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Valve Cover Gasket, EVIL!!!!

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by carsonschaos, Feb 19, 2007.

  1. carsonschaos

    carsonschaos Member

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    Any suggestions before I break something in frustration??
     
  2. bosozoku

    bosozoku Member

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    Although it may be tempting, breaking parts won't help.

    What seems to be the problem?.
     
  3. Robert

    Robert Active Member

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    Simple solution, buy a new one and install.
     
  4. bosozoku

    bosozoku Member

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    We should find out what the problem is, before throwing suggestions at the OP.
     
  5. carsonschaos

    carsonschaos Member

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    I have a new gasket.
    I just can't seem to keep it in place while installing the cover.
    I tried some washable elmers glue as I saw in a thread.
    I spent over an hour poking the gasket back in place
    but it still didn't stay inplace for the install.
    I thought about using sealer and placing it on a flat surface
    with a weight on top untill dry, then installing.
    How do you all do it?
     
  6. XJXLEE

    XJXLEE Member

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    spot tack it in a few places with superglue
     
  7. Altus

    Altus Active Member

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    High-tack gasket glue like this: Permatex High Tack or (my personal choice) a thin coating of Permatex Form-A-Gasket -- thick like grease, and sticky - holds it in place, and helps seal the gasket forever after....
    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  8. Danilo

    Danilo Member

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    Strange mine simply push fit into the valve cover grooves and stay put even through the gyrations necessary to wiggle the Cover thru the frame and onto the head.. But then I use Yama gaskets :) Lifes too short to save $5.
     
  9. carsonschaos

    carsonschaos Member

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    Parts-N-More..$19
    Local Yamaha dealer...$56
    So I went with the cheaper gasket.
    $5 yes but $37 OUCH!!!
    It seems to fit alright.
    I'll glue it in an try again.
     
  10. bosozoku

    bosozoku Member

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    Try some soft-set adhesive such as Yamabond,ThreeBond 1104 or any equivalent. DO NOT use a general purpose glue that sets up hard, like superglue!...the adhesive will fail, and Mr. Leak will return. Silicone or RTV seal is also a poor choice for this gasket.

    Glue the gasket in place, then apply a thin coat of grease on the gasket where it contacts the head- it will come off next time in one piece with the valve cover.


    [​IMG]
     
  11. MiCarl

    MiCarl Active Member

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    I did a partsnmore gasket too. Aside from seeming just a hair too long (around the perimiter) it had all the kinks from being folded onto a piece of cardboard and shrink wraped.

    I like the idea of using something like superglue to tack it into place, but I wonder if that would work with the aftermarket gasket we're discussing because it actually tends to lift out of the groove (due to being a smidgen too long).

    I ended up putting a thin layer of RTV in the groove and clamping 2x4s along each upright of the H to hold in place until the RTV set. Of course the 2x4 ended at the ears that close off the relief in the head.
     
  12. Gearhead76

    Gearhead76 Member

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    If it's cold you have to let the gasket sit flat in side so it flatens out. you can use the sealers these guys were talking about or I use weather stripping adhesive, seems to work good for me
     
  13. Robert

    Robert Active Member

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    Bosozoku, you are soooo right. I "assumed" that the user was trying to re-use the original seal. Bad night, that's two I flubbed.
     
  14. juha_teuvonnen

    juha_teuvonnen New Member

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    I used to be a Porsche mechanic. No matter how carefully we installed the gaskets on 911 engines, eventually they started to leak. Because of the clever German design, they would leak oil on the exhaust manifolds and produce nasty smoke, smell and become a fire hazard. To add insult to injury, the engine compartment was so tight that it was easier to drop the engine and tranny out of the car if you wanted to do valve adjustment.

    Once we started using RTV silicone "gasket maker" all these problems went away for good. I swore that I'd never use a freaking gasket again. Use a silicone sealant, it is infinitely superior to the freaking gaskets. Of course, there are a few places where you still use them, like head gaskets. I use silicone sealant pretty much everywhere else with great success. Make sure that you clean out the surfaces thoroughly, remove the oil and such by washing them with rubbing alcohol. The surfaces have to be squeaky clean prior to application.
     
  15. BlueMaxim

    BlueMaxim Active Member

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    Sorry but not true. We have been using and recommending high temp RTV on these gaskets for years to stop the oil leak they are notorious for. I use it myself and have had no real problems. The only problem I would caution about is not to let any small drops fall into the engine. Over time many drops could stop a small oil passage. We recommend placing the cover on a bench and applying a thin bead alone the cover edge where the gasket will seal. Then applying a thin bead on the gasket itself and after allowing it to become tacky installing it on the engine. This keeps smal stringy strands from developing and later breakin goff into the engine internals. However most of these will be held in check by the oil pump mesh screen. Most but not all. So be careful! :)
    Permatex makes a variety of RTV's with good oil resistance and temp protection up to 700degF.
    Gasgacinch is an old product and does work well even on old copper head gaskets.
     
  16. Captainkirk

    Captainkirk Member

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    I disagree. Silicone RTV does not do well in contact with petroleum-based compounds (read; oil and gasoline). It will eventually start to turn to jelly, lose it's bond, and then it will be twice as hard to clean off. Tack the gasket to the valve cover using a flexible cement as previously recommended. Set the cover on a flat surface and allow the gasket cement to dry using a weight on top of the cover. Coat the head side of the gasket with grease or preferably, a silicone-based lubricant such as Dow Corning DC4 and reinstall. You will never have problems removing it again.
     
  17. Gearhead76

    Gearhead76 Member

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    There are many different types of rtv all ment for different applications so read the tubes, they work upto different temps, hold up to different fluids, I've used the Right stuff quite a few times and was very satisfied with it, It's expensive $15 a can but it works.
     
  18. BlueMaxim

    BlueMaxim Active Member

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    No has yet mentioned gasoline. I would never recommend it in the presence of gasoline. It will turn to jelly and then a goo that will clog anything. Oil is different. I have not had this happen using RTV on my cylinderhead gasket. I mainly use it to stop the oil leak. IF your gasket doesn't leak then you don't need it. The most miles I have put on my gasket with RTV in place is around 8k. It came off rather easily and was not gooey. I am not trying to sell my opinion, rather I am reporting my experience. The oil resistance of their RTV's can be found on permatex's web site. I would suggest downloading the pdf for reference.
     
  19. carsonschaos

    carsonschaos Member

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    I ended up using the ultra black, high temp RTV.
    I put it in the cover groove, and installed the gasket.
    I sat it on a flat surface for about an hour.
    When it was tacky enough to hold the gasket,
    I put it on the bike and lightly bolted it on to sqeeze out extra RTV.
    The next day I pulled it off and removed any RTV that
    had oozed out from under the gasket.
    Now I'll put it back on and tighten it down.
    I hope I'm OK with that.
     
  20. juha_teuvonnen

    juha_teuvonnen New Member

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    I use the hugh-temp stuff that GM recommends for Corvettes. Yes, I use in on my Vette too. Never had any problems with it. I would never use RTV for caulking bathroom fixtures on a vehicle. Use the high-temp automotive grade stuff and it'll work.
     
  21. Gearhead76

    Gearhead76 Member

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    they do make a rtv that hold up to gas, I've gotten it from napa before, can't think of the name though
     
  22. BlueMaxim

    BlueMaxim Active Member

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    I Have heard about it too. But I think I would still have trouble trusting it knowing how it affects all other RTV's. I think that is what the controversy is in this thread. The old RTV's did not fair well with oil. When I was a kid I tried some on a 69 Charger valve cover. Leaked the first week. So we switched from cork to rubber gaskets and that fixed it. The new RTV's are much improved, especially in their heat tolerance range. I have now learned to trust them after some trial in the field. I would be very timid to try the RTV with fuel having seem the goo it will turn it into.
     
  23. Gearhead76

    Gearhead76 Member

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    I'll try to find out what it's called tommorow, I've used it on several cars with out a problem, granted not the right way to fix but it works.
     
  24. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand why there should be a leak problem if the gasket is positioned correctly and carefully fitted.

    The essential ingredient is Precision.
    That's why the Cover has the all-important alignment channel.

    With the gasket positioned with the utmost precision and care ... such that the gasket is precisely where it belongs, along every fraction of an inch or one-tenth centimeter ... and is secured, along the channel, from shifting-around as it is placed down upon a throughly cleaned and prepared surface ... allowing the gasket to expand and compress when tightened ... it shouldn't leak.

    Shoot some Permatex Spray-a-Gasket into a clean Tuna can or Yogurt cup until there is enough accumulated to "Paint-On-a-gasket"!

    Use an artist brush and paint the entire gasket mating surface.
    Paint the mating surface on the Head; too.

    Get the cover on and finger tighten the fastener's.
    Go to specs slow ... allowing the gasket to compress nice all around!
     
  25. Hvnbnd

    Hvnbnd Active Member

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    My preferance for valve cover gaskets is contact cement.
    Cat makes a contact cement gasket adhesive that is the greatest, but it's Hell to get off. You have to use gasket remover spray to get it off.
    GOOD LUCK
     
  26. Hvnbnd

    Hvnbnd Active Member

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    The Cat glue part # is 5H2471 Cat cement. It's green there are two main adhesives they use one is red and the other is green.


    GOOD STUFF
     
  27. FinnogAngela

    FinnogAngela Member

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    Rick - I want to get this right as I´m hoping to have the valve cover off and on again before spring..

    Is the alignment channel in the cylinder head or the valve cover?

    You previously recommended using elmer´s glue to secure the gasket in the channell - and coating the gasket with thin oil, I suppose to make disassembling easier.

    Do any of these "extra" ingredients (glue, Spray-a-gasket) make it impossible to reuse the gasket for the next valve adjustment?
     
  28. MiCarl

    MiCarl Active Member

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    The gasket under the cam cover is more like a seal. There is a groove in the cover it lays in, and has a flat surface that tightens against the head. Really shouldn't require any sealant at all and should be reusable until the rubber hardens.

    Issue is getting the bugger to lay in the groove and then keeping it from falling out when installing the cover. Once it's in place the adhesive is no longer necessary (elmers glue).

    Ideally you'd use an adhesive that would hold up over time so you could pull the cover without having to re-glue the gasket - but would be easy enough to undo so the gasket could be easily replaced if necessary.
     
  29. FinnogAngela

    FinnogAngela Member

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    Thanks Micarl.

    Now I can picture it; so actually, if the the ideal adhesive isn´t found, the best way is to turn the bike upside down to ensure the gasket stays in the groove..:)
     
  30. MiCarl

    MiCarl Active Member

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    Wish I'd thought of that.
     
  31. samsr

    samsr Member

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    I just did mine this winter after I adjusted the valves on the xj. I used 3m spray adhesive to retain the gasket in the track on the valve cover. I was using a Yamaha gasket though. It worked well.
     
  32. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    Ideally ... you set the gasket's "Tongue" in the "Groove-channel" and glue the tongue from falling out.

    When you install the cover ... a light coating of oil on the flat of the gasket and the mating surface of the block should do two things:

    Seal the cover to the head with no leaks by letting the gasket freely compress against the block.

    Allow you to lift-off the cover for future work without damaging the gasket and re-use the gasket many times before needing a replacement.
     

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