Can't I do without the solenoid?

I was thinking about completely bypassing the start button and maybe doing away with the stock starter button. what if I bypassed the solenoid and just put a button there in its place. Pressing the button would be the same as arcing the solenoid. I would send power to the starter and be able to discontinue the connection as soon as the motor kicks over. I am theorizing less problems due to bad solenoids, worn start buttons, Accidental kill switch engaging, etc. Or is there something I am missing?

 

Yes. The starter motor will pull lots of current turning the engine over. I am not sure exactly how much but would guess at 50 to 100 amps on load, cold engine etc. You would need a switch capable of this load. A solenoid is just a high current switch.

Also, I wouldn't want to bypass the safety circuits just in case I started the bike in gear and it shot forward into the wife's car!!!!

 

Well jetting into the wife's car is what I was really going for. Bad idea? LOL.
Seriously, though, I was thinking of keeping the clutch switch and installing a different, toggle style, kill switch. I used a start button from an old cabover semi tractor my dad and I used to run for the same purpose on a 400 cc go cart we built when I was a kid. I wonder if that would work. Or something of that nature.
By the way, Markie, is that your bike in the Avatar there? I am jealous. I had an fj 600 that was amazing. There is something about that 600 motor.

 

Sounds like that would be a clean setup, keep us posted please : )

 

WHY? Why reinvent the wheel? Run too much load through the wrong set of wires and you're going to burn things up; virtually ALL vehicles that have a starter use a solenoid or relay of some sort.

 

All those switches are on the low current side of the system which you would be eliminating.

Then there is the problem when you stall at a light having to reach under the seat and dig for the starter switch while cagers try to run you over because the light turned green........

 

Yes, it is! She was in worse condition than I realised when I bought her and has taken longer to sort out - thankyou previous owners! Not too much left to do but I have been lazy over the winter!

She is quick!

 

There are so many reasons not to do this, the start button is located so you can operate the twist grip at the same time, keeping both hands on the bars, also a direct switch from the battery can arc & weld together, imagine the starter wont turn off, smoke starts pouring out of the bike & you are running round on one leg, swatting the flames with a copy of the New York Times. Makes good TV, but ruins your day. :cry:

 

The Solenoid is the device that lets the Arcing of the Electric Current happen away from the Starter Brushes and Commutator.

You CAN eliminate the Solenoid.
If you do, ... the Starter Motor is doomed.

Ask yourself, ... ???

What do you want to have to replace?

An occasional Solenoid after the Contacts get old.
Or, ...
A Starter Motor after you burn-up a Commutator every other week or two.

 

You can use a 150A SPDT Relay in place of the OEM solenoid

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.as ... rm=KEYWORD

A fair bit cheaper if that's an issue.

 

Hey Chuckles if it's a lbs thing then check out some of the small cars. I think Ford still sells the Fiesta over there. It might have a remote sol. Ford likes remotes. Many cars and trucks (lorries?) they made had remotes or rather fender mount sols. and they are cheep.

 

You can get a Solenoid that will work on the Bike at a LawnTractor Supply Store.

$17.95 -- Universal Starting Motor Solenoid

 

ok ok... jeez... i'll keep the dang solenoid. (mumbles as he stomps away with hands shoved in pockets.) It was just an idea but would definitely go with the option of replacing solenoids and not starters. Hey Rick... did you go to college for this stuff?

 

I think Rick was just born a Genius. Remeber the movie Baby Geniuses? Yep. That guy

 

Glad I just read this. I was thinking of obsoleting my solenoid. Def. no now!

 

I've been using one from a lawn tractor for couple years now and it works just fine. ALot cheaper and looks to be better made than the stock solenoid. I got the idea when looking into replacing my original with one for a older Ford. I remembered they always used a separate solenoid mounted on the wheelwell on their trucks, but they are kinda big and would be a pain to find a place to hide it on the bike. That's when I discovered ones made for small engines at a local lawn equipment store. Worth a look!

 

The modern replacement ones Len carries are 110% better than the originals too, fit exactly (actually in less space) and plug right in without a lot of rewiring.

I think it's just the 30 years advancement in technology across the board. ANY new one is going to be a better component than the original.

Kinda like headlights...

 

Not to take away from Lens busines, I just thought getting one at a local lawn equipment store is faster and cheaper than ordering one and waiting for it.
When my starter switch goes kaput (never know) I'm thinking of replacing it with a simple push botton switch that activates a relay to the solenoid. I know it may sound complicated, but should work and no switch to wear out. The relay is easier to replace if it wears out.
I was looking into replacing the solenoid with a spring-loaded key switch ( like a car) to do away with the solenoid all together, but it would'nt be as convenient to start with no hand on the throttle when you engage the starter. Sometimes a guys gotta think things thru first before jumping right into it!

 

The solenoid IS a relay, virtually all cars use them, mostly they're now imbedded in the starter.

The original design is what it is because it's simple and straightforward.

 

I realize the solenoid is just a bigger/better relay. How many amps is the starter solenoid rated at? ...anybody?

 

Don't "Re-engineer" the Safety out of Starting a Motorcycle.

Converting the Bike to start using an Automotive-type Ignition Switch is a prime example of bypassing safety for whatever reason.

You want to be prepared for the Bike to Start when the Starter cranks-over the Engine.
A well-tuned Bike will Start immediately.

Not having you hands on the Handlebars prepared for the Bike to set forth in motion is a breach of the Safety Standard engineered into the Bike.

You can be hurt.
Others can be hurt.
There is no rationale which makes it a worthwhile modification.
It is one of those things which is just a plain bad idea.

 

I will also counsel against removing the solenoid for the reasons mentioned by Rick. While it is true you can get a switch that is rated for the current needed, you will need to run new heavy copper (reads: expensive) leads to where ever you are mounting the switch. Add to it that you probably don't want the switch too far away from your hand on the handle bars (need to start up in a hurry by chance? Big truck looming out of the distance and closing fast? NOT the time to be fumbling for a starter button in a less than instinctive location). Go with the flow, keep the system intact. I would not argue about improving it with better sealed parts but I would leave it intact as it was intended to be.

 

As advised against, my starter button is located on my battery box, rear left side of my bike along with my key/ignition. Any and all things resembling safety switches removed loooong ago. It's not given me any problems yet. I DO still have a solenoid in my system. I don't think it's any more difficult to locate and push than say, having to flip out a kicker and give a few kicks to get her running as a "Big truck looms in the distance, closing fast".

 

One well-placed golf-ball sized ROCK spun off an oncoming truck at 60mph (combined closing speed 120mph) could leave you with a shattered switch assembly and an interesting roadside situation. Seems awfully vulnerable hanging there...

The ignition switch on my Norton is on the frame under my left thigh facing forward (that's where they put it, NO idea why) and it's one of the bigger PIA's on the bike. Besides being the headlight switch (looks like you have some sort of interesting personal issue when you operate it while underway) it's a really GREAT spot in the pouring rain, the little rubber bootie it's in fills right up.

I always liked it being up on the steering head; on my Triumph 500 it was on the side of the left headlight ear (came that way too.) A bit of a reach, but on that bike, at least it wasn't the light switch.

(Pre-1974 motorcycle headlights weren't "always on.")

 

Ah yes, there's aleays the safety factor to those "beginners" that has to be in the fine print of course.
Just thinking outside the box sometimes send us right back to the starting gate. A simple question has been answered in several ways and that's what this forum is all about. Sometimes just leaving things as they are is the best solution. "If it works, don't mess with it"!