stop

 

i work in the hvac field and have access to very sensitive magnihelic vacuum guages one is -2"wc to +2"wc and another that goes -28" to +28"wc, approx. how much vacuum do you read when syncing these motors. i really don't want to go thru fabbing a guage when i have one that may work. i'll probably fab a restrictor to settle the readings dowm a bit. thnx NJrider

 

Morning Schooter.
Stay with your bottles. I made a similar set up and they work
better then a home-made gauge. ( sorry Rick...but I made the
"old school" system exactly to the letter..still had to add a small
vice grip to restrict air and never got as accurate a synq as with
the bottles).
At first I tried 10w30 thinking if the motor should pull it in it would
only foul the plugs..too heavy.
Then used water. What a diff, like a cat on fire.
Today I'm going to try it with marval mystery oil just because
I didn't like all the water vapor going from the bottles to the cyl.
As for the level between the bottles..since you can get them near
exact then why not? As long as we put this much effort into
these motors a little "anal perfection cant hurt :wink:

 

Doesn't sound like the right range. I get 6-7 at idle of Hg (wc is water column?)
Multiply by 13 = 78 - 91 inches of water, as if drawn from a bucket.
That's almost eight feet.

Someone once mused about using MAP sensors hooked to multi-meters.
The sensors would need to be checked against each other first.

 

TIME, what is the range on the guages you guys are using? i have or can get my hands on alot of different range guages and u-tubes (manoneters) everything from pascal units to inches of mercury or PSI... i thought 30" of vacuum was a pretty deep vacuum....we read in microns when evacuating an A/C system. i can get vacuum or pressure guages, just need to know the range...6-7"Hg at idle to ??? at higher RPM... thnx NJrider

 

yep 6-7 hg at idle or JUST off idle the rest doesn't matter because theres no way to change it

 

Last night as I crawled into bed I realized I did my calculations on the left (metric) foot. Those water levels I gave you should be CM, not inches.

 

I'll look at my Carbtune when I get home. 6-7HG at idle sounds about right; dunno what they go up to, never looked.

Once again, as with compression, the actual reading isn't as important as the comparative readings. Especially on a 4-stick manometer, you're busy matching them not reading the numbers per se.

 

wait... whats all this HG blabber?

I was going on thinking you were using mm of mercury AKA torr, but now I'm scratching my head...

 

Mind you don't get splinters.

 

put your hat back on
The mmHg and the torr differ from one another by less than 2 × 10−7 torr

 

Fabricating a Restrictor and using it with a Vacuum Gauge will lessen the wildly fluctuating movement of the the Indicator on the Vacuum Gauge that renders the Instrument too wild to present a correct reading.

Restricting the Vacuum will STILL cause the Instrument's Indicator to fluctuate, ... But the Indicator will not be so wild as not to allow you get an accurate reading where the Needle reaches the Vacuum pulled on the Gauge.

 

ok, HG=Hg

is it 760.2 mm hg = 760 torr=1 atm

i've pretty much purposely forgotten all I lerned in UChem, too many nightmares.

 

30 inches of Mercury = 33 feet of water = 14.7 PSI = 1 BAR
1 Torr = 1 MM Hg

I think I read about 15 when I revved it up, but as polock said you don't read it there. If you can get two accurate gauges that read from 4 inches to 12 inches HG of vacuum you would have something.

In the water (or oil) column manometers, only the pressure difference is seen, not the total vacuum. A 4 tube setup allows ANY screw to be adjusted in ANY order, rather than "following proceedure".

For example; I'm using a ColorTune. I fine-tune #3's Pilot Screw, causing it's water level to drop. I now need to reduce #3's throttle angle, but it is the "master". I need to increase the throttle angle of 1, 2, and 4. I adjust these without even shutting off the engine, switching tubes, watching baby bottles, ETC.- - it's just easier and quicker to watch 4 displays at the same time.

 

I know where there are two Water Towers the same size and volume.
They're over 33 feet tall.

You're going to have to bring the Bike to the Towers, though.
Unless you already have enough hose left over from making the other one you're using.

 

PLEASE....tell me more.