Newbie with first bike learning the hard way...

Hey guys - first time post. I bought an XJ650 Maxim a few weeks ago and have been learning the hard way what happens when a bike is not taken care of - it sat for a year or so and I've already worked through a couple of minor things (with the Haynes manual). Yesterday, she was running the best she has yet, but when I pulled up to my coffeehouse, it cut off and would not turn over to crank back up. Oil light - okay, I thought, maybe she's burning some oil and I need to top her up. When I poured the oil in and watched the sight window, it seemed to be empty, so I put in about 2 and 1/2 quarts. Immediately, oil started to pour out of the hose that comes out of the bottom of the air cleaner and out from around the grommet where the union connects the hose from the crankcase. I got the bike home(about a mile away) and the oil was still coming out.

Today, I took the top of the air cleaner off to inspect the filter and it was full of oil.

What happened here?! Could this have been my newbie stupidity assuming it was empty of oil and putting too much oil in? A problem from sludge build-up in the oil separator? Or something else all together that I don't even know enough to ask about?

I have thick skin and know that I may be in over my head already, so I don't mind flames if there is some guidance somewhere in it.

 

Welcome! Glad to have another GA local. I used to frequent Griffin/Peachtree City.

#1 Check that rear brake for pad delamination! When the brakes get old or the bike has been sitting for an extended period of time that pad can come off the shoe -- and it can cost you if that happens while you're riding.

#2 Change the oil. Just start from scratch there. Since it's obviously giving you mixed messages (oil window empty, spewing oil) -- just change the oil and then you'll know how much is in there, and THEN you can try and see what the issue is.

Did you have the bike centered when you checked the oil window?

 

Hey Andrew - sounds like a good start. I used to live in Cumming for a couple years back around '01-'02.

1. How will I visually know if the pad has been delaminated? I'm assuming that oil flying back on to it would possibly do that.

2. Will do - looks like I also need a new air filter since this one is SOAKED.

3. No, I wasn't centering the bike - do you mean stand it straight up - makes since: leaning bike = leaning oil level

 

If any square nanometer of the pads is coming off the shoe -- replace immediately.

Yep. It needs to be straight up to check that little window. It would be good to invest in a rear stand. You'd really need a rear stand to check the rear brake, anyways, since you have to remove the wheel.

 

Cool - got it up on the rear stand now - gotta go work on it. I'll update after it's done - thanks man!

 

In a word...YUP!

The 650 takes 2500CM3 of oil, about 2.7 quarts. When empty. And changing the filter.

When you check the oil level the bike has to be on the center stand. If it is on the side stand you won't see any oil in the window. You also won't see any oil in the window with the bike running.

Before starting again you need to:

Change the oil and filter.
Change the air filter.
While you're at it you might as well save a step later and put new plugs in now.

When changing the oil:
Fill with 2.5 quarts of MOTORCYCLE oil.
Run the bike for a minute to circulate the oil.
Let it sit for at least ten minutes after the motor is off.
Re-check the level. Fill almost to the top of the window. You'll want just a small "bubble" at the top of the window.
Let it sit for another ten minutes and check the level again.

Check this post out on brake delamination

 

Thanks, tskaz - yeah, I blew oil all into the airbox. Pulling the filters now and will go ahead and pull those plugs - if it's like everything else on the bike, I doubt they got any attention from the PO either.

I should have replaced all these essentials first, but I got caught up in the excitement and all of a sudden here I am - ready, fire, aim.

And thanks for the tips on checking oil.

 

Holy crap, tskaz - I just looked at the delamination post - rear wheel coming off NOW.

 

Well that's why we're here. Need to help the new guys keeps these old bikes on the road, safely. Anymore questions just ask us.....What am I saying, of course you'll have questions! LOL......and we'll all be here ready to help.

Also bleed the front brakes, but check the date on the hoses first. If they're more than 5 years old, replace them.

 

With your oil change, add some SeaFoam to the oil. Using a decent amount of this will break down/clean out a lot of crud which has built up inside. But be aware, this will also free up a fair amount of debris, so I would change the oil again after a couple hundred miles as this will be the first time it has been cleaned in quite some time. Use either a pint or a half-pint. Use some in your next tank or two of gas as well.

 

No no NO.

Do NOT put SeaFoam in your crankcase; it's simply a solvent and dilutes/pollutes the oil. Do not subject this old motor to that kind of abuse.

Put it in your gas if you want; it always makes my bikes run crappy. But don't put it in your crankcase. HOT OIL is the best way to clean out the motor; plan on an oil change about 200 miles after you begin riding it; and another at about 500 miles. That will get the crud out of the motor without endangering a bearing.

 

+ 1 No Seafoam in the crankcase. I have used it in the gas to dissolve some minor gumming and stabilize the fuel for storage.

 

I tried it because of all the talk; and went back to Sta-Bil. SeaFoam affected how the bike(s) ran; Sta-Bil doesn't.

To reiterate: Never put anything but oil in the crankcase, no matter what Carrol Shelby says.

 

I was not saying to leave it in a long time. Just long enough to give the engine a good wash, dissolve the garbage, and then change the oil again. I am thinking of a bike which has been sitting and where varnish or such can be restricting oil flow in tight places, kind of like arteriosclerosis ...

 

Okay - didn't get anywhere close to taking the rear wheel off to check the brake pads today. When I pulled the plug from the oil pan, I was shocked at the amount of oil that came out - must have been six full quarts in there and black as sin. And yes, in case you were wondering, I do feel like an idiot.

Then there was the oil filter housing bolt - it had been cranked on so hard I thought it was going to snap off in the socket. Then I spent two hours trying to find an air filter that didn't cost $50, and went with ordering an EMGO filter for 1/4 of that, after shipping.

Looking forward to finishing all that up tomorrow, then making such the front and rear brakes are squared away. All of this make getting back on the rode that much more enjoyable and me that much more grateful to be able to ride.

 

In short seafoam reduces the surface tension of the fuel so it atomizes better giving the illusion of better performance to some. What is actually happening is essentially a lean condition.
F/I folks can run it as a cleaner if they want.

 

I would think less surface tension would make it easier for the fuel to be sucked up by the air stream.

 

I know bigFitz isn't a fan, but many of us have seen good benefit from the *occasional* use of seafoam, particularly when trying to get something going initially. It is fifty some percent Naptha, as I recall, and works to dissolve a lot of carp in short order. At the same time, you don't want to overdo it.

YMMV.

 

Better atomization would be a good thing, providing better dispersal into the firing chamber, cleaner burn, and more power. AIR, that is the whole purpose of the YICS system, 'nest pas?

I have not heard, do not know, had not considered the effect of seafoam on the actual combustion situation/octane effect/impact on ethanol (does it help against ethanol or make it worse?). My thought has only been regarding cleaning the carp out of these old carbs and engines (oil areas).

Does anyone have some good information in this regard?
What does seafoam do to octane?
How does it affect fuel dispersion the firing chamber.
Does it cause a leaner condition? richer? No effect?

 

Thanks for all the previous help, guys. I got a new oil filter in and my new EMGO air element came in today, so I'll be installing that tomorrow. Have been adjusting the idle to get it down in the 1100rpm range, but takes a long time to warm up then wants to cut out. Looks like I'll be messing with the mixture screws and trying to get them more evened out - all short-term fixes, I know. It seems that what really needs to happen is to pull the carbs and take them through the cleaning processes notated here on the forum, but the bike is my daily transportation, so I can't afford to have her out of commission for more than half a day.

However, I have a good solid day tomorrow to deal with these issues and take off the rear wheel as well so I can check the brakes for delamination. Wish me luck.

 

How many miles on the bike? Do you have a manual yet?

Have we discussed valve adjustment yet?

You don't want to damage your daily rider by continuing to neglect maintenance like the PO probably did. Just putting an old bike back in service without doing certain things first can really bite you.

 

Fitz - mileage is a bit over 17K. I don't think we have discussed valve adjustment, but I have read several threads re. working with the mixture screws and have also spent some time with our local bike shop's owner/mechanic.

Tell me if I'm on the right track about mixture screws. I've read on here that 1 and 3/4 to 2 and 1/2 turns from the bottom is factory spec for the screws. When I went to see where mine were, they were all in different positions - one was at 2 turns, one at 1 and 3/4, one at 3 and 1/2 and one at 4 and 1/4. I figured that the PO was trying to offset dirty carb issues with the mixture screws. Now, I have two of the screws at 2 turns, one at 3 and one at 4. Then I got a seafoam-like fuel system cleaner in the tank and ran that through this week. I just filled up the tank again yesterday and put a half dose of system cleaner in.

Maybe I have too many things going on at once: idle adjustment, mixture screw adjustment and furl system cleaner all at once? I've never done this before or anything mechanical like it, so I'm really trying to feel my way through it, with the Haynes manual and this forum, of course.

 

bigfitz - I just read your post on Airhead Valve Adjustment ( http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic ... tment.html )

I don't even have some of the tools you mentioned there yet, but give me time and I'll get there. I suppose I could resort to some type of Bronson rock. Thanks for the pics and thorough explanation - very concise, so it helps take some of the fear out of the process for a first-timer.

 

Glad your bike is making progress. The best thing of all is that you're willing to learn and do it right!

 

I think a healthy amount of fear and respect for the process is helping me do it in manageable doses, but I can't help but worry that there is something beyond my current understanding ticking like a timebomb inside my bike somewhere counting down to zero, so I'm putting as much time into it as possible. This forum and its members are absolutely invaluable!

 

Your ticking time bomb right now is the valve clearances. If they've never been touched you're approaching the danger zone for burning a valve.

Valve adjustment intervals are every 5000 miles after the initial chack at 3000 miles. A large majority of these bikes were never touched due to the economics of the situation. (Paying the dealer to do it after the warranty was out.)

Valves out of spec will keep you from doing any meaningful carb adjustments.

Get yourself a set of these: http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... DAQ8wIwBQ#

and at least CHECK them. Then you'll at least have an idea of how much time you have before disaster strikes.

I'm not trying to scare you, I'm trying to save you a LOT of downtime on your DR.

 

Awesome, fitz - a set of those are now next on my tool purchase list. Not that it makes it any better, but I live in the downtown that I also work in and my daily riding adds up to about 3-5 miles per day. Perhaps that will buy me a bit of time. I gambler's proposition if I ever heard one. Playing the odds on burning a valve is not a nice place to be. Now if I can just make it to next weekend - that's a chancey if.