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Complete newbie with SEVERELY neglected Seca 650

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by Redding, Jan 29, 2011.

  1. Redding

    Redding New Member

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    Hello all,
    Title explains my current position. I had a family friend call and offer me 2....yes 2....bikes (Seca XJ650 and a SR500) for the "just right" price of $0.00.
    Now, here's my dilemma.....both bikes have been left out in the elements for YEARS and are in pretty rough shape. I personally had to drag them out of the bushes from behind her house. The XJ has a lot of rust all over....cables, tank, exterior engine, bolts, etc. From what I can tell, neither bike runs.
    Now, I am brand spanking new to bike building, but am technically savvy and learn quickly. My question is this....where the heck do I start? Pull the engine and tear into that first? Frame? Wheels? What? I don't know too many details about either bike, as I haven't had a chance to REALLY look at them in detail, but hell, you can't beat free when you're looking for a project. Just to give you all an idea, I plan to go with a "mad max-esque" bobber style with minimal bells and whistles and would like to avoid cutting into the frame...much. I saw a bike that kept the normal ride height, etc. but with a springer seat that I fell in love with.
    I know that more details about the bike would be beneficial, but I don't have many right now. I just need a little guidance and a jumping off point. Any and all advice, criticism is needed and welcomed. I can post pictures tonight of the damage if that would help in advice. Thanks in advance.
     
  2. dwcopple

    dwcopple Active Member

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    make it run first, cosmetics last. Otherwise all is lost.
     
  3. Redding

    Redding New Member

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    I see your point...only problem is.....where the heck do I begin? At this point, I don't have keys, the gas tank has a small rust/hole in it. As I mentioned before, I'm a complete newbie when it comes to bikes...does this thing even have a kick start on it? If not, I'm kind of screwed or at the very least lost as to how to get it running as I believe the electric start is kind of a moot point at this juncture with all of the damage. :(
    I will certainly be able to give a lot more details and survey the damage by this time tomorrow as I hope to have a few daylight hours to really give it a once over.
    Thanks for the quick reply and PLEASE keep 'em coming.
     
  4. schooter

    schooter Active Member

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    where do you live and how much for the sr500?
     
  5. schooter

    schooter Active Member

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    ok, well, this is what id'd do, xj is electric start only, but since you dont have keys, you can just cut the wires to the key switch, I know there's 3 wires, i forget what color the 2 main ones will be, red and black are my guess, the toher wire just turns the tail light on when you lockthe steering wheel, so it wont hurt to play around with the wires... you will know you have it right if the headlight comes on assuming it works, and you will hear a click from a relay.

    next, once you have a battery and such, it's gonne be a PITA but you gotta learn, but you should pull the carbs off and clean them, dont worry, within the next day, I intentend to make a video tutorial, this forum needs one badly., also, put a teaspoon of motor oil in each cylinder. and you should also check and make sure you have spark, to do this, turn the bike on, make sure the kill switch is on on, and pull a spark plug out, make sure the end not in the cap is touching metal somewhere on the bike... the acorn nuts on the engine will work, and push the start button and watch for spark.
    next also, if you have spark, clean carbs, go buy a 1.25 gallon jug or gallon, i forget, of shell rotella 15-40 oil, it's 12 bucks, and drain the old oil and put that in, theres a sight gauge, i wouldnt change the filter yet, this oil will be good to just use for getting the bike running right and flushing out all the stuff in the engine, and once shes going you can change the filter and more shell rotella.

    if you get that far, check the rear brake shoe for delamination, make sure your front brakes work good, and theres plenty more, but that should get you so you can take it around the block.

    check the link in my sig for a big list of helpful links... these will also save your butt....

    so where do you live and how much for the sr?
     
  6. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Whoa hold on stop.

    Schooter's giving you some good advice, but the VERY first thing you need to do is go over it closely, visually, and write down everything obvious. You can use this as a checklist of sorts, http://www.clarity.net/~adam/buying-bike.html then report back. Don't get ahead of yourself if you want the bike to run.

    DON'T cut any wires, and DO NOT PULL THE MOTOR OR TAKE IT APART. WAIT until you have some idea of what you're doing and what you're up against, or you can paint yourself into an un-rescue-able corner.

    There IS NO kick-start "option" for the 4-cylinder XJ, btw.

    The first thing will be to run a compression test and see what you have to work with, motor-wise. If the bike has no battery, then you can simply use the instructions being given here http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=29544.html (for testing compression with the motor out of the bike.)

    I outlined the very basic points of the "recommissioning" process here: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=24010.html

    And the link in Schooter's sig http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=27544.html is a whole bunch of good stuff all gathered together in one place to specifically answer the very questions you're asking. A whole lot of folks have done this ahead of you; it's not impossible but it does take time and commitment.

    NOW then (shuttup Schooter) let's talk about the SR500. I had two of them (a '78 and then an '80) back in the day, and do know a tad about them. Gather the same info as suggested for the XJ, and start a new thread in "other motorcycles" in regard to the SR and I'll tell you what I know. Then you can sell it to me if you decide not to restore it.
     
  7. schooter

    schooter Active Member

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    but but big fitz...


    ok fine. DONT CUT ANY WIRES, buuut, I do happen to have an xj750 ignition WITH A KEY, that i will give to you, if you live in michigan and will sell me the sr500, my ignition im pretty sure will just be plug in and go, though i may have cut the wire for the tail light to come on when you lock the front end, which is useless because you will kill your battery.
     
  8. schooter

    schooter Active Member

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    lucky you- just checked the ignition.. no wires cut
     
  9. Redding

    Redding New Member

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    Guys....this information is GREAT. I really appreciate the time you're taking to help.
    Schooter, as far as the ignition goes.....unfortunately (for you at least :)) I am planning on keeping the SR and fixing her as well. Does that mean that you're "deal" of giving it to me is off?? :)
    And to answer the question originally asked....I live in South Carolina. Looooong way from Michigan.
     
  10. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    You gotta understand that Schooter and I are about 40 years apart age-wise but only about 60 miles geographically so he just can't resist sometimes.

    I have a ratty POS 650 Seca project too, in addition to my two recommissioned 550s.

    Read the stuff in the links we posted, and get a manual. Then take charge of your "process" and dig in.

    You know, I might just have an SR500 manual somewhere; I'll have to look. I'll let you know.
     
  11. schooter

    schooter Active Member

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    yes... now you have to pay shipping :D

    lemme know if you want it for shipping... feel like helping people out, especially if parts i dont want from my build help others..

    60 miles apart and we still have never done anything together fitz...

    maybe you'll go to muskegon bike times with a bunch of cool guys?
     
  12. Redding

    Redding New Member

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    Well....to Fitz...thanks again. Definitely let me know about that manual. I've been watching one on ebay for a few days now, but honestly don't feel like bidding (it's coming from England) if I don't have to.

    Schooter, absolutely i'll take the ignition. Let me know what you want for shipping and we'll Paypal it up. I don't quite know if i'll need it yet, but it certainly can't hurt to have it. Thanks again to you as well.

    And.....just an FYI...gave both bikes a look a few minutes ago and it seems that the SR is in MUCH better shape. They're both still pretty rough, but I believe that the SR is going to get most of my attention to begin with.
     
  13. schooter

    schooter Active Member

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    pics would be cool, pm on your way
     
  14. Redding

    Redding New Member

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    Got a few pics of the SR500 taken. I know that this technically isn't the proper section. I'll get some more up tomorrow of the XJ.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Redding

    Redding New Member

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    Okay.....that didn't work...hmmmm. What to do, what to do.
     
  16. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    Redding:
    If you will take the time to CHANGE the Front and Back of those photo LINKS from:

    theresaphotographtolookat [img]

    -To-

    [IMG] theresaphotographtolookat [IMG]

    The results will be AWSOME, ...
    Because instead of:

    [img]\\http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh107/RickCoMatic/Yamaha/750atMarinaClean.jpg\\

    And everybody seeing a Dead Link, ...
    You'll see:
    [​IMG]

    The Photograph you want us to look at, ...

    A Photograph where the Link appears.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. rotaryboots

    rotaryboots New Member

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    SR500 looks better than some barn, garage, shed, bikes I've seen. Shouldn't take much to get the SR going I'd think.

    As for the XJ, don't get ahead of your self. Here's a little run-down of what I tell my customers that ask me about barn finds or bikes given to them that haven't run in forever:

    1. Take a deep breath and take it all in and think everything through. A new bike is always a complete mystery and it doesn't take long before you take something off and then say "where the heck does this part go?"

    2. Drain the oil. Its bad...period. Replace it with "motorcycle engine oil". All the companies make a motorcycle engine oil that is better on our clutches and high rpm engines. While you're at the parts store, see if they have a filter in stock too. Its good to replace that as well, no use dumping oil into a dirty filter.

    4. Take WD-40 or even some basic 10w-30 oil and dump about 1/3 of a cup into each cylinder. Those cylinders and pistons haven't moved in years. The oil will help to free up the rings and get things moving again.

    5. Drain the tank, and take it off. Don't ever put fuel in it and expect to use it until it has been cleaned. Local radiator shops have a tank that they can put it in and clean all the rust and sediment out. The last thing you would want to do is finish going through your carbs perfectly, and then put the tank back on, fill it with gas, and have all that crap plug up your carbs again. Luckily these bikes don't need a fuel pump, so take something like a big syringe or even something like a turkey baster look-a-like and fill it with gas with the other end attached to the carbs so you know the fuel you're putting in those carbs is very clean.

    6. The old battery is shot. Get a new one.

    7. Get a couple bottles of brake or carb cleaner. You'll be using this to clean up the engine a bit and you'll use the carb cleaner to...clean the carbs.

    8. New plugs

    ...

    9. After you've cleaned the carbs and have everything ready to begin starting the bike hold off for a couple seconds.

    10. Leave the plugs out and spin the engine over for 10 or so seconds, let the starter cool, then spin the engine over again for 10 more seconds. This will get the oil pump primed and lube up the top end of the engine.

    11. Now once you've cleared the engine of the oil in the cylinders from cranking the engine, and the engine is lubed, go ahead and take a compression test if you like, or put the plugs on the wires and check for spark.

    12. Good spark? Ok put the plugs in, pull the choke, cross your fingers, and give her a crank. If she fires, pat your self on the back. The let her idle for a little while until its warmed up. Then let it cool off (air cooled engine).

    13. Start her up and put it on its center stand. Now you're going to check the operation of the clutch and its gears. Run it through all its gears and back again. It shouldn't grind or be difficult to get it to go through all 5.

    14. By now your tank should be all cleaned, so go ahead and put it on and its always a good idea to put a little fuel filter inline just in case. Those carbs weren't fun to rebuild, better safe than sorry.

    :)

    Ok, now take it for a spin... to your local bike shop. Have them replace those really old dry rotted unsafe tires and maybe have them do a quick carb sync for you.


    Ok, now you can focus on the cosmetics because your bike is now mechanically sound.

    Have fun and don't forget to post pictures of the adventure.
     
  18. NigeW

    NigeW Member

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    Hi. cutting and pasting of your link above does work - SR looks in pretty good shape from the pic. Can you post pics of the XJ?

    To add an attachment direct to your messages, you could try attaching an image which is UNDER 500 pixels wide (I re-size to 490 just to be on safe side).

    Nige
     
  19. NigeW

    NigeW Member

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    Ignore that - I hadn't seen the replies on page 2 (had only read page 1)...

    Nige
     
  20. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Except a detail was omitted; the syntax is photo you wanna share[[b]/[/b]IMG] You need a "/" in front of "IMG" at the end of the photo link.

    Then they work fine:

    [img]http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd504/Aidanred/IMG_20110130_171341.jpg

    Lots of good advice above; except some important things got left out:

    REAR BRAKES. Both of the bikes have drum rear brakes, and they're known to delaminate, it's very common: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=15874.html

    Be sure to UNPLUG THE TCI unit before any cranking of the motor with the plugs out. This applies to the XJ for sure, and I believe to the SR as well.

    You're going to need to completely rebuild the front brakes too, including lines. Recommended lifespan is 5 years, I'll bet yours are original.
     
  21. schooter

    schooter Active Member

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    Got a few pics of the SR500 taken. I know that this technically isn't the proper section. I'll get some more up tomorrow of the XJ.

    [​IMG]
     
  22. Redding

    Redding New Member

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    I hadn't come back and checked on the forum in a few days.....didn't realize people were still chatting about it. Some AWESOME advice so far guys. I'm definitely getting excited here lately. Now, I just need some time to start tearing into both of them.
    Schooter....thanks a ton for the help with the pictures. I'm gonna snap a few of the XJ probably on Friday....gotta work all day tomorrow. Just FYI, it's a LOT worse than the SR.
    Also...Schooter PM sent.

    Now, as an aside. Regarding "starting" the XJ after i've gone through all of the steps above.....my electric start switch, etc. is rusted/stuck solid. I'm almost positive that it will eventually need replaced. Is there a way around this just for testing sake before I spend the money and buy a new unit?
     
  23. Maxim-X

    Maxim-X Well-Known Member

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    Tons of good advice from all the other guys, but the first thing you should do, if you haven't already done it, is make sure you have good clean titles to the bikes. You didn't say anything about that in any of your posts, so make sure the titles are clear and in your name before you spend a red cent on anything.
    Once that is done, then go for it!
     
  24. Redding

    Redding New Member

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    Yeah Maxim,
    Working on the titling process as we speak. Got the papers and everything sent off. Should be about a week or two and both will be officially "sold" to me and titled in my name.
     
  25. Maxim-X

    Maxim-X Well-Known Member

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    Nice one Redding, I've heard stories of guys "Aquiring a bike from a friend, family, neighbour etc. Fixing it up to ride only to find out that the original owner now wants his bike back and you bite the bullet on the costs of fixing it.
    Keep the pics and updates coming.
    Good luck with the build(s)
     

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