Cylinder not firing?

For connecting the tube, I use a little plastic hose connector fitting that I either robbed from my Mity-Vac kit, or got in a $3 assortment pack at the auto parts store. All you need is something that the hose fits tightly on, that you can jam in the drain hole.

You have to do each carb individually.

Float levels are one of the critical carb adjustments that affect how the bike runs.

 

I'll figure something out, the maintenance guy (i.e. harley guy) is warming back up to me and my bike, so hopefully he's got something in the shed full of odds and ends that'll work. Guess since he noticed me going through the steps to tune/fix the bike in the right order, the right way, he changed his opinion of I know nothing and I'm just a punk kid. He doesn't know about this forum yet

 

Then dont tell him, we'll chip in and make you look like a bike wiz

 

Can't wait to see the look on his face when i'm checking valve clearances and adjusting shims (if necessary) that'll be a kodac moment for sure! lmao

Just wish there wasn't 20 valves....yikes....my vulcan only had 8...then again it was a 2-cylinder twin

 

Yea don't tell him where the sacred fire comes from, keep him guessing and amazed.

+1 to what Bigfitz says about the vacuum adapters for your carb drain hole. I got an assortment at the Auto store ($3)and it had just the one I needed. I had to cut off the wings and make it nice and smooth but that was easy. Small fuel hose and clamp and it was good to go.

Your valve tool is called 'valve shim tool' and some refer to it as the 'valve hold down tool'. When you get it use a bright light and make sure it is centered on the cam lobe perfectly, hold it there, and screw in the allen bolt which holds it to the top of the head. It has a little 'tooth' that goes down and holds only the bucket (lifter) and lets the shim pop free so you can remove it. Bigfitz details this in his write-up but I just wanted to emphasize it for you to save you the frustration of it not working-off by just a little side to side and the whole assembly will just keep coming up and pin your shim. This may sound confusing right now, but when you get there it will all make sense.

Feeler gauges are a dime a dozen there are plenty around. If you go and ask nicely, I'll bet you could borrow some from someone. Try a friendly looking mechanic in a shop that does foreign cars or motorcycles, or a neighbor with a garage. It doesn't have to be metric-they just make it easier to do.

 

WAIT WHOA STOP.

TWENTY VALVES? Is this a Maxim "X"??? Or an aircooled Max? (With only 8 valves.)

If this is a Maxim X, all of the valve clearance adjustment info we've been providing is INCORRECT.

You CHECK the valve clearances in the same manner, with a feeler gauge between the backside of the cam lobe and the bucket.

ADJUSTMENT IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. My pictorial doesn't apply.

Unfortunately, in the case of the watercooled "X" motors, the shims are little aspirin-sized (and shaped) "buttons" that live UNDER the cam follower "buckets."

Valve adjustment on an "X" motor involves reading clearances, then pulling the cam shafts to get at the shims.

So is it a watercooled bike, with a radiator and fan; or is it aircooled?

If this really is a Maxim "X" then PLEASE change your signature to prevent future confusion.

We were all assuming you had an aircooled bike because of your sig.

 

That sounds like an "X"
What part of Orlando?? I could swing by some day, PM sent.

I'm wondering if you probed the many, tiny passages hidden in your carbs with a small diameter, stiff wire strand??

Your compression check, with an "iffy" battery you would need to boost it from a non-running car or charger, AND have the throttle wide open.
If you did the compression check with throttle closed, then 120's sounds pretty good.

 

I would definitely take TtR's offer to stop over.

Best advice I can give you if it's an "X", because I don't know jack when it comes to liquid-cooled 4s.

 

The only liquid-cooled 4s I've ever wrenched on have been in cars; I thought OP had an "airhead" XJ. But I do know the differences in the motors, and they're beyond me experience-wise, as well.

 

its definitely NOT liquid cooled, no worries there....

And I ordered a stator some time ago, and it got here, and its too damn big....go figure

 

Then you would only have 8 valves to check and shims to change, one each for intake and one each for exhaust, per cylinder.

 

well, thats a relief.....so on another note, does anyone know where I could find the right stator for my bike? I'm going to check and make sure I'm not doing anything wrong on the install tomorrow when I have daylight....but I'm thinking its prolly not going to fit....If theres a specific way to install it I'd love to hear about it =)

 

XJ4Ever is your source. Top right of the page here is a link to his catalog. He ONLY sells XJ related parts and you will get the part you are looking for, it will be quality, the price is fair, and often what he sells comes with detailed instructions. You are always taking a risk with ebay.

 

Yeah, I'm usually pretty good at digging up the right part off e-bay, haven't bought a wrong part yet, and considering I already half-rebuilt a bike from 1989 before a crappy mechanic shop screwed it up (if your in florida DO NOT TAKE ANY BIKE TO FULL THROTTLE CUSTOMS!!!) I thought I would be able to get away with it.

The good news is the maintenance guy (i.e. harley guy) is cool with me again, we're buddies and such now, and he's going to look at my stator problem with me tomorrow. I somehow doubt I put it in wrong, seeing as how it just kind slides on and off, but hey you never know.

And even more good news, aside from finding this forum, theres a member that doesn't live to far from me and is willing to help! God bless the internet!

 

So it seems that I'm going to be needing an air-filter box now....the chrome back to one of my air pod filters came off today....guess all the gas flooding it was bad for the glue or something.....can't wait to get my friggin school check, fixing this bike would be easier with PARTS =p

 

so now we find out you have pods. There's a problem! Get rid of them.

Dave

 

YEP! I never thought to ask if you had pods, oh boy. yeah waaaayyyyyy to much air goin in, may not even be jetted for them, and IF they I'd say there is a 95% chance they jetted wrong. Dont even waste your time tryin to tune cause it aint gonna happen anyway, period.
#1 most-- MOST important, lets get the valves in spec, those items will be there this week we discussed.
get the carbs off and see what jets you have, under the diaphram too. post the numerical values you record for each number. then Ill send you a couple of drill bits to use as "jet gauges" to verify that the numerical value you record is indeed accurate (just send them back with the colortune)
Meanwhile we gotta find you an airbox and boots.
Beware of running the bike with a possibly tight valve, keep that in the front of your mind

 

oh yeah... any other mods? What exhuast do you have on there?

 

Actually,

From page 1 of the post, after OP updated the signature to read individually asperated carbs

I definitely agree with Dave that it would be better to put a stock airbox back on. Should be able to find an inexpensive one on ebay or some such place. But you still need to check your jets to see if they are stockers. If they aren't, you'll have to re-jet for the stock airbox.

 

Individually aspirated Carbs?

::: Individually Normally Aspirated Cylinders from Individually Air Filtered Carburetors :::

 

you know....I do have as a mod listing individually aspirated carbs....thought that was how to say it lol. Well, I found a air box in ebay with the chrome still on it for about 35 bucks, but I have no cash. When my school check gets here I'm going to continue working on the bike, but for now, all I can do is check specs and try to tune her....Thanks for the tip for the airbox, I was planning on getting one anyways, but the pods falling apart kinda pushed me in that direction. And theres no way the carbs are jetted properly for the pods, cause even tho my fuel level is PERFECT (I spent 5 hours tuning that) I'm getting waaay too much air. So I guess all I can do now is wait for my assistance stuff to get here so I can diagnose some issues, then make a list and be ready to spend some of that hard-earned financial aid =)

Thanks again for all the help guys, especially the ones that have pm'ed me!

 

You didn't answer this.

Since it took us four pages of playing "20 questions" to realize that you have an 8-valve AIRCOOLED bike with POD FILTERS, what other tuning-affecting mods might we be dealing with? A non-stock exhaust is a biggie...

And the advice to stop running the motor until you know where you're at valve-clearance wise is sound.

 

sorry I'm usually posting on the fly, I work a lot.....as far as i can tell the exhast is stock, except they cut the dampener out and cut the end into a slash tip

 

I should have asked off the jump. Not only that I let the individually aspirated thing go right on by without connecting the dots.
when they cut that exhaust they changed the back pressure as well, so we need to deal with that too.
let me check on something

 

hmm...sounds like I need some furthur tweaking then! One of our fellow forum members is coming over today, with tools, so I guess we'll see were we stand, with a more experienced and knowledgeable eye =)

 

So TIMEtoRIDE (Pete for those of you that know him) came by today ans helped me run through some basic diagnostics. I'll post the valve clearance test results later on, have some tech work to do first, but the results are promising.

My 4th cylinder is not firing on idle, but when revved on high rpms, seems to run fine, so Pete told me to clean the carbs thoroughly and is going to send me some information, with pictures, on what to clean specifically and where to find it.

Also, seems my throttle bar seals, or something, are possibly bad so those need to be replaced....I'm thinking of buying new carbs after pete's description of how complicated changing those would be....not sure at this point.

 

Now we're cookin.
Throttle shaft seals arem't as bad as you might think, and kinda sounds like you may have a slow or clogged pilot.
A proper cleaning will take you a loooong way.
You could tend to the cam chain tensioner while the carbs are off too, thats just me though, it would be one less thing to deal with later on and it'll keep you touching the bike while you wait on shims and an airbox.
My 2 cents is all

 

Understand this: You CAN'T buy new carbs. You can buy different carbs, which will be just as old as the ones you have now.

Will their throttle shaft seals be in better shape? Maybe; not for long; who knows? You can't "purchase" your way out of this.

If you truly do need thottle shaft seals, then it makes as much sense to rebuild the rack you have now as it does to buy another rack and end up rebuilding that one. You're going to have to rebuild one or the other; although it never hurts to have a spare set.

Face it: a bike this old means you've got some work to do, that's all there is to it. And unfortunately, you've got some mods to deal with, so the carbs have to be 100% before you enter that mode.

 

The bike's a bit rough cosmetically, but the engine seems 100% sound.

We started with the valve clearance check, and found 1 exhaust critically tight, at 0.003-.004 , and I explained how serious that is.

We didn't repeat the compression test, but the numbers would be higher with the throttle open and the battery boosted.

Upon starting, one carb was dripping fuel, the bike was warmed up and proceeded to sync. Turns out Brian did a pretty good sync with his oil-filled 4 tube devise, but I noticed that I couldn't get the levels to stay "level" with my Manometer, which helps to indicate the need for throttle shaft seals.

From the description of how the bike runs down the road, I believe the #4 cylinder comes alive under throttle, and that shows the idle/Pilot circuit is completely plugged in that carb. My infra-red thermometer showed 120* on #4.

The bike had a "hunting" idle, but it was idling on 3, without tuning the Pilots. We didn't get far into the tune-up, as the carbs needed to come off.

The exhaust is stock headers and collector box, with some rather open mufflers. The Pods are the cheap foam kind, and are falling apart (sorry!)
Brian wants to get an airbox, so there's no point in re-jetting.

Carb work is next, then a real tune-up !!

Another thing - I sprayed Ether into the foam of #4 expecting it to bark to life. It didn't.

 

A wise observation bigfitz, and duly noted...guess I'll buy the stuff to fix my carbs when I get some cash.

to skw: A clogged pilot is exactly what Pete was telling me, which of course is why I thought the cylinder wasn't firing, my whole reason for starting this particular topic. The spit test worked, but a laser thermometer gave me an actual number. When idling, the first three pipes were at around 150 or 160 i think, while the fourth was at 70 or 80.....pretty big difference. It would also explain why it bogs down so much.

The throttle shaft seals would explain why when I have the yiks tool in and my carb sync attached the bike goes up and down, up and down in rpms without touching the throttle.

Pete also noticed that my front fork seals are leaking, something I didn't know about at all. I had thought I just needed to bleed my front brakes, but he noticed the rotors had a film of fork oil on them. Excellent catch and good observation, didn't even think that was a problem. He mentioned boiling the brake pads in lemon juice to get the oil out until I can buy new ones. Guess it makes sense if you think about it, how many good quality cleaners have a citric acid base?

So long story short, fork seals need to be replaced, I need an air box, need to go down one shim on my first exhaust valve (they bun very easily and need to be replaced ASAP, I'm aware of that) throttle shaft seals need to be replaced, possibly need a new stator (still have to test that, I'll take the negative cable off my battery tomorrow while its running to see if I'm getting a charge since i don't have a multimeter) need to check my rear brake pads for de-lamination (thanks for the heads up on that too Pete) redo the float level on my carbs they're still a bit too high, clean my carbs THOROUGHLY, check my air/gas mixture screw with the colortune skw is going to let me borrow (thanks again man!) get a new choke cable, grease the throttle cable, install an in-line fuel filter, adjust my clutch, and then I can start on the cosmetics.

Sounds like that about covers it for a light-restoration. If anyone thinks theres a particular order, valve shims first of course, to go in, I'm all ears.

So here are the results of my valve clearance check with Pete today.

Intake
#1 Tight at .004 #1 passes at .003
#2 Tight at .004 #2 loosely passes at .003
#3 Passes at .004 #3 passes at .003
#4 Tight at .004 #4 tiht pass at .003


Exhaust
#1 Tight fail at .008 #1 fail at .006 #1 very tight pass at .004
#2 Tight pass at .008 #2 pass at .006 #1 loose pass at .003
#3 Tight pass at .008 #3 pass at .006
#4 pass at .008 #4 tight pass at .006

 

Your a good man TTR.

 

Yes he is, appreciate your time and knowledge man, not a lot of people are willing to help out for nothing more than a handshake and a thank you....Although once its road-worthy, I owe you a case of beer!

 

package is on the way bro. so looks like carb cleaning time

 

yup. The guy that runs this place has a very very old violin he's letting me re-store (seem to have a lot of fix-me-now projects this year) so i can learn to play, and the strings are trash....but I bet the smallest string would work like a charm to clean those tiny jets. So hopefully tomorrow, or this weekednd, I'll get some carb cleaner and hook my compressor up and go to town. Everything will be absolutely spotless. We're talking toothbrush on the float bowl, small wire through every hole and jet, carb cleaner sprayed through each hole like crazy followed by compressed air, followed by carb cleaner, followed by more compressed air, ect. You get the picture, church-of-clean is the phrase I believe. I need this baby running soon, school started today!

And it would be nice to get back to seeing my armor-making friend. Got a pair of mid-gothic period knees I was in the process of making that I'd really like to finish. Plus, I could make some custom side covers to help protect my jury-rigged electrical system.

What do you guys think of buying most of my electrical system and replacing it all back to stock? I think they changed the fuse box, my speedometer had the wires cut off it, and my petcock got the same treatment. most of my wires seem solid, good insulation and not much corrosion on the connectors, which makes me think they really did redo most of it

 

thanks again skw! once I clean the carbs, that color tune is going to be cool to use. I'm a tech guy, or in other words a geek, so i love neat technology. And the color tune qualifies!

 

and good luck with school this year. My daughter started back today (UWF)

I took her on the bike and that is one insane scene kids everywhere!

 

yeah, valencia west campus is pretty packed at the begging of the year too. Reminds me of my old overcrowded highschool.....thanks for the good luck. I got a pretty smart geek friend that works with me here, any problems I come across going for my programming degree he should be able to help. Just have to remember to do the homework and not forget about tests lol

 

NO - NO -STOP -STOP !!

You don't dis-connect the battery from a running motorcycle to check the alternator, and you don't jump from a running car either.

It can fry some of the delicate electronics on-board.

(and I called, too)

 

GET THIS GUY A MANUAL AND MAKE SURE HE READS IT, WILLYA?

 

phone is dead, sry lol. Ok, so i won't do that.....that was a trick mentioned by the harley mechanic btw, not something i would of done on my own. I'll wait until I have a multimeter....i think he has one somewhere in his shed...

 

See I warned you about those Hog mechs.

Don't forget to 'clunk' test your carbs and if they fail use some fine grit sandpaper to smooth them out. Multimeter's are really cheap you'll need one. Your wires might still be stock-depends on where the bike was stored. Mine just needed some cleaning where they connect. Petcock-yes back to original good idea. Speedometer-yes need one of those. Fuse box if it's new and it works it's ok. Custom side covers-why not.

Pilot on #4 sounds just like my #1 & #2 which had chunks of 'something' blocking them up and cold pipes. Research your carbs like you would one of your hard finals-after consulting about 3 or 4 sources and reading all the material there is, you will feel confident you can do anything to them. One warning: take one carb apart first and take notes/pictures and stay organized-this is a must do to prevent major frustration unless your a carb expert which I wasn't, but luckily I followed the advice given.

I did find some carbs for the 550's listed on ebay listed as NOS (new old stock) never before installed. They looked like it too (carb porn), and priced like it as well $999!! But bigfitz's point is spot on because all the parts in these old carbs can be replaced and after a complete cleaning and new parts as needed they ARE as good as new.

Good luck in your new semester and don't forget to study in-between wrenching 8⌐;

 

Well, I'm swamped for the next day or so, one of my web client's is pushing for a completed site much sooner than expected, and I've got some assignments to do, on top of building a database and integrating it with our untangle server and setting up an html face with login id's for the staff and board members to check info and such....*sigh* looks like i won't be touching the carbs until this weekend possibly. I'm going to miss my friday of golf too =(

 

There's been far, far worse bikes brought back to life here at XJBikes.
You absolutely NEED front brakes driving in Orlando, this might look tacky, but wrap the fork tubes with duct tape and terry cloth (to absorb any further fork oil) and de-grease your pads and your front brakes will work as-is, until you can tend to them properly.

 

thats the harley guys harley in the background btw, for anyone who's curious...

It's looking like this weekend I'll be cleaning my carbs. Gonna be a week or two until I get myself in a set schedule to deal with all the stuff I have to do everyday, especially since school just got tossed into the mix. But with a little help from google calender I'm expecting to have everything I need to make the bike 100% functional by mid-January, and finish with cosmetics by the end of February.

P.S. If you look closely you can see the sock I zip-tied over the first pod...the shiny back fell off =(

 

Alright ladies and gentlemen, got my clogged passage problem fixed, i didn't clean all the carbs however, still have a lot of work to do for a website so I didn't have time. I'm going to be rebuilding them pretty thoroughly once my school check gets here anyway and i won't be riding her very much since I only have to be on campus one day a week (and its a little cold right now).

So after adjusting my air/valve screws to all be the same, I rode her around a bit and she is MUCH more responsive now. I think I'm still a little lean, and I didn't do my spit test to see if my pipes are as hot as they should be, but like I said still have lots of work to do. I should be able to do those tests tomorrow after church.

On another note, I took the plug connector thing off the stator that was too big and swapped it with my melted one on the one that fits, and put my new rectifier in. Everything seems to be working and charging, but I won't know for sure until I get a multi-meter test done on her.

I've also lost another back to one of my pods....Looks like she'll have sock filters until I get my friggin check =(

Still have that long list of stuff to fix, but now she runs almost properly! Yay!
Thanks for all the help guys, I'm almost there!t

 

Got your package today skw, thank you very much! That colortune came right on time, I finally got around to cleaning my carbs today, and I'm going to be ding it again, more thoroughly, tomorrow. Success is within my grasp! XD

 

No problem. PM sent, check it out

 

Ok, so i know I haven't replaced the shim in my 1st exhaust valve, but its not super tight so i figured I'd try out the colortune just for fun. Being a geek, I love tech, and this thing is cool tech! I can't imagine anything easier to tune a carb-style motorcycle. So I did my first three carbs to see if it was going to let me tune them properly or if my pods were going to lean me out too much, and i went from an orange/slightly yellow to a nice blue, but i left a little orange in it just to make sure I'm compensating for the pods, since I don't have a dyno I can't be to sure that doesn't get too lean in high rpms.

When i got to the fourth cylinder, I got a nasty surprise....the cylinder still wasn't firing!

What I'd like to point out here about the colortuner is not only does it let you set your fuel/air mixture very easily, but it also tells you IF your cylinder is firing, and eliminates one of the hardest things to diagnose altogether. ELECTRIC PROBLEMS! I could see spark, which tells me my wire is fine and my coil is fine. So I have one of the three requirements for cylinder firing nailed down off the bat. Spark, fuel, and air.

So I cleaned the carb for that cylinder today, and I thought i did a fairly thorough job....but i guess i'm going to have to check it out again and clean some more.

skw....Thank you again for letting me use that nifty little tool! I would of drove myself nuts trying to figure out whether or not it was a electric problem for a while and wasted a bunch of time, and possibly money.

So tomorrow I'm going to be cleaning the carb again, but this time I'm printing out the more thorough instructions Pete linked me to (thanks Pete!) and take them with me to make sure i don't miss anything.

If there are any other reasons that my cylinder wouldn't be firing, aside from no spark and a plugged pilot jet (it fires on high rpms btw) I'd love to know about it! Thanks for all the help guys!

 

If it's firing at the higher rpms, you see spark but nada at Idle its in the pilot
hmm. Check that bowl, you got a tiny eeny little jet in the bowl itself, use carb cleaner (spray) and see if it shoots out like a water gun.. read the stuff on the link Time (Pete) gave you

 

you pull that mix screw and choke plunger to clean that carb? tiny stuff in ther be careful and DON'T get carb cleaner on any rubber o-ring. It'll get eat up