Where do you get washers for the needle & seat?

Well, since the bike has been running fairly good for over a week now, I decided it's time to try to fine-tune it for the pods and Mac 4-2 exhaust. With stock jetting, it had a hesitation at low (2-3k) rpms, and would fall on it's face at high RPM's. The only jets I had around were 124's, and I couldn't find any washers for the needle and seat, so I used an extra washer on each one from an extra set of carbs I have. Now, I haven't done any plug checking yet (guessing it'll be way too rich), but I got rid of the low RPM hesitation, and now have a bad sputter from 5k-7k.

Anyway, that's not really the point of this thread since I haven't done a plug check yet, the point is, where do you guys buy the washers for under the needle & seat? I had read that a #4 washer will work good, but the only #4 washer I found was tiny, and wouldn't have worked anywhere. The washers that I have in there now are .040" thick, where I had read that you should go in increments of .020" if possible. Any help is appreciated...

 

A well stocked junk box! However, you probably don't need washers under the needle, just larger pilot and main jets. I actually had to LOWER the needle because it was too rich in the midrange after I tuned the low and high ends. That would explain your bad sputter from 5k-7k.

 

Thanks, that's kind of what I was thinking. So what exactly does the pilot jet control? Low-mid RPM mixtures and idle circuit?

 

Pilot jet controls mixture just past idle, when the butterfly valves are starting to open at slow speeds. It overlaps the mid range some and interacts with the tapered needle settings at slow speeds also. It provides fuel for the idle mixture circuit and will change the adjustment there but since it's adjustable that is not usually a problem unless the jet is so large or small the screw adjustment can't compensate for it. When changing jet sizes you don't want to go up or down more than one jet size at a time in most cases before running the engine to see what the result was due to all the interaction that can occur and the fact that your engine won't run if the mixure is too rich or lean. Since adjustments are only possible at 3 engine speeds, slow, mid and WOT due to the limitations of carbs, you may have to compromise and settle for being slightly too lean at some RPMs but slightly too rich at other RPMs.

 

Plug chops willl really tell the story but another way is to accelerate and upon getting the sputter slightly roll off the throttle. Just a little at a time and see if it starts to run better. If so then it's rich.

 

opps! went to fast for myself. Meant to say that if it runs better then it is lean and not rich. This would mean your idea of raising the jets would help. If it tries to run better when you first crack the throttle and then sputters that is indicative of a rich mixture. Opening the throttle first introduces air into the mix. So a rush of air to a waiting glut of fuel will start running well then bog down after the air pulls more fuel into the mix and richens it too much. While reducing the throttle will reduce the amount of air and richen the mix out so it runs better if it was set lean.

 

Wow, good advice as usual guys!! Thanks! I need to go ahead and order a bunch of jets, I'm just trying to decide if I should do that or just bite the bullet and order a Dynojet kit. At $3 a pop, it won't take long to really add up, and from what I read, the Dynojet kit will give me a bit more adjustability. Any thoughts???

 

Dynojet kits are a fraud in my opinion since the chances of having the exact size jets you need are pretty small. You could get lucky and find one that works but the chances are about as good as winning the lottery. It's best to determine what size you need and just buy the correct ones.

 

Alrighty then!! Time to hit up CRC2 for a whole buncha jets!!!

It'll be good anyway to get a decent jet supply up, since I'll probably have both XJ's running before too long...

 

Actually you just need one set. If you need to go larger just drill them out to the next size. Only go one size at a time until you get to the correct mixture then stop because going back to a smaller size is harder.

 

LOL at that!!! 10-4, I'll try to find a Jeweler's drill set today. Thanks again for all the help Steve!

 

if you do drill and go too big all is not lost
just get some rosin soldering flux and some 60/40 electronic solder
put a very small chunk of solder in the cone of the jet and a little dab of flux ontop of it
gently heat the jet till the solder just melts then redrill
if you use too much solder and it fills up the hole and gets on the threads
then all is lost
remeber the hole will always be bigger than the drill that drilled it
good luck

 

Thanks again!! I'm going to try and find some drill bits today. Tried Home Depot last week to no avail, I guess I'll try the local hobby shop today. If anyone has any more suggestions, my ears (or should that be eyes) are open!

 

Harbor Freight and many hardware stores have minature drills besides hobby shops. You need a numbered set that goes up to #60 for main jets and a set from #61 to 80 for pilot jets.

 

i used very tiny lock washers under my needles (crushed flat of coarse). My scoot is the larger 1100 version XJ but same princeable. Truth be told ,after i went to pod type filters and re-jetted washer was BEST single mod i made. Even the bike shop people are amazed at the quick throttle responce bike has. Just my two paso's

 

Thanks man! Good to see ya back around here BTW, figured you had disappeared for good. :lol:

After riding it some this past weekend, I found that the bike runs MUCH better at 7/8 throttle or so, so that tells me that it's still to lean. I drilled the mains out with a #57 drill, so I guess I'll go to the #58 and see where we're at. It's definetly getting better though, as long as I keep going in the right direction, I guess we're alright... 8)

 

did you check plugs? when i was messing with jetting i went all the way to a 155.0 wow,ya would not go over 45 mph. since am currently running 137.5 mains still a very little rich. i will be going to a 135 hope to fix that this winter.

 

Never actually did check the plugs at WOT high-RPM. Did at the lower-range sputter, and it seems to be rich (probably needs a washer under the needle and seat). Tried the 58g drill today, seems to be about the same. I really should colortune the mixture plugs, but I don't have a colortune plug. I'm still having a lot of trouble getting a nice smooth idle out of it. Guessing they might need a sync too, I bench sync'd them with the paperclip trick, seemed to help, but I guess they still really need a good colortune and sync job.

Arrggg, so many things to spend money on, so little money to spend. :lol:

 

What is the Paper clip trick for bench synching carbs? I need to jet and synch before next year and only have a basic understanding of what is needed. I have read about it here and have that much understanding.

 

if you were to put a washer under the needle that would be like lowering the clip on a needle with multiple slots
needle point to stop gets shorter
that gets you a richer mixture

 

hey joel. carb syncs can be bought for around 30-50 bucks jcw and others carry them.