NTSB - Ins. Co.'s Lobbyists Pushing For MANDATORY Helmet Law

F-Y-I

Groups beginning to insist for Mandatory Helmet Laws ...

Some for MC
Some for MC's and Bicycles

Read Article appearing in Huffington Post Today 11.27.10

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-c ... 86402.html

 

Uh oh.The great helmet debate.What were the results of the survey on this?

 

EVERYONE SHOULD USE A HELMET

 

I agree, everyone should own a helmet.

 

Re: NTSB - Ins. Co.'s Lobbyists Pushing For MANDATORY Helmet

We all know you are much safer without a helmet.Its common sense for Petes sake!What good could a helmet do in case of an accident?Seat belts are for dumasses also,just so ya know.

 

I always wear a helmet but who's right is it to tell anybody what to do. This goes along with the theme of if the actions of another person doesn't affect your rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness so stated in the constitution you know that piece of paper we founded this country on that everyone seems to have forgotten about I mean were does it stop. Sorry that's my daily rant.

 

I'm going to go with Good - everyone on two wheels should wear a helmet, and if you're too stupid to put one on yourself, it should be mandated.

I've ridden in states where they don't have the helmet laws, and tried it -- kinda interesting, but I'm not risking my life for the feeling.

I've known too many people with facial and head injuries from both motorcycling and bicycling worlds to believe otherwise.

 

lets not forget the shower and snow covered sidewalks
it might say something about this in Obama Care but nobody read it

 

if you protect the idiots from themselves, eventually you end up with a nation of idiots. They like to breed like rabbits. And they vote.
Natural selection please.
I wear a helmet, but i'm friggin sick of all the mandates. It's supposed to be a free country.

 

Like others have said, you should wear a helmet...BUT...NANNY shouldn't be in BIG BROTHER'S job classifications :x !!!

skillet

 

I agree with those saying it should NOT be mandated to wear a helmet. I wear a helmet because I WANT TO wear a helmet, but it pisses me off that if I did want to go without, it's illegal where I'm from.

 

ATGATT... period. I don't care if it's pushing 100 outside.... I will be in a helmet jacket pants boots and gloves. I witnessed an accident where a guy was going 75 in a 35... car pulled out in front of him. He locked up his brakes, laid it down, slid 50 yards, he hit a curb, infos fire hydrant, then through a glass window. Good news - he lived, bad news - only wearing a t shirt, athletic shorts, and flip flops. Seriously.... he was working on his bike and wanted to take a quick spin around the block...

 

My 1st 20 yrs of riding was in so. cal and we always had a
helmet on. Had too because of traffic!

When I moved to AZ and endless open roads I chose a doo-rag.

I'm looking for a helmet as I write just because I want to wear one.

As far as a manditory law thats BS! And don't give me the "everyboby
has to pay for you'r injury" crap. There's plenty of UNDER insured
cagers that get public funding for their injuries for the stupid stunts they
pull.

 

I live in iowa and there is no helmet law here , But i still Own and wear one. I've seen way too many people's brains scraped off the pavement to not.

 

Here in Ontario it is already law for both motorcycles and bicycles. There is an age where a bicyclist can choose not to wear one, but children are required. Can't say I disagree because too many parents don't protect their children, and children aren't informed nor experienced enough to decide for themselves. I wear a hemet and frankly won't ride without one. Seen too many head injuries to risk not putting on the old brain bucket. Having said that, I agree that it should be one's own decision as to what protection you choose to use/wear when riding. (oops, does that sound dirty?) They may soon make that protection mandatory also. When does it stop?

 

I don't think many ADULTS are informed enough to make that judgment. The judgment of the human brain is not statistically accurate. How many people would choose not to install seatbelts, or get insurance, if it wasn't mandated? Maybe gear should be mandated at the point of sale so you don't have a choice, it's factored into the cost, like seatbelts.

Consider just the MONETARY benefit of the gear vs no gear arguement. For $500, you can get entry level gear, that will require replacing if you go down. Some may say that's too expensive, that they can't afford it. But if they go down, they find out just how much is SAVED in medical bills.

Another issue with requiring someone to wear gear is they get used to it. When I rode my dad's harley in highschool, I wore either a half-shell, or a full-face, depending on weather, a fashionable leather jacket, when the weather permitted, and gloves. I never went down thankfully, but I was never really protected. When I put the seca on the road, I was determined to wear full gear no matter the conditions. After a while, I don't feel right wearing any less. It's just like a seatbelt, uncomfortable at first, but then you feel like you can't drive without it.

Turns out, that was a good decision. When I went down at 40-50 mph, I sprained my wrist AND THAT'S IT!!!! The textile pants were shredded, the boots popped a few seams, but I was OK (helmet looks like it didn't even hit the ground, but I'm still glad I was wearing it).

I feel that choosing not to wear gear is a fool's gamble, influenced by the brain's inability to accurately judge risk.

 

Re: NTSB - Ins. Co.'s Lobbyists Pushing For MANDATORY Helmet

I am a new rider. I've had a M class for 9 weeks and a bike for 7 of that 9. I am a noob but I have put over 2K on my bike in that time. One thing they stressed at the MSF class was riding with proper gear all the time. I have heard the arguments against it. It is hot, uncomfortable, takes away from the enjoyment of riding, it is a hazard unto its own, etc. I know three people who have been injured in life altering ways from bike crashes. One lost a leg, one lost an arm and one is brain damaged. To this day all of them wish they had worn proper equipment. Would it have saved them? Maybe. maybe not but it would have shifted the odds in their favor. Personally I have at this moment a helmet, jacked with armor elbows and padding on the back, kevlar and leather gloves, boots, tri-tex pants with armor in the knees and hips. I've spend under 400.00 but smart shopping on line for my equipment new. I do not ride without any of it. I realize later this summer it is going to be 100 + when I leave work. I have a choice that day ride the bike wear the gear or drive my car with air conditioning.

Personally, I can't understand how people ride with the half helmets and sunglasses on. I get several bug smashing in to my face shield every ride, I can't imagine a beetle or cecadia slamming in to my face at 55 MPH.

I have personally grown rather fond of having skin on my body. I am hoping if I take a slide, that my gear will help me keep my skin and reduce the over all damage done to my body. Having nothing on a half helmet, shorts, tennis shoes, and a t-shirt seems to me a first class ride to skin graphs, infection and plenty of pain and suffering. And for me not worth the risk.

At the MSF class the instructor talked about risk. How much risk are you willing to take? Personally I want minimize the risk as much as possible. Gear is your only protection from the hard road surface and the only way to have a barrier between your skin and that road.


Of course my opinion(s) and 3.00 will get you a cup of coffee at your favorite coffee shop!

 

First, I'll say that I wear a full face helmet.

now for my rant... I'll keep it short.

If I don't wear one what's the fine going to be? Higher or lower than the "penalty" for not having health insurance? (I have insurance I'm arguing a point) Why don't they just come to my door and take the rest of my money they didn't steal from the pay check and let me live how I want.

If I want to risk my brain being splattered on the pavement, my choice. You can die at home of a heart attack cowering in your basement from fear of everything or you can live your life.

Life's a terminal condition, everybody dies - fact.

I also find it ironic that those politicians who normally argue for these types of laws are the same ones who are perfectly fine with killing babies before they are born.

 

My nephew was hit by a cager on Chicago. The cager was drunk and cross the double line. They both were not going fast 15-2o mph. My nephew fall and the only injury he had was a blow on the head when he hit the ground. He is death! Chicago has no law for helmet. Many times I told my nephew to wear a helmet.

Do I wish Chicago had a helmet law? yes!
I live in WA. Do I feel the law is telling me to wear a helmet. YES does that offend me NO!! I am mature enough to know whats better for me and if sometimes I behave like a kid and want to no wear a helmet and uncle sam come and tell me YOU HAVE TO!! Well I guess I have to thank him.

I still miss my nephew a lot.

Now lokking at this in a positive was is good because if you choose to not wear a helmet and you die then somebody is going to use your organs. I hope you all bikers are organ donors.

Just my two cents.

 

Re: NTSB - Ins. Co.'s Lobbyists Pushing For MANDATORY Helmet

I don't think it should be government mandated to wear safety gear at all, only it should be the logical choice if you want to increase your chance of less serious injury in case of a spill.

I think it comes down to acceptable risk for the person on the bike. Me personally I'll wear the gear. Other people are free to opt out. It is their choice. Not mine or the government's to make for them.

I think most states require a helmet of some sort. A few like Texas are helmet optional. And I am sure many people ride without helmets or would if not required, but for me it is not a risk I'd take. I like my brain where it is in my skull.

Yes I agree you can die at anytime for any reason. I agree along a long enough time line everyone's chances for survival is zero. But most people have a line they will not cross when it comes to putting ones self at risk. Each person who gets on a bike needs to decide for themselves what is acceptable risk. riding no gear, some gear or full... Up to you, and your risk level comfort zone.

 

The problem is this: Every time some numbnuts wearing minimal or no gear at all crashes, somebody has to pay the hospital bills.

Unfortunately, a lot of these very same folks are also not insured to the extent necessary, if at all. Or maybe they are, so the cost gets passed on to everyone else buying insurance in that State; if not it falls to the taxpayers. This becomes prohibitively expensive very quickly.

Until we, as a society, become callous enough to say "you crashed without a helmet, you pay your own way or lay there and die" then the ONLY viable solution is to mandate helmet use. Yes it sucks. But it also sucks that some people are too stupid to wear helmets; and unfortunately, there are a lot of them. Hence the issue, and necessarily heavy-handed solution.

You don't want helmet laws? Then take it up with the people TRULY responsible: Every idiot who won't wear a helmet unless forced to do so. If everyone were smart enough to wear a helmet, we wouldn't need a law.

But remember the bottom line. It has nothing to do with freedom of choice and everything to do with... money.

 

Bigfitz, Just to add to your cooment. It is not a right to ride/drive on the road, It is a privilage. ( for those who did not know ) So, do it resposably regardkless of what the law says.

 

I wear a 3/4 HJC w/shield and have taken to wearing leather gloves.
Florida is an "optional, with Ins" State, but it just makes sense to wear a helmet. The shield is a bonus for the bugs.

But - I can't wear a jacket or armored pants, and that has everything to do with the heat from May to October. We're not talking a little sweat, we're talking becoming COMPLETELY soaked, even your socks.

And I know, the concrete is coarser than 10 grit sandpaper.

 

You can always get your skin back but when your brain is gone it means is gone. Brainless!

 

Re: NTSB - Ins. Co.'s Lobbyists Pushing For MANDATORY Helmet

I'm not so sure that the ability to travel on public roads is a PRIVILEGE, which is really where the whole argument starts. The confusion (intentional or otherwise) between RIGHTS and PRIVILEGES is an important distinction in regards to the concept of FREEDOM (as opposed to something such as slavery, servitude, or serfdom):

All that being said, I agree that although it's a "thrill" to ride w/o a helmet, and certainly within one's rights AT LAW to do so, only people with very primitive mental powers will do so, and thus risk losing even those at a moment's notice, whether due to their "fault" or not.

 

Mi point of view: traveling is a right. Driving ( responsible ) still a privilage.

 

Re: NTSB - Ins. Co.'s Lobbyists Pushing For MANDATORY Helmet

That's the best arguement for not mandating it. Thin the herd a bit, hopefully before they breed.

 

Knees in the breeze and a sh*t eatin' grin...
Just can't see my grin with a full face on But,
It's there.

 

Re: NTSB - Ins. Co.'s Lobbyists Pushing For MANDATORY Helmet

Children are limited in their decision-making ability and are, in essence, the "property" and responsibility (legally) of the parents....in effect, they are "wards of the state (parents)". Humans of a certain age (below 18 or 21, depending) basically do not have the full compliment of legal rights that adults do.

The intrusion of force or witholding of rights via the use of the concept of "privilege" to supposedly free (and free-choice) adults makes them, in effect, children once again, and wards of the state. In the days of yore, this was common practice, where humans were considered actual, legal "property" of others (indenture or slavery) or of the state (serfdom or prisoner).

Some people are quite content with that situation. Word has it that many of the slaves of Egypt didn't want to leave, either, after Moses secured their release and FREEDOM from the pharoah......

 

People like that are the reason sane, law abiding citizens say to "thin out the herd". Sorry to say, but I really don't care what happened to him. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he didn't die, but if he hadn't been driving like a DUM8@SS, he never would have gotten hurt.

I've ridden without a helmet (in Iowa) and I've ridden with a 3/4 bucket (very young) and I've used a full face helmet (still do). My feeling is: if they are going to make me wear a helmet, why not wear something that's going to save you? Makes sense to me.

And as far as people not wanting to wear the gear "because it's hot" I call bulls**t. I raced motocross for years, always wore full face helmet, goggles, heavyweight jersey, riding gloves, chest protector, knee braces, padded riding pants, boots, thick heavy socks (to soak up the sweat from my feet), all while riding very hard for 30-45 minutes at a time in 100* weather.

So wearing protective clothing while you are sitting on your butt cruising down the road at 60MPH is nowhere NEAR "too hot".

 

I was still in school when the helmet law was introduced in Ontario. At that time I vowed that I would never be forced to wear one. That was easy for me as I didn't yet ride. In 1970 I started and had witnessed the results of several accidents and so was quite willing to wear one. I have a full and an open face, my wife has full face, my eldest son is in Kenya and starting to ride (will buy a helmet here), my youger son has a full face and an open face.

I came to the conclusion that it was in my best interests in 1969 when a friend hit a horse that had wondered onto an unlit road at night. The horse was dead, John's bike was bent, his leathers scraped, his helmet cracked. He was unhurt.

I think protective gear is important and always pointed this out to my sons as they grew. They wear the gear because my wife and I instilled that they should think of the worst that can happen in any situation, and protect themself as best they can. That doesn't mean live in a box, just have fun and manage the risks.

Although we have the law here, it really doesn't matter, we would protect ourselves. Its common sense, although common sense isn't as common as one would think.

 

Although I always wear a full face helmet and always will, I am totally opposed to being MANDATED to wear a helmet by the law. In my opinion, it should be optional and reflected in your insurance and associated insurance rates. It would work like this: When you buy insurance, you state if you will ALWAYS wear a helmet or not. If you choose to NOT always wear a helmet you pay more to account for the additional costs associated with head injury. If you chose you will ALWAYS wear a helmet and are in an accident without a helmet, you pay for your own medical care for head injuries. If you cannot pay, you simply do not get the care. If you die, that was your choice. THAT is liberty with the associated responsibility left up to the choice of the individual.

jmd_forest

 

You've never crashed have you?

 

Good Question! I was fortunate enough to realize the senseless SUFFERING that I would go through, trying to heal after a motorcycle accident. Some said that skin grows back, but realize ALOT of skin can be lost. People die from that. Bleed out. You stay in the hospital, risking infection. If you make it, you'll have suffered for MONTHS. Scarred horribly. It's not just skin, it's muscle, fat, bone. Women have the breasts ground off, men can lose large amounts of anatomy.

Not to mention the impact damage from the fall. It's simple fizzics. In the best accident scenario, you have potential energy (mgh, h=height of your CG), and kinetic energy (1/2mv^2). You HAVE to dissipate that somehow. Gear can do that, leaving your joints, cranium, and skin intact.

I'll spend over $200 replacing the gear I lost in my accident 3 weeks ago. I have good insurance, so my x-rays on my wrist won't cost me much. Heck, even most of the hospital care would have been covered if I wasn't wearing gear. And I probably would have survived (long slide, no impact). But I wouldn't have gone to work a day later. I'm almost healed up, and when I get back from a trip next week, I'll finish up one of my other bikes and ride. And I'm getting rain gear and will be more careful in inclement weather (and won't try to beat the rain).

What shocks me, is that I go to work, and I've got people TELLING ME that if it was them, in the same accident, they wouldn't have faired as well. THEY KNOW IT BECAUSE THEY DON'T WEAR ENOUGH GEAR. Yet I've only been able to convince one out of maybe 4 people that ATGATT is worth it. And he's a new rider. It's not because they cling to their FREEDOM, it's because their brain just can't wrap around the REALITY of those injuries, so they IGNORE it. There is a problem with that, and I don't like mandates as much as the next guy, but it's not acceptable.

 

But I DON't ignore it. I understand the physics. at 140 MPH you will slide more than 1/4 mile if you don't hit something. Doesn't sound survivable without gear.

And I crashed 2 times, in parking lot follies, at low speeds, in 70,000 miles of riding. Lots of dirt bike crashes too, but those don't count.
And I don't scrape pegs anymore. I used to. Too much sand here and there.

 

I'm all about "bodily autonomy". I don't want anyone telling ME what to do with my body. This applies to self defense, as well as other controversial matters involving the gov making choices about one's own body.

HOWEVER.

I've been racing since 1973 (I'm 50 .. born in 1960). Wearing a helmet is in my DNA at this point. I feel "odd" without a lot of gear when I ride. I got called something like an "Agatt" or some such fekking label last week. Whatever. Call me whatever you like, just don't call me John Doe at the morgue. "The Hood" as saved my dum ass more times than I can remember.

I live in Arizona .. no helmet laws yet. Yes, the feeling is quite unique. But it ain't worth brain damage for. I lost a friend to a no helemt crash in 1981. My grandfather died on one of those "mankillah" Suzuki two stroke triples in the late 60's .. no helmet (but to be fair, now that I think of it a helmet probably wouldn't have made much difference, to be honest). And when I was a streetcop in Southeast LA in the late 80s early 90s I saw enough non-helmeted fatalities to fill a book. Over the radio we used to have a name for those guys on a GSXR wearing shorts/thongs/tank top and the chick on the back wearing a bikini top and shorts ... "Organ Donors". (Just cuz I want it said ... I was a cop out of my thrillseeking needs, not out of some political calling or whatever. I really didn't fit in with the normal mindset of the career field. Ther4e are a lot of cops out there that should have NEVER been given the public trust. It's kinda unsettling to be honest .. knowing what I know about the archetype. I left after the riots in 92 and my partner was shot in the head and murdered. Had enough!). Bla bla.

Kenny Roberts used to say "Got a $10 head .. wear a $10 helmet". I priced a new human head recently .. way out of my price range for now. So I'll go with the helmet instead for the time being.

I wear one, but I don't have any grumbles about those that don't. Just don't give me crap because I do. As for a law about it? Wrong!

As for the political end of this thing. Answers sound easy from the armchair quarterback's point of view .. I sit there a lot. But to be honest, I wouldn't want ANYTHING to do with trying to come up with the *right* answers for a nation of 350 million. It's far too diverse to be able to get it right for everyone. Of that I've no doubt. I would not want the job of Pres. Not in a day! I'd try way too hard and crew it ALL up for everyone in an attempt to make everyone happy. No way .. I'd screw that up so bad it isn't funny. Hell I can hardly manage my OWN life let alone try to manage 350M!

Wear one if you please. Or not ... but don't ask the taxpayers to fix you up on our dime if you eat it! Sounds fair enough, no?

 

Re: NTSB - Ins. Co.'s Lobbyists Pushing For MANDATORY Helmet

All in all simply it is about personal choice and how much risk is acceptable to that person. Personally I like my skin on my body not on some road. I like my brain in my skull and I like being able to walk/talk and generally be a functional human. Now some people choose to risk it all, no helmet or any gear that is up to them. I personally don't agree with their choice but it is theirs to make and I hope they have donor cards. Motorcycles are risky enough with gear. Cell phones and whatever have made the roads 10 X more dangerous than in the past not only for motorcyclist but for other cagers as well. Bottom line should the government tell people they 'have' to wear helmets? No! is the short answer. But people should not expect the government to pay their medical bills after such an accident.

One a side note. I was in my car driving with a friend a few days ago. He mentioned that I was a driving even more defensively than I had in the past. I told him ride a bike your out look will change drastically about driving. I think by riding a bike and that forcing me to be more aware of the road and what is going on has made me a better driver. I've lost that straight line view of most car drivers.

 

i hear some yoyo in PA wants to have a sticker on your plate or something, basically you pay more to ride without a helmet, in the end it's all about $

 

I personally am starting to use more and more gear the more I read. Granted Im currently unemployed but my bike is my only way around town so I went to iron pony and got a leather jacket with back,shoulder, and elbow padding and a nice new helmet for 150 and I have like 150 dollars to my name now. But i say its money well spent. I wear everything I got even though the temps here are 100 degrees this week and as soon as I get another job I plan to get pants, boots and hard knuckle gloves. Im young and can tend to ride a little on the quick side.We have a rule in ohio which states you must wear a helmet for your first year of having your license. I always see harley guys, no shirt no helmet shorts and sandals and I just shake my head