is it possible to put a kick start

I want to put a kick start on my xj750 does anyone know if its possible? ??

 

If you are a millionaire or a wizard in the following arts of metallurgy, mold making, foundry, machining and mathematics.

To explain, you would have to redesign the engine cases, you would need complex mathematical formulas, these would help you figure out what the gear ratios for the kick start gear and idler would be not to mention the geometry that is required to properly place the shafts and bearings and shims and seals.

Then you would need a foundry and molds to cast the new cases, then a machine shop to carve the new parts into what you need. Is it possible? yah, but definetly not at all worth pondering. One question come to mind... WHY? If you want to kick start somethin' get an old Harley.

 

Haha oh man why can't I be rich haha. But yeah I just wanted to do something a lil different with mine. But thanks for the advice

 

I'm with you TA2, I like kick-starting my bikes. Pushing a button just isn't the same. Back in the day, when they were all kickers, a guy took pride in being able to start his bike in any weather in one or two kicks which showed that it was well tuned. Now, I hear guys leaning on their starters to the point of smoke yet they have no idea what they are doing to their windings....or how to tune their bikes!

jeff

 

I'm researching an alternative to electric starting - -

start me up

 

Ok,Ok, I get what you guys are looking for, and why you are looking for it. But I get the very same pride from pushing my starter button for mere seconds until it fires right up. Both of my beemers had a kick starter, and they were dialed in so good that I didn't even need to go full stroke on the kick to start them. And yes I too miss the days when it was common to see some poor hog rider repeatedly jumping up and down on his kick starter, now that's entertainment!

 

thanks JeffK you know what i mean, im going to do more research in it and find a way to toss a kick starter on the xj, ive already done quite a bit to my bike, ineed to post pics, but yeah im going old school with it.

 

TtR, that's something that my son would find "cool as heck"......he's a lot like his dad LOL

 

Unfortunately, because of the way the engine drives the clutch and the clutch drives the trans, I don't know where in the "drivetrain" you would be able to engage a kickstart gear that would have enough "advantage" ratio-wise to spin the motor fast enough to fire it.

The biggest challenge is the fact that the trans is "buried" in the cases; it's not like a pre-unit Britbike (or even a "unit" Triumph) with a separate transmission.

Good luck; let us know if you figure someting out, even theoretically.

 

Let me make this perfectly clear, the short answer is NO. I'm sorry if the answer is disappointing, but it's just not possible due to the impracticalities involved.

 

Hey, you never know.

 

some bikes had both kick and electric, i think there would be enough room in the clutch cover to bolt on a fake kick lever, and a switch so when you folded the foot part out it hits the starter
you don't really want to have to kick it, do you?
or you could take out the starter and make something that goes in the hole with a kicker on the end, they made bikes with left kickers too.
or a model T crank maybe

 

No electric starter here; I consider it an anti-theft device. If you don't know how to properly kick-start a big twin, you'll never get it lit.

Mine starts on the first kick, still. Note kick starter lever attached directly to transmission. (Note large distance between engine and transmission.)

 

Oh come on who doesn't miss cranking on a kick starter till you're tired and then jumping up for leverage and missing with your foot but finding the lever with your shin! Timeless painful fun.

Theoretically (cause forget practically) where the current starter engages would seem the only place you could go to, but you would have to make the electric un-engage & you would need some serious gearing to create enough spin - don't know where those gears would go or how you would seal it all up. hmmm...well not impossible but P.D.Near.

Isn't this a little bit like wanting to replace your disc brakes with drums?

 

Hmmm. Must have been that Honda. I've never had that problem myself; but there is a certain knack to lighting up a British twin (or a single with compression release, for a whole NEW level of fun.)

I have to agree though, due to the design it wouldn't really be practical on any of the shaft-driven XJs. It might be slightly more feasible on the 550/600 (chain primary) series motors.

But it would cost 3X what the bike is worth, if not more.

 

I LOVE your Norton Fitz. Is it all stock? I found out the other day that my dad's isn't. He put in electric start (said it is 100% worth the cost, tho i kinda like the idea of kick starting too) hes got a europen front end too. and the rear fender is off of something else.

 

My Norton is almost completely stock and original except for things like the rear shocks and other teeny details.

Electric start wasn't something that was "added" the Nortons came with it for 1975, the last year the Commando was made. Unless he swapped the motor, primary and trans, it had to have been a '75. Mine is a '74, the last year for pure kick starting and right-hand shift. My bike is a very early '74, so it incorporates a lot of "officially" 1973 parts, (including the "good" head with bigger valves and intake ports.) And the cool mufflers.

*** forum courtesy tip: When quoting somebody who has a picture in their post, knock out the "" so the picture doesn't get re-posted in the quote.***

 

Well for once I get to teach the master a lesson.

In the early 90's when my dad picked this bike up, he was in his favorite parts shop in Winnipeg, Manitoba... Robin's Motorcycle Sales talking to the old man who ran the place about his Norton. The guy told him that he had an Electric start conversion kit for it. So he picked it up and installed it. It should still work today.

Im sure this isn`t the EXACT kit that he bought, but it should follow the same idea.

http://www.oldbritts.com/starter.html

And thanks for the courtesy tip. Sorry bout`that

 

The kick starter on a BMW, until it was eliminated in 1975, was attached to the tranny as well and it was impossible to knock your shin with that design.

Wait a minute! STOP THE PRESSES! I may have just thought of a solution...
1. Remove the electric starter.

2. Using the pinion gear from the starter and mount it to the end of a sturdy shaft which is long enough to extend out from the left of the engine.

3. Attach or weld shaft supports to the case where the starter used to be mounted. The new kick start gear would engage with the starter clutch.
( I can't believe I didn't think of this sooner)

4. At the operator end there would have to have a ratchet that's spring loaded and the foot lever and pedal.

I take it all back, this is the way it could possibly be done. You would have to ascertain what direction the starter turns; CW you would kick rearward, CCW you kick forward and you would have to have the ratchet machined accordingly.

 

;^)

 

Wow. Buncha clever Canadians; I'd honestly never seen that one before. Unfortunately it entails way too much in the way of mods to the stock bike for my way of thinking with the belt-primary conversion and all.

But it sure is neat and tidy for the Commando modding crowd (lots of single Mikuni conversions out there too.) And it probably actually works, unlike the factory e-start.

I was talking stock parts; I stand corrected.

 

Well he never said it was easy or cheap.

And I`m with you on this one. I like stock WAY better on those super cool old bikes. And there is nothing wrong with a good ol' fashioned kick start

 

Another little problem is - the TCI Brain Box MISSES the first 2 possible spark events ON PURPOSE to spin-up the motor. Your kick throw would have to be geared for at least 2 revolutions (I think).

A cold start would require many kicks to wet-out the Enrichment Circuit, and we don't have an accelerator pump for a quick shot of gas.

2 Thumbs down.

 

I've been working on the details in my head... at the pinion end of the shaft, a simple disk made by a machinist would fit into the starter opening.

This disk would have an o-ring to seal the O.D. just like the electric starter and I see a pressed on sealed bearing for the shaft that would go inside the disk.

The shaft support at the other end would make use of the starter mounting bolt holes to locate a machined piece of aluminum that would be bushed or bearinged.

The shaft would have to be machined at the lever end for splines and a suitable kick lever found to mount to the splines, and a method for limiting kick travel incorporated. As for the 2 revolution thing, I suppose a 2 kick minimum would have to due.

I think this mod could be done for less than $500.

There is no need for any internal mods, the gear at the end of the shaft comes from the starter and should mesh with the starter clutch idler gear just fine if the disk is machined correctly.

 

I gotta agree with TIME on this idea; you'd have to have it geared to get at least 2~3 revolutions of the crank; in doing so you'd lose your "mechanical advantage." Plus there's no way to "prime" the enrichment circuits.

 

If this thread is still active... did I mention that all this is dependent on the direction the starter spins? I suppose it could be kicked forward instead of backward. As far as mechanical advantage, I have no clue as to how much torque would be required to spin the engine fast enough to start.

 

Instead of venturing into The Twilight Zone, ... the correct answer should very simply have been:

No.
The option to add a Kick-starter is not offered in the Engine's design.

 

I said that. I just used more words.

 

That's the main reason I wasn't interested in certain models back years ago, because kick starters weren't an option anymore. I guess I never had confidence in electrics back then. But as the years went by, it was inevitable that there would be no kick staters on the newer bikes, so I've since evolved.
Just like when fuel injected cars came out, I wan't interested becuase of the newer technology would keep me from doing my own repairs. But now I own several fuel injected vehicles and although they do run very well, I still would like to be able to tinker on them without having to go back to school to learn all the computer mumbo-jumbo. Guess I'm still old school at heart.

 

I was thinking about this, to get 2 revolutions on the crank from a kick lever that rotates 120* you need a 6:1 INCREASE built into the mechanism somewhere. This is in addition to any gear reduction that's already in the starter chain/sprockets (tooth count).

But also on my point of the TCI skipping the first 2 sparks, this feature most likely would RESET every time the motor stops spinning, as opposed to using the first kick to "count" and the next "ready to go". (I'm somewhat guessing here)

 

ta2jerry3 asked if it was possible to kick start an XJ, at first I was sure that it could not be done. But then by using my IMAGINATION, I did find a way to MECHANICALLY, offer up the possibility of making it happen. That's all, I wasn't going into the little details that MAY turn out to shoot down this idea.
SO THE ANSWER TO TA2JERRY3'S QUESTION IS YES, IT IS POSSIBLE, BY GOING THROUGH THE STARTER OPENING, AT MODEST COST, TO KICK START AN XJ.

Whether or not it works is another issue.

 

So the answer is NOT "yes" it's "maybe, IF this theory works."

It may be possible, by going through the starter opening, to turn the motor over. Whether that translates into actually kick starting it is still a matter of theory and apparently still open for discussion.

I guess a better answer might be "it's theoretically possible, maybe."

 

hay Steve, read my post on the first page, great minds think alike

 

That's what I should have said Fitz, I stand corrected. I have to apologize, yet again, POLOCK, as it turns out was the first of us to suggest going through the starter. I didn't see it, (at least consciously) in his post when I put forth my idea. But, while Polock did have the idea, it was I who put for the the basic details of how it may possibly work. Sorry Polock. Since we're going on about old school... anybody ever think about changing beck to mechanical breaker points?

 

No, you're good. This is all theory, we already know it's not genuinely economically feasible.

We have nothing better to do, it's snowy/rainy/cold out (bite me Steve, don't even go there) and our bikes are all put down for the season.

Yes, you could physically replace the starter with a kicker mechanism of some sort. But whether or not it could be geared so anybody but the Governator (sorry, non-USA members, that's Arnold Schwarzenegger) could actually kick it hard enough to spin the motor to life is the challenge. It might be able to be overcome, but---

The other issue is "replace."

It would be cool to have both; I'd have to keep the electric. Getting the bike started is simply a means to an end (a running motor) I'm all for the easiest way possible.

 

it woud be cool to have both though, but kicking from the left side woud be weird to me.

 

Just swap the engine out for an engine that has kickstart already in it. Make it a unique mod, and a whole lot easier to fabricate mounts.

Dave

 

The Austrian Death Machine! I need your boots, your clothes and your motorcycle

 

Time, how did you ever figure out that two revolution thing?
do they still put pull ropes on outboard boat motors?

 

A kick start works on a quadrant gear & spins the mill much faster than the s/motor.

 

i thought to test a ignition pickup you passed a screwdriver over it and got spark......

 

I would only consider a mod that has at least one redeeming feature.

Changing to points would be a totally negative mod.

 

Sounds like an awful lot of work for a kick start. As long as you have a good battery and starter why spend all that money machining cases and gears and hoping you got everything correct so nothing brakes when your kicking it. Wouldn't be a good thing to get it started with the kick start and a piece of aluminum falls in and ruins the motor.

 

Another downside is the fact you are removing the electric starter.

Not to mention how painful it would be if (or when) the starter clutch skips

 

Dark, what's so hard about removing a starter, after the cable is removed, pull 2 bolts out and pull straight back( a 5 minute job ). As far as a slipping starter clutch, just have an adequate lever stop installed on the down side( no pun intended ).

 

The downside of not having and electric starter, is not having an electric starter.

As for a slipping starter clutch, it depends on how much force is required. If it was easy to kick over it would be fine if it slipped, but if it was a brute to kick over you could hurt yourself.

Not being a single cylinder it should be easy to kick over though.

 

Ahh, kickstarting singles...

So here's a 17-year old Fitz, way too sure of himself, riding his buddy's uncle's BSA Victor 441 single that had been kitted to a 600, with NO knowledge of how to properly start a big single or even what that other lever on the bars was for.

I had jumped on the bike when it was running, and hadn't been paying attention when it was started.

Stopped by my house, and shut the bike off. Did my thing, came back out and jumped on the bike.

Switched on the ignition, and jumped on the kickstarter with all the force I could bring to bear. There was a loud "pop" when the big thumper kicked back and launched my 120lb self over the handlebars and against the garage door upside down like a rag doll.

That was when I learned about the concept of a compression release.

 

It would probably bo more practical to install a recoil starter (pull cord) like your lawn mower! You'd need pretty heavy duty cord however.

 

haha! yeah Fitz I had a GN 400. I learned alot on that one, I was 19, GREEN, and free.
My shin remembers that bike too!

 

That info is either deeply buried in Chacal's vast info, or it came from a motorcycle magazine's archives.

There's a joke about old Mercury outboards - - to pull start them, the rope is 30 feet long and the guy runs down the dock.