The new XJ CD

Can anyone tell me why, after all these years with my beloved Haines manual, I would want to by the XJ CD? What has it got that I'm missing? I've done everything that the bike needed in the resulting 15 years with just that one wonderful book. I bought the CD for my new VW Passat and hated it almost from day one ($120US wasted, ended up buying the book, cheaper at $100US). More trouble than they are worth says I! Comments? Pictures (I won't tell Yamaha if you won't). I've not enjoyed either of the CD's I've purchased and inevitably end up buying the book just to get the project rolling.

 

It's $10... maybe plus shipping. It has many of the manuals, lots of pictures, help documentation etc... it's good value.

It's put together by people who really love the bike - not done as a money maker. All the funding was going into the world relay I beleive. I'll leave it for the cd specialists, but from what I understand it is a very good product.

I've got a few shop manuals and I haven't brought the cd yet. I would if I was over my head, or planned on doing more major work in the future... mostly out of laziness honestly - I do think it would be good to have - certainly another resource.

woot.

 

Excellent question. I don't know what all you have done to your XJ so don't know where you may be lacking in knowledge. For some the manual is enough if all they want to do is an oil change. I have the CD because I want to keep away from the service shop. The XJCD has specific info on all models which may help in locating parts. You can look at the service manual for the 650 and see if the grab bars will fit your 750.
It also has D.V.'s carb cleaning section. It alone is worth the $10 price tag. The Haynes will not tell you how to set the mixture screws at all! It will not show you how to set the float levels. It won't show you how to colortune and carb sync. It won't even mention Seafoam! It was not written by bikers on a tight budget like most of us. It won't bring you into a community of bikers who will host a carb clinic and help you get your bike running smoothly while teaching you how to do it yourself. It doesn't have the microfiche listed for our bikes. It doesn't have the service manuals for all XJ's.
The XJCD is not the end all be all of info but it is very good and goes way beyond the Haynes manual. If the above stuff is not anything you would attempt to do then maybe you don't need it. The Haynes will do fine despite the few errors in it so long as it is coupled with a website like this.

 

Thanks for the opinion Woot. What are your sources for the contents on this CD? This forum or have you seen one at a friends house? I'm courious as to exactly how in depth it goes. I would love to be able to fabricate things for my beast off of the design details if it is this good. I've overhauled engines and transmissions with my Haines and never really had trouble but you are right about having additional resources, can't have too many of those! Thanks, Rob.

 

Frankly, the only reason I got it was because I didn't feel like paying $25 on eBay for the missing owner's manual when I could get the CD for $10. But it has a heck of a lot more to it than that. In fact, the CD probably has more info than I'll ever use. We'll see. But shoot, for $10, what the heck?

 

My sources - I have the official shop manual for all non-turbo xj's... the haynes 650-750 inline 4's... the manual that came with the bike, this forum... I used to be on the mailing list... the rest is a basic understanding of how things work - I just trial and error... if this isn't working then why not - systems analysis

Most of what you do on a bike is common sense, once you understand the general concepts you can look at the parts, see what they do, and think it through. This of course can lead to double thinking things - but generally I've been able to figure it out eventually.

I do think the CD with the walk throughs would be good for maintance... that I can see being really helpful. Sit down, read through the process, understand it, then get the hands dirty.

Seriously - I would buy the CD and eventually I will... just a matter of me being lazy.

I have seen the CD... Rich brought his copy over once and I flicked through it - version 2 I beleive. I didn't make a copy of it as it didn't seem like the right thing to do. Don't want karma to run over my maxim I liked it and said at the time I must get a copy... too bad we don't have a CD dealer on this forum.

Cheers,
woot.

 

Robert;
The xjcd was well worth the $10.00 to me , just for the article on painting your fuel tank with spray cans. I painted my own and can't tell the difference from a professional paint job. Saved myself hundreds just for that 1 topic. But like the others have said, besides having the owners and service manuals, it has alot of other interesting tips and tricks. However I would probably wait if your thinking of making a purchase, I here thier about to release a new 3 disk version that is supposed to include a parts x-reference. I'll be standing in line for that one when it comes out.
It's not a nesessity, but i'm glad I got it.

 

Speaking of the 3 c.d. release, does anybody know when that is coming out? I keep hearing rumors about it but it's been like 2 months since I heard about it, and still nothing. The reason I ask is because if it's coming out within the next 2-3 months then I'll wait for it, but if it's going to be 6 months to a year then I'll just get the current one. I always like to have the newest version of everything that's out there, i.e. software, etc. I guess i'm weird about things like that.

 

I hear ya. I'm sure I'll get the new version when it comes out. But I decided not to wait, and got the current version about a month ago. What the heck, guys; I know $10 isn't throw away money to everyone, but on the other hand, it's not life savings either...

 

Well I'll make a point of keeping everyone informed - I was one of the testers for the current release, and I'm once again one of the testers for the new CD set.

It's not in actual testing yet as we're putting some finishing touches on the new database that will be included in this release.

 

If you can get by with your Haynes manual, then good for you, have at it, you probably don't need the XJCD. I got by for 20 years with the Haynes manual and the Factory Service manual. Spend the US$10 or CDN$12 on a tank of gas and go enjoy a ride! There are a few errors in the Haynes manual (eg air jets and wiring diagrams), but then the odd error has been known to creep in on the XJCD from time to time too. The difference of course is that we try to correct our errors and have been known to send out replacement CDs if an error warrants it. That's why the current version is 3.0.2. Actually, there's even some errors in the original Yamaha data that we have caught and corrected (eg relay functions).

Ooops! Forgive me, I forgot to introduce myself properly. I'm Dwayne Verhey, chief cook and bottle washer on the XJCD project. I don't have the time to properly participate in every XJ forum but I do try to lurk some of the time. Usually Kliph alerts me when there's something of interest I should know about but tonight it was Snosherrif. He's privy to a lot of inside info about the upcoming version enhancements and it must've been killing him to keep silent during this thread ;-) He will be playing a key role in a future, related, enhancement.

So, to answer your questions:

Yes, v4 is about to go out to the beta testers. It is not a rumour. If you don't need the reference materials immediately then I suggest you wait a bit. (Except Woot. Telling Woot to wait is like telling Ghandi to settle things peaceably. Woot: order the XJCD. Now!) We are just hammering out some last minute things with the cross reference GUI, everything else is ready. If all goes well, it should be available around the end of March.

Yes, a major enhancement will be the all new parts cross-reference feature. Part discontinued by Yamaha? Want to know what other bikes have the same (or compatible) part? This will cross reference the part number with all bikes that used the same part or a superceded part that will fit so you can trot off down to the local bike wreckers with a printout of possible donors. Let's see your Haynes manual do THAT! <lol>

No, generally it's not detailed enough to machine parts from. It's not that the parts diagrams are not there -- but they are not dimensioned. There are a number of dimensioned drawings for custom work done by members, the infamous YICS tool, fuse blocks, bearings and so forth but not for the normal bits and pieces of the bikes themselves. If you are machining a replacement part you will have to measure the old one yourself.

As mentioned, v4 will be a 3 CD set. There are a number of new manuals added, mostly of Diversion / SecaII models, some specialty stuff on the Police versions and better coverage of the 750 Maxim variants. There have been some re-scans to improve quality of existing materials. A number of older "tips" have been updated and new ones added. Some new advertisements and articles of course. And some video footage of the engine tear-down at last year's SOCC. BTW: the price will still remain based on the approximate equivalent of US$10 -- shipped anywhere in the world. This is a not-for-profit enterprise and the coin is pumped back into the XJCD and the XJ community.

So, the ultimate answer to Robert's question? If you order the XJCD from me and you are not satisfied that it's worth the $10, simply return it to me and I will refund your money. Cheerfully and promptly. I have made this promise since v1.0 and I have yet to have anyone take me up on it. (I have had to replace a couple of sets that were damaged or lost in shipping.) I'm sure Dave or Brad would do the same. Or, if that is too great a risk for you, come on out to the NOCC this spring and take a test drive in person. If nothing else you'll score a free lunch and maybe even a doorprize ;-)

For more information about the XJCD, see http://members.tripod.com/dave_jack/id47.htm#xjcd

(sorry about the pop-ups, but Firefox kills them nicely)

tafn

dv

 

Thanks for the great reply Dwayne. Bout time we heard something from you :wink:

With the estimated release date of March, will that be through all locations. Eg my closest and easiest is the NZ distributer. Will he have it at the same time.

I have basically been holding off buying it waiting for the latest version.

For now I have gotten by with the info available on the internet which is fairly extensive but as some people lose interest links often don't work any more. Does the XJCD have a collection of any of these old references?

Any plans for an Australian distributor???? hint hint, If you need one I may be interested. :lol:

 

hey goon , ill buy one of u

 

Dwayne! Welcome aboard! I haven't seen you since I dropped off of the list ~2003/4?- so happy to see you again!

I'll order a set -- but you know me always working slowly at that type of thing. Who's running the show at Mica Peak? I'd like to offlist them and get onto the digest mode again...

Great to see you again, and thanks for swinging by the explain this new version to us!

Cheers,
David.

 

Dwayne, thanks for the great info!
I'll track you down once I hear v4 is ready!

 

Wow, you folks are just amazing! I'm interested in a set and will be in touch with you shortly Dwayne. Rich, Woot, thanks for the endorsment, I'll throw my hat in the ring now.

 

For those of you watching this thread, version 4 is now available. (well, the masters are on the way to the distributors anyway -- give the postal service a week or so...)

I posted more details in the "How to order the XJCD" thread: http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic ... .html#5114

tafn

dv

 

sounds awesome

 

Okay....so it's July, this CD yall are talking about, is it ready? I'm a newbie and I'm certain this would help me a great deal. I have had my bikes a few years and thus far, have friends help me, but I'd really like to learn to work on and modify my bikes myself.

Carla

 

The XJCD has been ready for a few months now but the shipping is taking a bit of time. I posted payment back in the start of June and have yet to see the disk. Wait times run the gamut, two weeks to months. Luck of the draw on this one but I know that they will eventually get to you. The link Dwayne posted is valid and the instructions are simple. Good luck to you!

 

I have to apologize to our US freinds over the delivery delays. Brad has always been a rather busy individual (he owns his own business and spends a lot of time on the road) and since he is now the proud papa to a brand new set of twins I think his time management requirements have escalated. To complicate matters on the poor guy, I did a minor upgrade to accomodate some unusual browser/OS combinations and he held off getting things out until the upgrade was ready, ensuring people got the latest version. I gather this left him with an impressive backlog to deal with.

As of June 14, he had the new version (4.0.4) and was working on getting all the orders out. However if you are in the US, urgently need a copy to service your bike and cannot contact Brad, I will look after you. Just bear in mind that there will likely still be a delay due to US customs. For some reason thick padded envelopes tend to pique their interest these days...

 

Dwayne, do you guys have any interest in getting a US leg of the business going? I'd be happy to help out. I have all the equipment needed to make copies and handle shipping. Not looking to make any money here. I assume you guys aren't getting rich off of this. Might simplify things for you.

Greg

 

An update:

I spoke to Brad by telephone this afternoon and he has 25 sets burned, packaged and addressed that he will be mailing out on Monday morning.

tafn

Dwayne

 

Actually, Brad IS our US leg. He has been a part of this from the beginning and while there are some delays at the moment, it's up to him to decide if he can handle it or not.

As for the money aspect, you are correct. The XJCD has always been a non-profit community resource by the XJ Owner's Group. While many of you here are not members, we make it available to anyone in the world for about the same price. (An XJ is an XJ, right?) The money raised is used for purchase of new materials, testing, distribution, etc. Sometimes there's a few bucks left over and we pump that back into XJ oriented causes like the shim pool. Sometimes it's in the hole, but I figure on getting that back next time 'round.

 

Does the XJ CD cover the wiring diagrams for the stock fairings that were available for the XJ's as well? I'm trying to figure out the fairing wiring of my factory installed Yamaha fairing on my 82 XJ650 Maxim. I'd like to figure it out soon because I really want to install a new stereo. Currently the wiring is hooked up to a funky connector that appears to be made to go into a cop radio.

 

Publishing Material owned by another without permission and without a license is a Felony.
The perpetrators are Criminals.
The Customers for the pirated goods are equally as guilty in the eyes of the Law as having Received Stolen Property.

All Official Yamaha Workshop Manuals and Owners Manuals are protected by a host of Copyrights.

All Haynes Manuals are protected by a host of Copyrights.

Copyright Infringement is a Crime.

 

Do we know they don't have permission? I don't have a copy and probably never will but in some cases the owner of such property will give permission to a compilation of resourses without fee especially if they are mostly out of print and if the producer of such a compilation receives no compensation in eccess of the cost to produce. The number of copies produced may also be limited under such agreements.

 

As of May 27th, 2009 ... at 4:00 PM EDT, confirmed by Yamaha Corporate Council, Jacki Edwards at Yamaha Motor's Corporation Headquarters.

"No one has permission to reproduce or sell material owned by Yamaha and protected by Copyright. No one."

Nobody has ever received permission.
All such material is Unauthorized.

 

I don't use it as much for manuals etc as I do for user-based documentation. Folks that have DONE whatever, and documented it.

As for the manuals, I get those online. haha.

 

What is it?
It's the YAMAHA Worldwide Corporate Logo.

It's NOT an entire Service Manual.
And, ... I don't SELL them.

If you are trying to equate the usage of the Logo with bootlegging Manuals for money; I think you know that it would be an "Apples and Oranges" discussion.
Before others side with you and goad me into some discussion of this matter, let's be absolutely sure about what is at issue.

Having a Movie Poster hanging on your office door is one thing.
Having a picnic table of DVD's of Movies for sale and a cash register set-up and plugged-in and engaging in Mail Order Sales, is quite another.

 

Having a movie poster is not an apples discussion. A movie poster is something you own personally and can do just about anything you want with it.

A copyright protection covers any use whatsoever that involves COPYING rights rather than ownership and usage rights; it assigns protection to the owners of such as to who can copy or write/re-write the information.

It makes no distinction as to whether the copy is in full or in part, nor whether it is used for commercial, promotional, or other purposes, Title 17 USC.

However, copyright law is a huge, almost all-encompassing body of law that IS subject to various interpretations and "grey areas". GM publishes, within a copyright-protected service manual, the torque specs and dis-assembly procedure (perhapos including photos or diagrams) for the cylinder head on a Monte Carlo SS 2004. Is it legal to republish such specs and procedures in some other format and venue? Is it copy-write infringement to use the words "Monte Carlo SS" or the word "Chevrolet" when discussing such procedure?

It seems as though the answer from General Counsel of Yamaha was a clear and definitive "NO" in regards to the "reproduce" issue, and by use of the word "or", also made it clear that the concept of "reproduce" is separate and distinct from the concept of "sell", both such rejoinders standing alone and independent of each other.

I would also point out that many people are in fact licensed by Yamaha to reproduce, for commercial purposes, many of their trademarked and/or copyright materials. They have a whole division within marketing/legal that is devoted to such activities.

I don't suppose that you are one of those licensees---please correct me if I'm wrong----so maybe some of us are confused as to why you are calling other kettles black, and with such vigor, hostility, and animus?

 

Let me break it right down so you and everyone else knows my opinion on the matter.

Yamaha Service Manuals, Yamaha Owners Manuals and the entire collection of Haynes Service and Repair Manuals are NOT Licensed to be reproduced and sold by anyone other than the Parent Company and Licensed Distributors and Dealers of the publications which are distributed and sold in PRINT.

 

Opinions are not considered part of any body of law, and are used only in matters of judicial discretion (judge's rulings), and of course are subject to over-turn on appeal.

For the record, I'm not condoning nor passing a judgement on the proprietors of the XJCD good or bad, positive or negative, legal or not........that's "above my pay grade" as a certain president likes to say.

It's more the manner and style in which you broach the subject that is of concern, although like beauty, that is always in the eye of the beholder.

And that's MY opinion on the matter.

 

Personally, I don't have a PC in the garage (I could, but refuse to) and can't run back into the house every time I need to look up a torque spec or an assembly diagram.

I prefer paper shop manuals; grubby fingerprints, coffee stains and all.

There very well may be a copyright infringement issue IF someone wanted to pursue it; however I doubt Yamaha cares anymore, honest. Haynes might.

 

Aaaahhhh... The voice of reason, at last!

Thanks for that, Len. And it came just in time to keep me from posting a few "bon mots" that may have had the effect of a brick on a beehive. :wink:

Btw, picked up a sweet lil' package at the post office this morning. Looks like good stuff!

 

We're diametrically opposed!

I'm calling the Spade a Spade!
I know.
You know.
I know you know.
You know I know.
I'm bitching about it because it stinks to high heaven that this Site allows someone to come-in and hawk infringed material protected by Copyright.
You want me to shut-up about it.
Because he's a friend of yours.

This ain't above my pay grade.

 

Ummm, as Sargeant Shultz would say, "I know nothing....!".

I'm not sure what you know, but I'm usually pretty straight about what I know, and I DON'T know what the heck you are talking about.

Who is "he"? If it is Dwayne Verhay, Brad Bowen, or "HAP", the three of which are, to the best of my research abilities, the "creators" of the XJCD, I can assure you that I know none of them, personally nor even as acquaintances, and neither I nor they (I would assume) would refer to each of us as friends by any stretch of the word (not that we're "enemies", it's just that I don't know these people from Adam, nor do they know me).

 

Oh, I bet they DO know you......many many of us on another xj owners list know you. And appreciate you, and am extremely grateful for the service and parts that you provide.

Dave

 

Len, what happened to the low profile, helpful, parts supplier we used to know and love ? you seem very confrontational lately. Chill man. 8)

 

I respect and trust Rick very much... been to his house, great guy.

But I do have to point this out :

He's one of what, two moderators left on this board that actually visit it?

Sno hasn't logged in, in what, nearly 8 months or more?

The forum needs a good clean overhaul, a much more organized FAQ section and a lot of this like ORGANIZATION could help ELIMINATE the need for something like the XJCD.

Personally, I would LOVE to help organize the FAQs, picture-ize them, organize them, clean them up, spell check, etc... and have offered my services to Robert, and Rick, to help.

Yet it all lies on SNO... and he's nowhere to be found.

As a lead moderator of the site, Rick, I say if you want to help clear up the XJCD copyright blah blah.... why not let some folks organize common community knowledge, techniques, and share it all in an organized fashion.

Instead of having 'noobs' come on here an have their first post 'my bike won't run, I think it's a goner, the PO never cleaned the carbs but I think they are ok'

We could direct them to a clean, organized, methodical fashion of FAQs.

I know Len is working on a website with all the information he has, and if that, compiled with every FAQ on here, constant updates... it could be the be-all-end-all of the XJCD. Granted, I love mine, but heck, I steal music online. Ohhh noooo... what a jerk I am!

Rick - I love you man, but chill with the copyright stuff. You can't right the world, and if you ever saw the XJCD you'd really see how much non-yamaha created material there really is. Heck, 1/2 of it is copies of ads for nostalgic purposes. I love looking at those photos!

Len - You alone help keep many many many XJs on the road, running reliably and with big futures to come. I definitely see where you come from on the ''let it lie'' concept, so you might as well just leave it as it is. XJCD isn't going anywhere, and I don't see Yamaha going after them for sure.

Wizard - For one damn day could you get off Len's back?
Did he have a thing for your girlfriend/boyfriend or something? Jesus.
I would much rather Len NOT keep a low profile, he is full of so much knowledge and even though you think he's BIASED, he clearly has things to backup basically EVERYTHING he says. Leave him alone for cryin' out loud. Get your bike out from 'down under' and get it 'down under' your butt. I bet you are a lot better of a person when you are riding, whatever you own. PS - most people put their bike stats, IN their signature section... Just thought you should know!

 

Staying out of the politics ;-)

But I completely agree with a redo. Setting up a Wiki or some other layout that takes all of the great tips, tricks, and information out of a discussion thread and puts it on its own dedicated page would be great!

I've started to do that for myself personally as I go through my bike. I set up a small wiki on my webpage that I am populating (just for myself so its all in one place) with the pics, howto's, tips, tricks, etc.. So that way I can just look at that i found instead of going through 30 bookmarks to see how to do something. That alone is saving me much time, energy, and redundant questions ;-)

I didn't mean to hijack the thread in replying to dpawls post - but is is a solid idea that would benefit everyone. Plus, unless the authors of the pics and howto's firmly object, there would be no copyright issues and the information would be better then the original manuals. How many times have both Rick and Len voiced that the manual is wrong, or something wasn't included, or whatever. Plus with all of the 'detailed' inspection and research that others are doing (like fitz with the gauge cluster breakout etc..) that far exceeds what a manual could ever hope for.

My 2 cents on the potential benefits of a re-do and/or side compilation of aggregate information contained here. ;-)

Back to your regularly scheduled debate ;-)

--josh

 

Doesn't even have to go that far Josh. A simple re-organization and going through of the FAQ section, as well as taking all the FINALS and placing them in the FAQ FINAL section where users shouldn't be able to post so it stays clean.

Adding pictures, detail, new-found tips, etc would be a lot of upkeep. But I am willing to do it. Now that I see SNO is around again, maybe I can ask him if I can finally help out

 

I'm curious as to how this blew up all of a sudden.

One person asked if the set carried wiring diagrams for a fairing (it doesn't, AFAIK), and Rick got his panties in a bunch. Completely out of left field, it was. The person didn't ask that the diagram be posted online; didn't ask anyone to copy the set and send it to him; didn't ask where it could be found online. None of that.

Yet Rick, despite his tolerance and tacit acceptance of the existence of the XJCD set for years now, has threatened its very existence (and possibly put this site in legal jeopardy) by contacting Yamaha's legal department. I'm thinking that if they didn't know about it before, they do now.

Rick, you didn't seem to have a problem with the XJCD before. Why now? Who peed in your Cheerios, fer crying out loud?