chance to get an h1

Want some opinions I need to decide before Christmas. I Have the chance to pick up an h1 for 600 bucks. Do you think its worth it. Decent shape not running

 

Dude.

Punctuation improving, you might want to actually space between sentences and try some CAPS occasionally. Now on to your question--

I think the Schootums had to let the 550 go for like $1080 (kid didn't set a reserve; I sure would have) so he cleared a tidy $80. Unless the deal unraveled.

Re: the H1: BUY IT. By all means! Then clean it thoroughly, fix it, but don't over-do it. If the rearsets aren't factory, pull them and get the correct original parts while you still can. Do no harm. Clean, fix, polish; avoid repainting everywhere possible, reverse any "mods" and then you'll have the "investment" you're talking about.

If the paint and body are original, whatever you do don't repaint it if they're in even halfway decent shape.

The more you can NOT "disturb" the more it will eventually be worth. Powder-coat the frame and the "vintage investment value" drops considerably.

Or "restify" the bejabbers out of it to your own taste and ride it. But remember any unnecessary repainting or mods will drop its eventual resale value rather than raise it.

IMHO.

 

ahem.

 

Should be a bit easier to read now

 

H1???? What is it?

 

3 cyl 2 stroke Kawasaki 500 cc mid 70s screemer

 

Now someone here is talking a language I understand a little.....

What year H1? Does it come with a title? For 600, they usually are a rolling chassis with no title, but might be made to run....sometimes. My guess is that if you haven't bought it by now, it's gone but you should have bought it. Yes, they sell that fast unless there is some kind of "problem". I have a 70 and a 72. I sold another peacock grey '70 over the summer to a guy in Italy. They are a blast to ride but be very careful as they conveniently came from the factory with a handy but hidden hinge in the middle of the frame somewhere. No one has actually been able to find it but all of us that ride them can attest to it's existence. Great for fitting in a garage but stinks in a fast corner. Many H1's have broken the cast fork stops on the frame at the steering head. Wanna guess why? Yup, wobbles, stop to stop wobbles if you push it too far. They are really fun straight line bikes but can change your bodily function habits for a week at a time if you manage pushing it too hard in a turn cause you won't be able to p**p for week. I know this from personal experience both in the 70's when I got my first one and again two years ago<LOL>.

jeff
FWIW- Introduced for the '69 model year, 12.2 sec 1/4 mile, ran through '75 with changes(slower) each year, ended with MUCH weaker KH500 in '76

 

JeffK hit the nail on the head. One of the worst handling bikes ever built, but darned fast.

Back in the day (early '70s) I had a couple of buddies who rode them, both the 500 and the 750.

I remember one trip to Toronto when the guy on the 500 had to lean forward and hold onto a fork leg to keep the thing going straight in order to cruise along at 80 with the rest of us on our Nortons and Triumphs.

The guy who had the 750 LOVED to ride 3 and 4-gear wheelies; he showed up at my place one day white as a sheet. The thing had gone flat sideways on him when he upshifted with the front wheel in the air. We went out and inspected the bike-- you could grab the rear rim and literally shake it back and forth in relation to the hub. The rear wheel was coming unlaced from all the wheelies...

Absolutely BLOODY fast in a straight line though; and the 500 didn't have the big bike's affinity for wheelstanding (although it was certainly possible.)

I think one reason they're so rare/valuable is because most of them either got blown up or wrecked; the guys who bought them didn't treat them gently that's for sure.

And Jeff's right about another point-- if you didn't buy it already it's probably gone.

 

I think the handling did more damage to Kawasakis reputation than the performance did to enhance it!

I agree with the maintenance and wrecking comment - or "Thrashed" as we said in the UK. I had a few 2-strokes and most of them were on second oversize pistons by the time 10,000 miles came around!!!

 

hey jeff someone that knows about them. Other then the rebuilding the top end all the time what other engine problems do they have?. I have never owned a triple Kaw before. I have had built Rds when i was younger actually to built tolerances so close on the milled dg heads that if you would over rev it the piston would kiss the head they were unicycles also but handled better then the Kaw. I do not have to give this guy an answer til the 26th. I am really starting to have my doubts about it like he isn't telling me something. He said he bought it as a project bike a few years back and never got around to finishing it. The bike is not dented up has ok original paint 20k miles and has good compression. He wont tell me anymore i have tried to pry it out of him. Even comes with a service manual . It does look like it was rode pretty hard. To me if the bike has compression nothing to get it running unless something else major is wrong. He could of made a lot more money if he could had running. He said he needs the money for another project he has. There is no hurry for me to get 1. I do occasionally run into some good deals on them. I would almost rather get 1 that i knew what was wrong with it and pay more money for it. Last week i just missed getting a real nice looking s3 400 that came with a parts bike complete less tins and seat for 400 bucks some guy from Italy bought it and he was taking it to the exporter the following day.
You can probably fill me in a bit more on their problems

 

Sure, I’ll help you out. First, two words…..BUY IT! Did you hear me, let me say it louder BUY IT!!

You’ve already told me that it must be fairly complete if you are talking about paint instead of where to get a tank, seat etc so that makes it very much worth 600 bucks so go buy it, then come back and finish reading this post.


You already know part of the H1 history and you seem to know something about the bikes as well so I won’t go into that stuff. I will tell you that the engines are very simple in both their engineering and complexity. If you can turn a wrench on a XJ with any authority, you are going to have a very easy time on a two stroke. Not only do they make excellent power but if you know how to build your engine, you can move that power anywhere on the tach that you’d like.

I have a H1 engine opened up on one of my work tables in the basement right now and it is a marvel of simplicity. It weighs about 100 pounds complete with carbs, if that much. The entire bottom end of the engine consists of the crankshaft, a gear shaft with half of the gears, the output shaft with the other half of the gears and kick starter shaft along with the shift drum with the shift forks. Honestly speaking, most folks have more problems remembering to pre spring the kick starter then any other problem in the tranny. It’s that simple.

Remembering that these engines are 35 or more years old, the only thing that really goes bad simply from age is the crank seals. In a piston port engine, like your old RD, the charge enters the engine underneath the piston which then compresses the charge before uncovering the transfers and letting the charge enter the engine. This is why the crank seals are necessary and important. I’ve had great success renewing these by removing the top end, filling the crank with Whites Hyd. fluid for a few days then reassembling the top end. That stuff is amazing.

The other things that might need attention starting from the highest cost would be if the crank was out of true or the seals so far gone they need to be replaced and you can tell that once you get it running. Many guys go ahead and rebuild the crank as step one. I had one of my H2 cranks rebuilt over the summer by the guy that bought Damon Kirkland’s business when he recently retired and the guy did a fantastic job. He’s up here in Baltimore so I met him and chatted a whole before handing over my prized crank. He replaced all the rods and even sent me a video clip showing .000” run out when he was done. Total cost was around 600 including the rods.

I’ve put well over 15,000 miles on a top end before so unless you’re finding the redline every time you ride, they will last. Sometimes the shift forks get bent and they are now becoming scarce. I have a few good ones but they are becoming harder and harder to find. Bent forks will cause it to slip out of gear but with good forks and a weekend, you can be good to go. A lot of guys get their trannys undercut at a cost of 400+ but I don’t and never have and don’t have any problems. Todays gas sucks though and I get squish bands cut into my heads so they don't detonate.

Most parts can be renewed or rebuilt. There are still lots of parts on fleabay so don’t buy something overpriced because you’re afraid it won’t come back up for sale by someone else, trust me, it will. That said, parts for the H bikes are very expensive compared to the XJ’s which is another reason to buy the bike….you did buy it before you read all this right??????

Enjoy and if you need any help, just let me know and if you get stuck with something, I’ll walk you through it on the phone.

jeff

 

That's all you really need to know; you're not going to want to trust anything he told you anyway, so...

From what I can tell snooping around on eBay, Walnecks, and the innanet, it's worth at least 3X what the guy's asking just the way it sits. Apparently the fact that it has intact "tins" makes it worth a whole lot more.

So, did you buy it yet?

 

sent an email to him told him i would take it. He wont get back home til tomorrow night hopefully all will go well

 

Good going; hope it comes together.

Remember, there are a LOT of very experienced motorcycle enthusiasts on this forum; and of those, most of us are not EXCLUSIVELY experienced with XJs. For instance, my own "core expertise" lies in British bikes, particularly Norton Commandos and old Triumph twins. Looks to me like JeffK is an H-bike guy, and you've got a resource.

Start a thread in "Other Motorcycles" once you get it in your hands and see how it goes.

I've been doing more poking around, and I cannot believe how this mid-seventies smoker craze is building up. RD250s are going for 5X what they cost new; a clean RD400 Daytona Special will bring close to or over $5Grand. Water Buffaloes are now worth their weight in gold, and even those tinny little Suzukis like the GT380 (sorry Schooter) are bringing BIG BUCKS.

The H1 and H2 seem to be the creme-de-la-creme of the whole thing and are starting to demand some ridiculous dollars.

 

You are right about that Fitz, especially on this older bike forums because as someone, maybe you wrote earlier, most guys who buy these older bikes know a few things about working on them. Thats why I feel bad for the guy who posted looking for someone to fix his bike for him....I sure couldn't afford to pay someone to support my hobby and I doubt many do.

So, you know all about smoke leaking from wires and not wire breakage is what causes electrical failure? And God not withstanding, Lucas, lord of darkness? I also don't want to forget the fuse chart....you know, the one where tin foil is = to 10 amp, a thin nail is = to 20 amp and a 10penny is =to 225amps<LOL>.....

Back in the day in the mid seventies, my "friend" Ronnie brought me a non running old vertically split, leak oil everywhere, positive ground, shakes itself to death Bonneville to me to get running for him. He hadn't known it was a positive ground so it incurred, ah, some "issues" when he had tried to jump it from his car but he didn't bother to tell me that little piece of information. I soon learned what tickling was and to be sure to get it to the compression stroke before wasting my time, energy and being careful not to get a leg broke.

About 2 weeks later I took my first of many rides on one of the sweetest handling bikes I've ever ridden, even to this day......

I hadn't missed the fact that you had that Commando....followed one off an exit ramp with a non-modified H1 many years ago with the idea that once we got straight, I'd blow past him....not only couldn't i "blow past him", I couldn't even keep up as he motored away....Obviously, I never forgot that.....nice bike.

Cutlass, we're all rooting for you to land this one.....good luck!

jeff

 

Jeff; "Had" implies past-tense. I still HAVE the Norton; it's fully operational (although it does need some over-winter work.)



As sweet handling as ever, its "performance curve" is nearly the same as my 550 Secas, 13-second 1/4 mile at about 100mph; 112-115mph top end. However, with a 4-speed box and 6500rpm redline, it goes about it quite differently. And then there's that exhaust note...

(I took most all of my "previous rides" out of my sig, the list was too long.)

 

Guys, if you want to see an AWESOME story about a Norton....click on this Youtube link.

If you haven't seen it, I will bet it brings tears to your eyes. It did me!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82iVMONcwss

 

Way cool. Mine's 99.9% original. If my kids ever touch it they will lose body parts.

 

6500 rpm redline! yuck! Nah, that's a nice bike which I would love to have a triumph 650 or a snortin norton some day, when im older.

it would be really cool to get a late 60's early 70's bike soon after im out of college, and keep it past it's 100 year birth day

 

Very nice video, He face was priceless.

 

Funny you should say that I was just looking at this earlier on

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motor ... 194291.htm

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motor ... 232629.htm

The GT550J I used to own cost me $300 about 20 years ago but all that stuff is going the same way here as well

 

he finally wrote me back. the money that he said he needed it for was a 4 wheeler he ended up trading the guy for it. saw this one looks like way to much work but i could be wrong h2 750
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/mcy/2131114264.html
or
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/mcy/2124274705.html

 

Anyone else see how on that "American Pickers" show, they picked up a Kawasaki triple?

Apparently it was a '69 or a '70. They bought it for $150 and it was valued only at $300. It looked pretty much complete, though it had been sitting for a long time. But look what Fitz has done with his bikes. How long was that black xj sitting for?

I would love to have one.

 

Ever notice how Fitz is always looking for a chance to post pics of his bikes?
Hell, if mine looked that good I would too hehe

I wonder why more retro style bikes haven't been re-introduced into the market? The Kawi W650 went over well, I think there would be a rather large market for a retro look with updated components.

Now an off-topic thread jack question for Fitz, any experience with the 90's Truimph Triples? Missed out on a chance to grab a Trident 900 a while back, beautiful bike.

 

Hey you guys all seem to like pics, and my Norton isn't the most common bike out there...

Re: Retro-look bikes-- you would think so; they seem to be quite popular elsewhere (look at the continued success of the SR500 and relatives.)

Nope, sorry; all of my Triumph experience is with the "real" Triumphs, the original twins (and the blasted original triple.) A couple of my buddies bought Triumph triples back when I got my Norton; I almost bought one of those instead of my Nort. So very glad I didn't; setting the ignition (THREE sets of points, oh joy) and carbs (three Amals, need I say more) was a complete PIA. I didn't get to escape the task however, not all of my friends were as mechanically-inclined as I so guess who got to tune them anyway?

It's my understanding that the modern "Hinckley" Triumphs are superbly engineered and very reliable; at least they seem to be from any contact I've had with them. They have quite a loyal following amongst "original" old-school Triumph guys, I guess that says a lot.

 

Sorry you weren't able to get the bike. It seems that those that aren't bought with a sense of urgency, aren't bought....which is why I was pushing you to get moving on it.

The 750 in that ad was prob spam....most things, especially in motorcyle collecting that are too good to be true...are!

The KH's, while being a better riding bike are NOT worth H1 money to any collector worth his salt. They come from the same momma, but not the same daddy as a friend of mine puts it. Unless you can do your own porting work, you would never be able to get it to run as fast as a 69-72 H1.

Interestingly, Kaw took the H1 closer to the GT550 with the KH series...a safer, much slower bike. Trying to gain acceptance from a non-2stroke public, Kaw made the bike exactly what we performance hounds DIDN'T want. The writing was on the wall by then, Joan Claybrook(queen of the rear-stearing motorcycle) hated 2 stroke street bikes and had made it her life mission to get them off the road.

Occassionally I wonder if the same efforts that have gone into 4 strokes been applied to 2 strokes over the years, I wonder how much power a 500cc engine would make now? After all, back in the '70's we were able to get nearly 100 to the ground for privateers and factory GP teams were getting well over 120bhp! You also have to remember that a 500cc 2 stroke is much lighter then an equally sized 4 stroke....no valve train, no expensive and heavy head castings, no counterbalancers,........yup, sometimes I wonder at what could have been.

jeff

 

your probably right on the 750 i have sent several emails never herd back.

the kh wouldn't be a problem porting would just need a jug off of an early h1 to compare. With the time involved would probably be better off to buy a set of earlier jugs. I saw a complete early 70s h1 motor on ebay for 250 you never know what kind of other parts you would need when you buy a non running bike.

Been working on bikes 31 years as a job hobby ect. Just never a triple Kaw. thats why i was asking some of the questions about them. I have even built some impressive 2.5 litre v6 2stroke outboards over 200 hp

 

Yup, you know you're way around then. You sounded like you had more then a clue but unless you're in fronts of someone and talking with them....

I like the 2 stroke outboards. Although some of them have gotten more complicated then they probably need to be. I bought a little maxum this past summer to take my sweetheart and my kids out on and the one thing "the boat" had to have was an outboard engine. When I finally decided and bought the boat from the police chief up in Lancaster Pa, I found that he had serviced the engine like it was a Mercedes....and it's a Force engine from the era when Mercury owned US boat. It's very simple and I only had to replace the starter when I didn't catch that the mounting was loosened and caused it to shear the bendix spring. Other then that, it's run perfectly.

You'll get your triple in time and you'll find that they are very easy to work on or modify. My 72 had 3 sets of points whereas most of the other model H1's and all the H2's have CDI .....much less maintence.

jeff