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Plug wire changeout

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by snowwy66, May 11, 2010.

  1. snowwy66

    snowwy66 Member

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    81 maxim 650

    apparently the plug wires are molded into the coil. any ideas on how to change the wires out.

    #4 plug is missing some beats. i've got new plugs. even swapped around. #1 and #4 run off the same coil. #1 sparks consistantly, so i've either got a bad wire to #4 or the connection inside the coil to #4.
     
  2. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    With a Dremel Tool ... you can "Grind-away" on the Coil Case until the Wire or the Cavity of the missing wire is exposed.

    Once you remove enough material ... the Spark Plug Wire is able to be pulled-out.
    Whenn the wire is removed you will see what looks like the "End of a Finishing Nail" protruding from the Coil.
    That's where you need to connect any color New Wire you slide in and have the Point of the Nail pierce the Core of the Wire.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  3. snowwy66

    snowwy66 Member

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    well, crap. i was thinking of a dremel tool but i was hoping the end of the wire would be on the outside. i really didn't want to grind up the casing. i was planning on doing all 4 wires.

    there is a splicer kit for $8. where i can splice the new wire onto the old wire. but the problem with that is the problem COULD still be in the existing old wire.
     
  4. snowwy66

    snowwy66 Member

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  5. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    Cut your Old Coils.
    Grab a couple of Plug Wires out of a BMW or Audi at a Junk Yard.

    Slip them fine Stainless Steel Cored wires into the Coil you opened-up for the new wires.

    Get the $3.98 5-Minute Epoxy (Black) , ... and mix you up enough to fill-up the Grinded-out space and cover the New wire.

    Use Masking Tape to create a little form around the space that needs filling-in, ... and just keep the 5-Minute filler coming until you have what looks like a Brand New Coil.
     
  6. snowwy66

    snowwy66 Member

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    LOL rickomatic. i guess that's better then having a peace of crap looking coil. LOL. even if the gas tank covers it up anyways.

    i'm starting to toy with the idea of cutting a slit and seeing if i can't squirt some wd40 and pry the wire out with a pick.

    i'm also wondering about the possible dilemma that the problem isn't the wire but the actual connector itself.

    call me picky. but being a retired mechanic. i've always had pride and didn't stand for shoddy looking work. but options are limited and so is money. i guess something is better then nothing.
     
  7. wizard

    wizard Active Member

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    You could use the double ended screw method, cut the wire off flush with the coil & use the chuck of a drill to screw them in.
     
  8. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    Getting the Old Wire OUT is a Battle.
    The Coil is Molded around the wire.

    Getting a NEW Wire ... IN takes some Twisting, turning and pulling with Needle Nosed Pliers.

    Then, ... you have to Line-Up the New wire with the Point for Electrical Contact.

    The Black Epoxy can be Sanded-down to regain the Original appearance.
    It's definitely water tight.
     
  9. snowwy66

    snowwy66 Member

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    ok folks. i finally found a manual to download. so now i've got all the specs.

    PLUG CAPS: 1 and 4 should have 5k ohms.
    1 has 7.5k and 4 has 8.5k

    2 and 3 should have 10k ohms.
    2 has 185k and 3 has 5k.

    that's no joke folks. i had to flip the switch on meter up a notch to get a reading for cap 2.

    haven't tested the coils yet. gonna run to junk yard before closing and take some caps from a bike they have.
     
  10. chacal

    chacal Moderator Moderator Supporting Vendor Premium Member

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    I believe all 4 caps on the 650's should have 5K resistance.........

    Your #3 cap is the only one within spec!
     
  11. pauluminous

    pauluminous Member

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    Simple does it! I wouldn't cut the wire flush though, leave a bit a the old wire sticking out of the coil and use some heat shrink.
     
  12. snowwy66

    snowwy66 Member

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    specs call for 10k on the inners. i beleive it's because the inner wires are shorter. anyways. all new caps and problem still exists. gonna test the coils next. i'm thinking the high resistance in the one cap made the coil overworked and probably burned up the wire inside. might have to be using that dremel tool. already picked up 4 1ft sections of copper core wire. $.99 a foot.
     
  13. chacal

    chacal Moderator Moderator Supporting Vendor Premium Member

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    Snowwy.......where are you finding these specs that show 10K on the inner caps?
     
  14. wizard

    wizard Active Member

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    Len, my book says 5k 1+4 & 10k 2+3, for US models.
     
  15. chacal

    chacal Moderator Moderator Supporting Vendor Premium Member

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    Well, it sure does, but......the original plug caps that you currently get from TD (the "tall" #2 and #3 caps, marked TD-133) are 5K ohms, and every original that I've ever come across that isn't totally shot out (such as the 185K readings that snowy observed) are also in the 5K - 6K range. Given that it's highly unusual for these resistors to decrease their value as they age, I'm thinking that the center caps were perhaps also supposed to be 5K......?
     
  16. snowwy66

    snowwy66 Member

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    the inner wires are shorter. therefore less resistance then the outter wires which are longer. thus, the higher resistance for the middle plug caps. to make a level range on all 4's.

    the original caps only send denso, or something to that effect. the outter caps had nothing. so they must be replacements at some point and time. i have ngk caps on now.

    tomorrow i'll test the ignition coils. if those are bad then i guess some chopping is in order to replace the wires. and hopefully problem solved. or it be boneyard replacement coils.
     
  17. chacal

    chacal Moderator Moderator Supporting Vendor Premium Member

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    Actually, the plug "wires" (the inner core) on original coils is stranded stainless steel (!), zero resistance wire. The difference in length of the the 1/4 and 2/3 coil plug wires is minimal anyway.

    The original caps may be marked only Denso or the full company name, Takio Denso (hence the "TD-133" or "TD-134", etc. markings on the caps). All original caps, whether they have the full company name or just Denso on them, should have the cap "part number" cast into either the round head or along the shaft.........the "TD-xxx" numbers. There are other caps which are un-marked, but which look almost identical to the TD caps, which we've always assumed are some type of (unknown mfg.) aftermarket caps from way-back-when.

    The parts books specify an alternative set of plug caps to be used with these bikes, with the cryptic note that they are used "with noise suppression" (that's all it says about them). I haven't been able to find any tech service bulletins or any other info about those style caps, nor have we ever seen one (at least, not that we know of). Those style caps may very well be 10K caps, as "noise suppression" would lead one to believe in a higher resistance level.
     
  18. snowwy66

    snowwy66 Member

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    for some reason i had a premonition to check for vacuum leaks. there's new boots and gaskets but i checked anyways. and EVERY cylinder almost died with enough carb cleaner squirted on each intake boot. which wasn't much of a squirt at all.

    have to pull out the propane bottle and see what that does for vacuum leak test. new intake gaskets might be in order.

    wonder how much more shit i'm going to find wrong before i get this thing running like a champ. glad it wasn't MY money spent at the repair shop cuz there knowledge and abilities is PISS POOR at best. between the new parts and labor. PO spent a lot of money for a very piss poor running bike.

    on another note. just tested the coils. can't get a reading between the power cable and ground. but between the two plugs wires. i get 22.5k on both coils. spec calls for 11.5k. since the coils measure the same. i'm gonna assume coils are fine. and spec in book is wrong.
     
  19. snowwy66

    snowwy66 Member

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    today i replaced the intake gaskets. even put some sealer around the vacuum ports just incase there might be a leak there. even though the boots are brand new. reset the floats to 16mm. and synced the carbs. guess i'm stuck with a crappy running bike. everything i can think of checks out just fine so i have no idea where to look next.
     
  20. ewemule

    ewemule New Member

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    Great !!

    I reached down to check if my plug cap was indeed tight and got a little tingle. Figured I'd put some new wires and caps on from the coil. Now I have the new parts and find out that the install is anything but straight forward. D'oooh ! Maybe some electrical tape on the plug cap for now.
    Marty :roll:
     
  21. Polock

    Polock Well-Known Member

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    look at the resistance of wire here, the wire length is not a factor
    really i don't think the caps are either since i've been running copper wire and solid boots with the double ended screw wire replacement method for three years with no problems
     
  22. ewemule

    ewemule New Member

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    It sure would be nice if the original setup had screw style on both ends of the leads.
    Marty
     
  23. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    Performing the "Coil Surgery" is NOT that difficult.
    If you have an assistant Vacuum the flying plastic as its removed; It's not too messy, ... either.

    Cut the Coil Body open:

    [​IMG]

    DREMEL Tool
    Flex Wand extension.
    Carbide Cutting Bit.
    Starting 1.5cm behind the Wire outlet ... grind away 4.0cm of the Coil Case exposing the Spark Plug Wire.
    Free the Wire with a cut on each side.
    Pull the Wire out. Twisting the Wire free it from the Coil Body.

    Twist a New Wire in.
    Push New wire's center on to Coil's pointed connection.
    Using Masking Tape ... construct a "Form" to hold-in Black Epoxy resin.
    Flood the form with a mixed batch of epoxy.
    Grind, sand, mold and form repaired area to match contour of Old Coil.
     
  24. ewemule

    ewemule New Member

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    I've always enjoyed using my dremel and lately don't have much oportunity. Here's my big chance ! Better get some black epoxy first.
    Marty
     
  25. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    Have an assistant hold a Vacuum Cleaner Hose to the work as you expose the Spark Plug wire.

    Make you cuts slow and precise.
    If you try to "Make time" with a heavy handed cut ... the plastic melts and fowls the bit.

    If you are going to take the trouble to do this job, ... use some Performance Rated replacement Wires.

    You can find Bosch Stainless Core -- Multi-Layered Wires at the Auto Junk Yards under the hoods of German Makes.
     

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