1. Some members were not receiving emails sent from XJbikes.com. For example: "Forgot your password?" function to reset your password would not send email to some members. I believe this has been resolved now. Please use "Contact Us" form (see page footer link) if you still have email issues. SnoSheriff

    Hello Guest. You have limited privileges and you can't "SEARCH" the forums. Please "Log In" or "Sign Up" for additional functionality. Click HERE to proceed.

Cylinder not firing?

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by backlash1818, Dec 26, 2011.

  1. backlash1818

    backlash1818 Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    I just got my carbs tuned using a home-made carb tuning tool, whic btw, was cheap and easy to make, and works friggin GREAT! However, I still have some running issues. After letting it idle for a while, it has a slight up-and-down movement, very subtle, but if you pay attention it's pretty easy to catch. So i drove it up and down the road by my house for a while, stopped, licked my finger, and hit each one of the pipes.

    From the seated position, left to rigt, the first three sizzled, but not the last one. I suspect that the cylinder isn't firing properly, but I haven't taken this beast apart yet and am somewhat hesitant to do so until I know what I'm looking for. I don't have any compression gauges and was wondering if there is a better way to test if the cylinder is firing than spitting on it....Any and all ideas would be appreciated. The only other clue I have is while I was riding it I had it in second gear and slammed the throttle down, once it got to 6,000 rpms, it bogged down and wouldn't go any more...not sure what that means....

    I live in a christian-based drug rehab, and the maintenance guy used to be a harley mechanic. He was helping me with my last bike, but it died, so I got this one. Even with only 3 out of 4 cylinders firing ( I think ) it's impressive. However, I was looking at getting a 2002 Harley sportster, 850cc, and made the mistake of telling him that. He was completely against me getting this bike, and insists on telling everyone I have no idea what I'm doing, it's never going to run properly, etc.

    The people that had it before me by-passed the vacuum part of the petcock and installed a shutoff valve straight from the tank to the carbs. I forgot to turn it off the first night I had it here and it flooded the carbs and leaked out.

    He insists that it was being modified to race and probably had some remote airplane jet fuel or some such put in it, which he says would make the rubber tip of the float valve swell, causing the flooding. I tried to tell him it was because its a gravity powered gas line now, and if you leave it on all night, of course it's going to flood the carbs and leak out.

    I'd like to know if I'm right, if anyone has an opinion I'd be willing to hear it. I'd really really like to get this thing running perfect so I can show him the best bikes do NOT have to be Harleys, and I don't need his cranky old ass to fix this thing.

    Oh, btw, he keeps telling everyone my bike is a fire hazard and will possibly explode....so I have to park it in the middle of our huge backyard at the moment.....f***ing asshole....
     
  2. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,843
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Massachusetts, Billerica
    Run the "Simplified Test" for Spark.
    Undo the Plug Cap and Plug-in a Spare Plug.
    Ground the Spare Plug to the Head and look for the Spark during the Test with the Engine running.

    If the Plug misfires with the 1/4 Coil plugged into the 1/4 Connection from the Wiring Harness ...
    Swap the Coil Connections and see if the 4 Hole Fires and the 3 Hole misses.

    (1/4 into 1/4 ::: 2/3 into 2/3 = 4 Hole missing .... Swap for test)
    Test:
    (1/4 into 2/3 ::: 2/3 into 1/4 for testing:
    4 Hole fires 3 Hole misses: = Coil, Wire Cap related problem.
    4 Hole miss 3 Hole fires: = Carb, Cyl or Valve related. Ck compression.

    Compression Quick Test:
    Thumb, Dowel, Heavily taped handle to block Spark Plug Hole
    Crank Engine and see if finger / object is forced-off Plug Hole.
    Yes = Incouraging
    No = Bad news requiring further testing.

    Good Luck.
     
  3. MercuryMan

    MercuryMan Active Member

    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Springdale, NWA
    What model bike do you have? You can put this info into your signature line, and use location feature so if anyone is close they can help you.

    The gravity flow of fuel will only go to your carbs and 'normally' be stopped by the float valve when your float rises and seals it shut, but it's unlikely that 'airplane' fuel or any other such notion caused your problem. More likely you have a sticking float or your float needle valve isn't seating properly and this could be caused by multiple reasons-dirty carbs most likely or float valve assembly may have issues. Your going to need to pull them off and do a complete cleaning/inspection. If you can restore your petcock to working order (vacuum feed) I would do that as well.

    Have you changed your oil/filter since it flooded? You probably have fuel in your oil from overflow going into the crankcase-change it ASAP. Best way of checking your cylinders is the heat check. Compression test is a good way to determine health ($20 at Auto store for tester), but if you had decent power on 3 it's likely that compression isn't the problem. From previous experience I'd say your float level is set wrong or your pilot circuit is clogged on your cold one (little or no fuel is reaching it). Carb mods can cause problems too like pod filters w/o rejetting.

    Your 'maintenance guy' is wrong about these bikes-they run just fine and are more reliable than any Hog could ever be, although Hogs are silly simple so they require less intelligent mechanics. These older classic SJM's suffer from clueless previous owners who don't ask questions before they screw stuff up. So you're already ahead of the game and will prove him wrong in no time. You seem to have a good grasp of mechanics and just need to do the proper maintenance and your bike will be fine.

    Your bike would only be a fire hazard if his 'cranky old ass' goes over and smokes nearby! You could always drain and remove the tank so he couldn't bitch and get it back where it belongs while you work on your carbs.

    There will be more advice to follow and it's tried and true-if you follow it your bike will be up and running and you can ride past his old ass and smile! Keep asking any questions you might have and use this site to research what you need to do. You can use the 'search' tool and read through tutorials about maintenance and carb cleaning. Enjoy!

    PS - sounds like the rehab needs to work on the old cranky one and give him some Christian values. He should be encouraging you-not shooting you down-I.M.H.O.
     
  4. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,843
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Massachusetts, Billerica
    What you'll read, here, in the posts to follow will all be good advice,, but can be a bit discouraging.

    You've got some work to do!
    You'll need to set your priorities and find a place to work, indoors.

    I'll give you: Job-1!
    Before you start doing anything which you'll read needs to be done to get you up-and-running, ... GET A MANUAL!

    Preferably, a Genuine Yamaha Workshop Manual --> specific <-- to your bike.
    Other Manuals will do but cover material you don't need that might make things confusing.

    The Manual will have a schedule of Maintenance you need to perform.
    All the items on the list will need to get done.
    Having the BOOK will guide you through the process.
    Plus:
    Teach you how.
    Show you how.
    Answer every question which may arise.

    Get your Signature Section filled-out with Thumbs on the bike.
    Those who are here to help you need the following information as your signature.

    <>Year<>Model<>Total Miles<>Stock or list Mods<>Location<>

    Also use the Location feature.
    You might find a Member is your neighbor and can offer to help.
     
  5. darkfibre

    darkfibre Member

    Messages:
    671
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    Fix the carb thats flooding when the taps left on first, as there is a chance that may also fix your running problem.

    There are also some recommended maintenance and safety items that should be checked before riding, but i'm sure you will find them on here, they seem to be repeated every 11th post.
     
  6. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    21,283
    Likes Received:
    418
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Rural SE Michigan 60 miles N of Motown
    Some basic intelligent logical troubleshooting might help, as would knowing what bike you're working on; I couldn't find it.

    First off, a cylinder requires compressed fuel air mixture and spark to run.

    Compression testers are cheap; you can pick up a nice kit at AutoZone or Sears for under $30; or borrow/rent one from the auto parts.

    Start with a compression test, so we know what's going on with the motor itself.

    Then investigate your plug wire, plug CAP, etc. Since each coil fires two cylinders, only one being dead narrows it down.

    If fuel leaked out or leaked anywhere, you do need to check the crankcase for gasoline. Take the oil filler cap off and smell it; it should smell like toasty oil NOT reek of gasoline.

    Finally; the advice you've been given to get a manual is solid; you're going to need one. If all of your carbs' float valves were functioning correctly, accidentally leaving the fuel supply on overnight should NOT cause any sort of fuel leakage. While not a good idea, if the whole system is working correctly it won't cause a problem.

    You DO have carb issues; but without some further diagnosis, it's impossible to say if the cold cylinder is necessarily directly carb-related. It could be anything from ignition to carbs to a dead tight or sticking valve.

    Guessing will get you nowhere.
     
  7. tskaz

    tskaz Active Member

    Messages:
    1,878
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Saint Louis, Michigan
    [quote="backlash1818]Just got a 85 maxim 700 for 500 bucks.[/quote]



    This quote is from his other post about an electrical problem.
     
  8. backlash1818

    backlash1818 Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    changed my signature.....took a ride today, starts bogging down hard around 4k rpms....starting to think the float valve could be the issue, although my fourth pipe still doesn't get hot. hopefully i'll get some more time later to do some checks, but thank you all for your advice, its extremely useful!
     
  9. tskaz

    tskaz Active Member

    Messages:
    1,878
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Saint Louis, Michigan
    PODS......

    First thing I would do is pull the carbs and see what jets are in there, if you haven't already.
     
  10. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    21,283
    Likes Received:
    418
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Rural SE Michigan 60 miles N of Motown
    You really need to check the valves and get a compression test; if that's a "neglected motor" it could explain your problem. If you KNOW it's only running on 3 cylinders, quit riding it; all you're going to do is hurt it, it won't "heal itself."
     
  11. grunt007

    grunt007 Member

    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I guess Harley boys will never learn that there are other good machines out there. I started with a Harley as a young man-loved it, but later on I moved on to better machines. I personally think that the biggest problem with the Harley boys is that after they put all those $$$$$$$$ into their Harleys they are afraid that if the don't brag them as the best that they just may depreciate in value??? All kidding aside the Harley is a nice machine but I definitely would not say the best. Years ago I gained a great respect for the BMW's but if I ever get the time to dive into my XJ 750 Seca I can see the potential of a very fine machine there also.
    You put your Sweat into a bike and it becomes a part of you-how can a guy hate himself? grunt007, 81 Yamaha 750 SecaR
     
  12. backlash1818

    backlash1818 Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    well, I did a compression test today. Never done one before so I'm not entirely sure I did it right....

    I took all the sparkplugs out, checked the gap while I was at it. They look new and not dirty at all

    I hooked my compression tester up to each one and hit the start, got 120 psi, give or take a few, on each cyclinder, although number 2 was about about 116 or so.

    What I noticed as I took the plugs out was that there was some gas on the rim of the hole as I took it out, so I'm assuming that my carbs are indeed severely flooding.

    I've been trying to avoid taking the carbs apart, as its a fairly complicated maneuver, and there are a pretty decent amount of small parts to loose and things to mess up if your not careful.

    That being said, I'd like to check one more thing before I go that route. While I may have a float needle issue, I'm wondering if perhaps my air-fuel mixture is badly off....I have individually aspirated carbs, and my petcock has been converted to a gravity-fed hose, with a shutoff valve in-between the petcock and the carbs...I'm thinking the petcock stopped working so they did that, or they were going to convert it into a race bike but never finished

    So with the gravity-fed gas line and individually aspirated carbs, is there a chance my air/fuel level is out of wack? Or should they still not flood even if that mixture is very off?
     
  13. backlash1818

    backlash1818 Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    Oh, and thank you all for the support and help. This forum is much better than the one for my vulcan =)
     
  14. tskaz

    tskaz Active Member

    Messages:
    1,878
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Saint Louis, Michigan
    120 for the comp numbers is on the low side, but not terrible.

    However, I suspect you have fuel in the oil, which will:
    A, thin the oil and make your numbers low do to the fact that the rings aren't sealing properly.
    B, not provide adequate lubrication to run the motor, causing major engine damage.

    The fact that the plugs "look new and aren't dirty at all" leads me to think you have a lean condition, caused by, PODS which is why I suggested taking a peek at your jets inside the carbs (you will see this is a recurring theme)

    I think we have already established that you do have a float needle issue.

    The in-line fuel shut off will have no effect on your carbs IF you shut it off every time the bike is off. If fuel flows to the carbs while the bike is off, AND you have a needle valve issue inside the carbs, then yes, it will flood the carbs, engine, and crankcase.

    You have multiple issues going on. It would be best to start from square one and clean/rebuild the carbs.

    Then you need to check the valve shims, set fuel level, make sure it's running on all four cylinders, re=sync the carbs.

    Then you can start getting them jetted properly to run on those pods.

    The carbs are really not that bad.

    And you definitely need a manual.

    EDIT: oh, and if the oil has fuel in it, get it out of that crankcase before you cause more damage.
     
  15. skw1972

    skw1972 Member

    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Milton Florida
    100% SOLID advise on all counts
    just my opinion-but if I was going to add anything it would be ditch the pods and get an air box or get a big bottle of aspirin
    Regardless either way, pods or no the advise above is dead on
     
  16. backlash1818

    backlash1818 Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    So I got some oil and a new filter today, should be able to change it tomorrow sometime. I think I definitely have gas in the oil, was riding it to the store to get the oil (she's my only transportation) and went to change to 4th gear, didn't catch and revved the engine nicely. I grabbed the clutch and eased it back into 4th and she took it no problem.

    I got an extra two quarts of oil so I can do the change, let it idle for a while, then drain it and refill it again, hopefully with the idea of getting the gas out completely.

    After the oil change I'll be pulling the carbs and checking the jets and float valve. I met a guy today who is currently in school for motorcycle mechanics (MMI) and he's worked on several xj700's.

    He was going to test my generator, but the quick connect plug thing has a melted pin, so he couldn't get a connection. I'm hoping thats the problem with my battery not being charged as I ride,but I'm not sure.

    So after i change the oil and check my carbs, set the float level, ect...how do you check the valves? I've never checked valves for anything...my last bike (vn750) had HLAs (Hydraulic Lash Adjusters) which automatically adjusted your valves for you. I'm assuming I'll need some gauges of thin pieces of plastic (shims?) to check the settings properly. Also assuming that a local bike shop would have those. Although I hate doing all this assuming.

    Also, getting the carbs jetted properly for the pods was mentioned.....Does this mean I need a jet kit or something? I was kinda hoping that since the pods were already on the bike that the person who installed them hadre-jetted the carbs....then again, it looks like a half-finished,half-assed project bike anyway, so I could be wrong.

    Thanks again for all the help guys!

    P.S. No more riding till I fix the carbissue and change the oil, don't want to damage the bike any more than it already is.
     
  17. tskaz

    tskaz Active Member

    Messages:
    1,878
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Saint Louis, Michigan
    When you pull the carbs to clean them, write down the number on each jet in each carb. Reference these to the manual to see if they are the stock jets for your bike, and keep them in a safe place for future reference.

    You can never assume that a PO knew what they were doing when the touched the bike.
     
  18. skw1972

    skw1972 Member

    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Milton Florida
     
  19. tskaz

    tskaz Active Member

    Messages:
    1,878
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Saint Louis, Michigan
    And for the valve clearances you will need some basic tools, a metric feeler gauge set, and a new gasket.

    I don't have a book for the 700, but check out this post will give you a basic idea of what is involved. Your manual will give you all of the specifics.
     
  20. skw1972

    skw1972 Member

    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Milton Florida
    I'll take PO's jack s**t up for 400 alex
     
  21. tskaz

    tskaz Active Member

    Messages:
    1,878
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Saint Louis, Michigan
    And the answer is: Everything

    The question: "What is, what do I have fix that the PO screwed up?" :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
     
  22. backlash1818

    backlash1818 Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    Ok, so I took my carbs off today, took off the float bowl to check out my float needle things, and they seem fine. The tips aren't in bad shape, the have a perfect cone-like appearance without lumps or swelling, and the floats themselves seem to be alright as well...

    I also hooked my tank up to the carbs and opened the shut-off valve that was installed to replace the petcock, and only the 3rd and 4th carb are flooding, the first two leak nothing.

    Not sure whats wrong with them. I did notice that when I took the brass piece the float needles sit in out that there was a fair amount of gunk on the little slip on screen thing, looks like little tiny pieces from the stuff they coated the inside of the tank with. I'm going to try switching the floats and needles of the carbs around to see if thats what it is.
     
  23. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    21,283
    Likes Received:
    418
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Rural SE Michigan 60 miles N of Motown
    The float levels need to be properly ADJUSTED using fuel and clear tubing to "see" the fuel level inside the bowls. This procedure is outlined many times on this site, and in the manuals.

    Just because a float appears to be operating ok "statically" (when you're looking at it, dry) does NOT mean it's doing its job and shutting off completely AND at the exact proper level. The float levels have only a 3mm adjustment "window" and this is critical to how the bike runs.

    You have to "wet set" the floats as I've described; it's not something you can guess at or skip over. In the process, you'll uncover any float level issues you might be having.

    Did you find the valve adjustment "how-tos" OK?
    http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=14827.html
    http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=29209.html
     
  24. tskaz

    tskaz Active Member

    Messages:
    1,878
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Saint Louis, Michigan
    +1

    If the float is set too high it will not press the needle valve all the way into it's seat, thereby letting fuel flow through the valve constantly.

    Same concept as a "stuck float", it's actually the needle valve that sticks and doesn't seat properly to stop the flow of fuel.
     
  25. MercuryMan

    MercuryMan Active Member

    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Springdale, NWA
    That's a problem all by itself-'gunk'-can't have that in there. Also it's not from racing model airplane fuel but comes from good old regular gasoline and maybe your tank liner (in-line filter) Most gasoline now contains ethanol and should NEVER be allowed to just sit in your carbs without a stabilizer added. These carbs either need the bike to run almost every day, be stabilized, or drained. Or this will happen.

    +1 to BF advice. You can't tell just by looking at your floats if they are set right, only that they are operational. There are several good articles here about carbs, multitudes of information on-line and almost all CV carbs work the same way. So you can search and then do some research and figure out exactly how they work. It's not complicated but it does require the time.

    Your float valve seats (where the 'cone' seals it) must be totally clean and your float levels must be in the 3mm spec set wet. And since you have them off I would take your whole carb assembly to the church of clean. Do that and your home free on this issue.
     
  26. backlash1818

    backlash1818 Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    Well, I got interrupted with the whole process by my system administration job...had to set up a network printer and network auto-backup hard drive for my boss....and he has a mac, and this is a windows environment...so I didn't get to finish.

    However, I did figure out that my float levels are indeed way off, but only on the 3 and 4 carb, from left to right as if you were sitting on the bike. I adjusted the float, attached it to the tank with the proper elevation, and presto! no more hemorrhaging fuel! Tomorrow I will do the proper fuel level tests, after I clean them like an anal-retentive step-mother.

    Thank you all for the advice and help, it went a long way towards pointing me in the right direction! Can't wait to see the look on the harley guys face when I fire her up and she runs like a well oiled beast =)
     
  27. backlash1818

    backlash1818 Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    *to bigfitz52

    I did look at those, and thank you for the links, but I don't have any money right now untill school starts. I'd rather wait to start that process till I have proper tools and cash to replace anything I find that needs replacing (or anything I screw up!) But a valve adjustment is in the future, don't worry. And probably a clutch tuning as well, clutch doesn't seem to pull in enough to switch gears
     
  28. skw1972

    skw1972 Member

    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Milton Florida
    adjusted the throw on that clutch?
     
  29. backlash1818

    backlash1818 Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    don't have any clue on how to do that....only clutch I've ever touched was on a 94 sonoma, 4 cylinder stick....Before that, never saw one. I yanked the tranny, pulled the entire thing out, and replaced it. That sucked.
     
  30. backlash1818

    backlash1818 Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    So I just ordered a new stator and rectifier off ebay, love that place, so I'll be starting a new topic on the replacement of that, and put together a walkthrough with pictures if there isn't one already.
     
  31. MercuryMan

    MercuryMan Active Member

    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Springdale, NWA
    Yo backlash check out Rick's guide to your clutch-it's an easy fix.

    http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=2 ... cable.html

    Valves: I understand where your coming from-I had a 650 Nighthawk that also had hydraulic valve adjustment so no maintenance. This falsely convinced me that valve adjustment was hard. It's not bad at all.

    Just to check them couldn't be easier and you will blow old man's mind that you are doing that. Plus you don't wan't to run your mill if they are way tight(See big $$$$ fix).To check them you only need:

    -Metric socket set to remove your tank or wrench-12mm I think on yours
    -Allen wrench to loosen valve cover bolts
    -Screwdriver or Impact driver to remove left front ignition cover
    -19mm wrench to turn crank (nut found inside ignition cover)
    -Gap feeler gauge (thin metal strips to measure clearance-metric is best <$10)
    -about 1 hour of time-less after you've done it once

    These bikes are very reliable and are often called "bullet proof" because of how tough they are, but ignoring your valves is a sure way to test that reputation and make the old man say "I told you so." Plus it won't run right with valves out of spec-less power, bad fuel economy, etc. I know you probably feel like enough already! But it's kind of like going fishing without a pole-it's the first step in a properly tuned 10,000+rpm motor, so can't be skipped or you won't catch any fish...if you get me. So far in the months I've been a member of this site I have yet to see a single person who checked their valves come back and say 'guess what they were all in spec.'
     
  32. backlash1818

    backlash1818 Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    Thats exactly why I want to check them, one of the guys who replied to my posts mentioned that, and added some links to how to do it.

    I checked the links out and I like the guide, easy to follow, excellent pictures, I understood it completely, doesn't get any better than that for a guy who's never done it before.

    I dont have any feeler gauges, but I know a guy who does, he used to go to south america to fix hydro-electric generators and such, great guy, mechanical genius. It'll take some time to get the gauges, so I'm going to have to put that off for a while.

    I have noticed that my engine doesn't sound too bad, I don't hear any knocking or tapping sounds, not even slightly....Could it be too much to hope that the PO knew how to do that and did it?....

    One thing I'd like to know, however, is what the little clip thing he had in the tutorial is called. If I know the name I can find it somewhere cheap. It's the little black metal thing that clips onto the side of the camshaft holder and keeps positive pressure on the shim. Looks like something I'm gonna need!

    So today, after it warms up a little bit and I get some system administrative work out of the way, I'm going to go measure my fuel levels and make adjustments if necessary. I left the tank in an elevated position all night with the shut-off valve on (for those of you who haven't read my earlier posts, the petcock has been disabled and a gravity-fed shut-off valve installed) and no gas leaked out, so at least I know my float-level systems work, just needed adjustment.

    Once thats done, if I still have daylight and nothing else pops up, I'm going to see about the clutch adjustment mentioned above. After that, I'm hoping to put everything back on, snync my carbs again, and hopefully she'll work nicely.

    Thanks again for all your inputs, everyone's advice has been valuable and helpful!
     
  33. skw1972

    skw1972 Member

    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Milton Florida
    If you don't hear ANYTHING, not even slightly then you have tight valves. Valves that are in spec ticky tap a little. We call that the "happy valve tick"
     
  34. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    21,283
    Likes Received:
    418
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Rural SE Michigan 60 miles N of Motown
    Exactly. Quiet valves=tight valves=NOT GOOD.

    A metric feeler gauge is less than a $10 investment: http://www.tooltopia.com/kd-tools-2274. ... lebase_18u

    As for the "little clip thing" are you referring to the valve bucket holding tool? It's a Motion Pro product, also widely available, plus XJ4Ever carries them. http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/partno/08-0020

    Please note*** the "quick tip" on the MP website is completely wrong. The tool has to be CENTERED on the cam lobe to be effective, see "Part Deux" of the how-tos. "Positioned anywhere" won't get it.

    You're looking at less than $10 in "special tools" to check your clearances, and less than $20 to do the entire job (not counting parts.)

    You might want to weigh that against the cost of repairing a burnt valve or two.
     
  35. broccili

    broccili Member

    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Southern Maine
    Your bike is the same as mine, with about the same mileage, and I am doing the same thing! (When my tool finally gets here)
     
  36. backlash1818

    backlash1818 Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    Ok, so I put my carbs back on after checking my levels, and they checked out as best as i could tell. No more massive flooding or gas leaking out of the carbs.

    Now, after I did that I went to sync the carbs...and just like last time, after the yics tool is installed, and the vacum plugs are taken off the little nipple on the top of the carbs, it will only give me a reading on my carb sync tool if the choke is on, and while its running, it bumps around from idle speed to 3k rpms and back, almost cutting off....I'm worried that this is a symptom of a problem I don't know about yet....

    With the yics tool installed, and the rubber caps taken off the nipples on the top of the carbs (manual told me to do it) is it suppose to bounce around like that?

    Also, how is the bike suppose to behave with the yics tool installed?
     
  37. skw1972

    skw1972 Member

    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Milton Florida
    you only take those nipples off to hook up the sync gauges (or home made...whatever)
    you cant run the bike with those nipples just wide open.
    either put the caps back or hook up your sync device
     
  38. skw1972

    skw1972 Member

    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Milton Florida
    and if those caps are hard you may as well toss them and get new ones, make some from vac hose or something.
    When they get hard they like to leak when every thing gets up to temp.
    It'll make you nuts
     
  39. backlash1818

    backlash1818 Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    ok.....so i think i'm doing something wrong here then....there are 4 hoses that come out of the carbs and face towards the rear of the bike, thats what i've been connecting my gauge to....I'm suppose to connect to the metal nipples those caps go on? We're talking about the same metal nipple the vacuum line hooks up to from the petcock right?

    If I've been hooking my gauges up wrong this whole time I'm gonna laugh my ass off!
     
  40. backlash1818

    backlash1818 Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    I'll take a picture of my carbs tomorrow and post it, I've got to figure out what I'm doing wrong lol
     
  41. skw1972

    skw1972 Member

    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Milton Florida
    Yes, the metal nipples on the carb to engine boots (manifold) is where the vac is measured at.
    those nipples cant be left open
     
  42. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    21,283
    Likes Received:
    418
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Rural SE Michigan 60 miles N of Motown
    WHOA STOP HOLD ON.

    If your valves aren't in spec, don't even BOTHER trying to sync the carbs.

    If you didn't wet-set your floats, go back and do that while you wait for the shim tool to arrive.

    Yes, your manometer or whatever you're using to sync with attaches to the vacuum nipples (the 4 little metal spigots on the intake manifolds.) Since you'll need to read the #3 port as well, you run the bike on "PRI" for the sync process.

    The YICS tool being in place usually drops the idle; you need to make sure you compensate by bringing it back up to the recommended RPM for the adjustment. You'll need to adjust the main idle knob slightly. Once the sync is complete and the tool removed, you'll need to bring the idle back down to spec.

    BUT YOU CANNOT SYNC THE CARBS UNTIL YOUR VALVES ARE IN SPEC. You're wasting your time.

    FROM THE FACTORY MANUAL note "must" not "it would be nice:"

    [​IMG]
     
  43. backlash1818

    backlash1818 Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    Ok, well, thats pretty definitive on what to do next. Guess I'll wait for the shims. I'm going to go see if I can order a set from ebay. Don't know what I would do without you guys....oh wait, yeah I do....toast this bike and have to buy another! =D
     
  44. skw1972

    skw1972 Member

    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Milton Florida
    Dude to be honest your best bet is gonna be Chacal (Len). he'll be faster, most likley cheaper and he wont pawn off some wrong shim on you. 3 days and youll get the CORRECT shims for like 8.50 each.
    Best bet I promise
     
  45. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    21,283
    Likes Received:
    418
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Rural SE Michigan 60 miles N of Motown
    umm, yeah.

    You don't "order a set" of shims.

    Did you actually read through the procedure? http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=14827.html

    You MEASURE the valve clearances. Then, for the ones that are too tight, you REMOVE THE EXISTING SHIM, and "read" (and record) the thickness marked on the underside.

    THEN, based on the measured clearance and the currently installed shim, you decide which size shim(s) you need to order.

    YOU CANNOT TELL WHAT SHIMS YOU'LL NEED UNTIL YOU MEASURE THE CLEARANCES, GET YOUR TOOL, AND REMOVE AND READ THE EXISTING SHIMS. They come in like 20 different sizes; you have no way of knowing what's in there now until you look.

    Go back and read this carefully: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=14827.html You've missed the concept.
     
  46. backlash1818

    backlash1818 Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    no i read it, I'm just tired and swapped terms....I meant wait for my set of feeler gauges....Ordered a set of off-set tapered ones. Metric of course
     
  47. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    21,283
    Likes Received:
    418
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Rural SE Michigan 60 miles N of Motown
    Gotcha. But you still can't order shims just yet.

    And I was serious about wet-setting the floats, if you didn't you're going to have to. HAVE TO.

    That would also be a good opportunity to record all of the numbers on your JETS, because getting the bike running is only the first step. Getting it running so you can actually RIDE it is a whole other challenge we're not even to yet.
     
  48. backlash1818

    backlash1818 Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    I did wet set the floats, as well as I could without the proper connectors anyways. I ended up using this putty stuff that hardens like steel (or so it says on the package) to connect the tip of my hose connector to the bottom of the bowl-drain. It worked well enough to get a reading, but I'm going to have to find something that gives me a good connection, I don't quite trust the reading I got. However, the crabs don't flood so badly that they pour gas into my crankcase anymore, so thats a good start I guess.

    In short, I need a list of items to continue the process of getting this beast on the road.

    1. Feeler gauges
    2. Shims, after I determine whether or not I need them and what size to get.
    3. the little clip-on tool that holds the shims down so you can check clearence
    4. something to connect my hose to the bottom of my float bowl.
    5. stator (already ordered)
    6. rectifier (already ordered)
    7. numbers of my jets to make sure they're the right ones.
    8. patience and more money

    Only reason I was able to get the rectifier and stator would be thanks to e-bays bill-me-later thing, great idea btw. I should be getting paid for a web-site project here soon, so hopefully I'll be able to get back to fixing her....and please don't tell me how cheap this stuff is, I already know....I have $2.37 in pennies and nickles =p
     
  49. backlash1818

    backlash1818 Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    cancel the ordered feeler gauges, e-bay said no the the bill-me-later on that.....
     
  50. skw1972

    skw1972 Member

    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Milton Florida
    PM sent
     

Share This Page