Clutch opinion

I am looking to see what you guys think about my situation, what could be wrong, and what order to go about fixing possible causes.

Before winter my '82 550 Seca had its starter solenoid and batter go bad. I threw in some fuel stable and put her away for the winter.

A few weeks back, I bought a new solenoid and borrowed my friends jumper box. She started up with a little hesitation (sat for 2 months), I ran it up and down the street once or twice. When I got back the bike was COVERED in oil. Checked oil level....WAY above normal. Did a drain of the oil to find what I would guess to be about 5 quarts or and oil/gas mix. Then, I realized that I had left the petcock on for the 2 months, and ruled that as the cause for now.

On to the clutch issue:

All that being said, my clutch which worked perfect last season with a new cable, is acting up. When I pull in on the clutch (while running) the bike jerks forward in pulses, so it isn't fully disengaging the clutch. And on top of that, when i release the clutch in or out of gear the clutch lever only goes about half way back to normal engaged position. I have tightened the cable as much as possible to correct the pulsing in gear issue with no results.

Now to my question(s):

Could gas being mixed with the oil sitting on the clutch for so long caused problems?

Are the clutch springs just bad or do I need to replace the whole clutch?

What signs for damage should I look for when taking apart the clutch?


All help is appreciated and I thank you all in advance.

 

Question #1: Yes. But it matters not, see below.

Question #2: If they're the original springs, they need to be replaced. If they're the original friction plates, they need to be replaced. Thirty years of sitting in oil have turned the friction pads into a collection of little squares of linoleum.

Question #3: As far as damage, you'e looking for scored, galled, or burnt blue plain plates. If they're ok, with just the remnants of the friction pads etched into them, then they can be cleaned up with Scotchbrite and re-used. You also need to inspect the basket and hub for "divots" from the plates. Polished spots are inevitable; but if they've become actual divots it's time to get on eBay and find some lower-mileage parts. (Clutches=cheap.)

Good thing you asked though. The 550's clutch has some ODDBALL parts, and the manuals don't sufficiently cover the intracacies of reassembly.

That's why you'll need to read THIS carefully: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=29541.html

One more thing: your gas in the oil problem cannot be blamed on the petcock. You HAVE A FLOAT ISSUE. If the floats were working correctly, you could have left the petcock on PRI for four months with no issues (don't ask. Just say I'm not as young as I once was.) The petcock provided the means; your floats let you down.

Let me know if you have any more clutch questions. I've done more 550 clutches than I can count.

FITZ' RECOMMENDED 550 CLUTCH: Original plain plates, either OE or re-use your originals; "aftermarket" friction plates from XJ4Ever and new OEM springs.

Oh, and if you feel like rebuilding that petcock just because: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=25058.html

 

So I do need to rebuild my clutch to fix this issue. I will read your work through very carefully and follow your recommendations. Thank you for your help and I will keep updated.

As for the floats, what would be wrong and what means of fixing them do you recommend? My guess is they need adjusting for amount of fuel stored in the bowls?


EDIT:

I must say, that was a great walkthrough and makes me a lot more comfortable doing a rebuild. Great quality pictures. Again I thank you for you input.

 

Either
A: Your float levels are VERY high

or

B (and more likely if they are the originals): Your float needles have worn to the point that they do not seal properly

or

C: Your float needles were stuck in a position high enough to let fuel flow into the cylinders

 

I didn't think there could be too much that could be wrong with them. I will look into that after the clutch issue.

 

You are more than welcome. Poke through "XJ FAQ Suggestions." I've done articles on everything i can think of to fill the gaps in the books, both factory and aftermarket. Most of the stuff applies to all XJs, some of it is 550 Seca-specific. Even the ones that apply to all models were done using one of my 550 Secas. Valve adjustments are covered, a very important and popular topic: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=14827.html

Check THIS one: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=31872.html Or this one: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=14948.html

Or if you wanna get REAL: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=2 ... uster.html

You might have noticed I have this "thing" about the 550 Secas; they sure are cool when you get them right, as you can see; I sure love mine--

My '83:




And my '81:

 

It's not that there's anything "wrong" with them.

THEY'RE OLD. Please don't trust your life to them.

 

Thank you for the links! I will surely be following a bunch of them in the months to come!

 

So, while waiting for the clutch friction plates to show up (today), I took the lever off the throughout shaft and tried to reposition.

Actually while writing this I realized I forgot to throw the E clip back on the throughout shaft.....found it got it back on

Anywho, that did solve my clutch issue. Why I didn't think to try that before I posted I do not know. On the bright side I have a new set of friction plates to put in her when I please, probably soon.

Now my next thing will be to check those damned floats. If anyone knows off hand a good link on here to some specs that they could post really quick that would be great. I will be doing my own searches, but any help getting to a good one would help.

Thanks again guys.


EDIT: found the float level section of a carb rebuild thread

 

yeah except it is likely for Hitachis and the Mikuni spec is different PLUS for the Mikunis, the spec is "tighter" it's +/- 1mm.

Check your book.

Replace the clutch springs when you replace the friction plates.

Meanwhile get after the brakes. Seriously.

 

I am still waiting on the springs...should have been here yesterday!

I did find all the specs on the floats, I will be doing those soon as well.

All the mechanics of the bike will be coming before any cosmetics, just a matter of money as I am also in the process of buying a house. So, I am buying what I can when I can.

 

Don't ride it until the brakes are rebuilt. Hospital co-pays are even more expensive than new brake lines.

(If you'd ordered your parts from XJ4Ever, they'd all be there by now.)

 

I just ordered new tires, when the wheels come off for replacement of the rubber brake rebuilds ARE in order. Not like they are hard to get to, but yes they will be done "while you're there" no worries fitz, I do appreciate the fellow XJ-er concerns.

As always I appreciate all of your help.

 

Not so much concerns, as trying to save you some grief.

Replace the pads, the caliper will start hanging up.

Rebuild the caliper, the master cylinder will start giving you issues.

Now you're on your second or third bleed, (major PIA) and you still need lines. Pop a line, and bad things happen.

And be sure to check the rear shoes for delamination, it's wayyy too common and can drop you on your butt.

Better to do it once and do it right. Thirty year old bikes are great, but they can also be dangerous if you're not sensible about it.

 

Alright fitz...

Spent the afternoon following your clutch rebuild walkthrough and now it is slipping like crazy. Replaced friction plates, springs, bolts and washers. It is either not disengaging enough (creeping forward) or slipping like a SOB, no matter how I adjust the cable.

I followed your instructions perfectly...What is going wrong? Did I miss something or read it incorrectly??

EDIT: The one thing I am concerned about is one friction plate has a notch in one of the outer metal flanges. I didn't notice anything different other than that. Could this be the "special" one you were speaking of? I put it in last, would that cause these issues? Also, I am pretty sure I got the boss spring in the correct spot, I think it would be the 4 piece in as you disassemble?

OH AND ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO SHIFT TO NEUTRAL!

 

You missed something. It's put together wrong or it would work flawlessly.

One possibility: The clutch boss spring goes "inside" a friction plate that has a slightly larger ID than the others.

If you just shoved the clutch boss spring back in between two normal friction plates, that's wrong. It fits INSIDE the special one. You'll need to CAREFULLY COMPARE the friction plates; the only one with a slightly larger ID is the special one.

Another REAL GOOD possibility: You didn't align the dot in the pressure plate with the dot cast into the basket. THIS IS BEAUCOUP IMPORTANT.

Did you carefully follow the directions for repositioning the lever, as illustrated?

I suspect the clutch boss spring is wedged between two regular friction plates though. Not good. Take it back apart.

 

I did make sure to align the dots when installing. The only thing is that I think could be messed up would be the boss spring.

I did try to compare the discs but found no difference in OUTER diameter besides the notch, and I couldn't see how that would affect anything.

Now you said INNER diameter, which I should have taken a minute to inspect either way, and that I did not check. That must be the root of the evil slipping.

Fingers crossed....thanks again!

 

Good catch. I fixed it. Thanks. It IS "ID" not "OD" they all have the same OD. The one with the notch might be the special plate, hence the notch.

 

Yes, so I should have caught that but, didn't even cross my mind to check the inner since you said outer. Now I'm willing to bet that is the special one...

I will update tomorrow with hopefully good results.

 

It was the notched/special disc in the wrong spot causing the problem. She is running perfectly.

My tires should be in Monday. Then comes fork seals, brakes, and possibly new speedo.

 

get yourself a Clymer manual M387 Yamaha xj550, xj600 & fj600 - 1981-1992 - I refer to it all the time - good luck